Block Filler in KA?

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lexcrob
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Block Filler in KA?

Postby lexcrob » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:20 pm

Came across it other day been reading up on some motor buildin books. I also just finished a NVH (noise vibration and harshness) class for subaru- learned bunch of mombo jumbo about harmonics/ mass dampers /sirometer<look it up!


Anyways down to my thoughts:

I guess ka has high rpm problems due to its essentially vibrating apart partially due to a poor balanced crank. So mass dampens vibration why not block filler. Of course this will be a street car so maybe halfway up?

I did a little research on it and i guess its pretty much just cement. Motul race NA scca what ever car put it in their corrolla race engine. It supposed to help stabilize cylinders not only making them "stronger but also keeping bores aligned creating a better seal=more power.

In reality the 80$ hard block or what ever maybe gains of: GUESSING NOT AN ENGINEER or engine builder
- 1-5 hp under certain conditions (better seal)
- 10% stronger bottom end
- based on weight of cement eh....get ya to 8k rpm
- maybe make 91.5 bore a little more boost friendly


Probly a waste what you guys think. :poke:


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Re: block filler in KA?

Postby lexcrob » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:54 am

No love^

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Re: block filler in KA?

Postby WDRacing » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:24 am

Im not really up to speed on block filling, but don't you fill up the oil drain passages? That seems like a bad idea to me, especially since I think the KA suffers from lube issues as is. That's just my .02 btw. I've seen to many KA's with rod knock or tossing the #3 all together.

WD

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby Razi » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:09 pm

MotoIQ did something similar (or maybe the same?) for their VG30DETT build.

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles ... art-1.aspx

Scroll down to about half way down the page, they talk about filling the water passage ways with metal epoxy.
I'm not sure that's a good idea for the KA.

Also, here is part 2, because it's also filled with nice information like part 1. :)
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles ... art-2.aspx

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby lexcrob » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:00 pm

^ dear god what are they building

HANDS DOWN BEST ARTICLE IVE EVER READ ON ENGINE REBUILDING!

Anyways i guess its really uncharted territory even over at old hondatech. Seems its reserved for maximum output super engines with gobs of funding. Although motoiq used it in their NA corrolla motor? Im guessing it will become more popular as 2000hp AMS GTR/600 hp super street civic street car lol..... etc. super cars get built and built faster blahhh $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I guess we can shut down the thread as lack of R&D which is yet to be funded. for now....


cheers,

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby WDRacing » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:20 am

I don't see block filler as a viable option for the KA. Simply not worth it IMHO.

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby superDorifto » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:57 pm

lexcrob wrote:^ dear god what are they building

HANDS DOWN BEST ARTICLE IVE EVER READ ON ENGINE REBUILDING!

Anyways i guess its really uncharted territory even over at old hondatech. Seems its reserved for maximum output super engines with gobs of funding. Although motoiq used it in their NA corrolla motor? Im guessing it will become more popular as 2000hp AMS GTR/600 hp super street civic street car lol..... etc. super cars get built and built faster blahhh $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I guess we can shut down the thread as lack of R&D which is yet to be funded. for now....


cheers,
I take it you were not into cars back when sport compact car was still around....

Mike was a writer and I believe Editor in CHief of the mag for a while - his personal Z32 was bonkers overbuilt and everything under the hood was powder coated, color coordinated and hella fresh JDM.

Mike Kojima was and is very well known for having a soft spot for VGs and 300ZXs...and for overbuilding the s*** out of them. I would not dare knock him, but most of the info in that article is common knowledge/practice if your re building a motor that you don't want to grenade when you dump a ton of power into it.

The cryo treat is a bit much, but the coolant flow issue is a pretty well known issue for VGs.

I wish there were more KA builds of that calibur.....like there used to be.....back in the day....guess I'm a cranky old f***.

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby WDRacing » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:17 am

The Chinese aftermarket parts changed the entire import community forever...

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby superDorifto » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:54 pm

But SCC was required reading.

If it werent for that mag I would not be into cars....

Hell, I wouldn't be an engineer.

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby lexcrob » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:59 pm

I pretty much missed sport compact car and the whole grassroots vibe. Im now lost in a sea of chinese 1 pass run for a few months sr20 slap in kid toy cars. Ok that was a little rough but i feel you guys. Lately ive been reading books trying to play catch up. Lots of this stuff like above isnt really documented and if it was and is now lost on the web. I also would love to see builds like this more often!!!! I more or less like it to be financially friendly with some kinda budget tho. Seems people would rather just drop off their engine off at the machine shop and have them build it today.

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby superDorifto » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:23 pm

You should try to get some back issues.

THere was a definite decline when super street hit the scene. I remember SCC building budget cars that we actually cared about, and SS featuring bondo covered hondas with giant parkbench wings. When SCC folded they sort of filled the gap with project car magazine, but its not the same - they cut way too many corners and dont have the same level of technical knowledge.

My favorite part of SCC was Dave Coleman's opening column - titled Techno Babel. He would pick a different automotive engineering topic every month and basically give you a college level lecture for free on some mystery of making a car perform better.

- suspension geometry
- fuel stoiciometry (spelling?)
- functional aero
- how a rotary actually worked

He even invented a very important suspension parameter - In his artical about suspension geometry he described the imaginary axis throught the control arm mount points, down through the tire's actual contact patch, and its effect on handling if it was moved relative to other known static points.

He couldn't find a name for it anywhere, so he named it after himself - "The Dave Point"

You really got the feeling reading that mag that you had editors that actually gave a sit about the community and real performance - not bandwagon trends and s***.

Grassroots is still pretty good, but is even less accessible to the common "non-nerd/engineer" Hell some of those articles confuse me.

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Re: Block Filler in KA?

Postby lexcrob » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:34 pm

I talked to the machine shop doing my engine about block filler. They use it all the time and are familiar with it and have tried my above theory. Needless to say RACECAR ONLY!

They said they def. tried it and you CANNOT sit in traffic at all. Filling it up halfway even would equal failier. So needless to say nobody do this one , it sounded like a win at least. Also while im on block work i shot around the idea on torque plates to every machine shop ive called. I read couple articles even came across hot boring and honing and its all HYPE. In the end its an attempt to recreate block distortion like running conditions.....It does not matter (maybe for a nascar F1 car...or NHRA) NOT for a street car your wasting your money! Now as far as different ways to set up for a bore and hone VERY crutial. Im still a little sketch but my favorite talk with a shop owner/machinist/fabrication guru/computer science guy ended like this

"engine building is a VERY sloppy process in terms of percision in all honesty thats why its considered almost art".


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