Blackstone Labs Oil Analysis Results-Redline 10w-40 1996 q45

[qship96]

Well guys,here it is as promised! A little background on this test-oil in use 7103 miles and 97 days from start of summer til start of fall-hot Balt/Wash area-70% highway commuting at 80-95mph and 30% typical stop/go suburban.Oil was Redline 10w-40,filter 60u00.Blackstone comments were engine/oil operating fine and could stretch interval to 8000 miles under these operating conditions. 199,985 miles on motor at time of sampling

Test numbers:all reported in Parts per millionAluminum-2Chrome-0Iron-13copper-1lead-10tin-3molybdenum-652nickel-0manganese-0silver-0titanium-0potassium-2boron-18silicon-11sodium-18calcium-2742magnesium-10phosphorus-1007zinc-1220barium-0

SUS viscosity at 210F was 73.4 {10w-40 should be between 65-76}flashpoint-385fuel < 0.5%antifreeze- 0.0%water- 0.0%insoluables 0.4% {should be below 0.6 if oil filter is doing its job}TBN-1.7 {oil should be changed if drops below 1.0}

Modified by qship96 at 1:45 AM 10/5/2007
Modified by qship96 at 10:07 AM 10/5/2007

[StarPD]

I can't comment on all of the trace metals in the oil, but the copper seems low, especiallly if compared against the silicon (dirt). Copper is used as an extreme pressure protectant for such things as camshafts and bearings. Perhaps other metals are used in this formulation to accomplish the same protection.

Not sure what the high calcium reading is from.

It will be interesting to see how subsequent analyses turn out.

[qship96]

George,here is where it gets tricky,and one has to know the "signature" of the particular brand of oil they are trying to read-for example,Redline uses a huge dose of moly as a antiwear ingredient,and much higher than average amounts of calcium,phosphorus,and zinc in its additive package.Copper can be either wear of bronze bushings/bearings or used as an additive of some brands of oil-Redline has 0.0 ppm as an additive.

As far as silicon,virgin{un-used,new}oil tests of Redline show anywhere from 6-12ppm,making reading the used oil sample tricky if one does not take this into consideration when trying to determine if the silicon number in their used oil analysis is dirt ingression into the motor from poor air filteration or airbox leakage,or part of that oil brands unique signature.This is my 7th analysis on this motor covering aprox from 135,000 miles til now at 200,000-looking at the results over this time period using the same oil,I see no upwards trending of wear at all-I guess thats a good thing!

[StarPD]

qshyip, you wrote in part:

"George,here is where it gets tricky,and one has to know the "signature" of the particular brand of oil they are trying to read"

You are correct. Thjat's why anyone who wants to understand their poil analisis should submit a fresh unused sample of exactly the oil they intend to use.

High silicon does indeed signify ingestion of dirt somewhere, whether through the intake system, the oil change process, or a leaking gasket somewhere. I didn't see your silicon as high, just that it was higher than copper. If you've researched the formulation of the oil you're using, and are satisfied with it, that's what really matters.

Maybe your posting will encourage others to start an oil analysis program with their Q. While I rarely recommend it as a long term process because of the expense, a few samples to establish a baseline (after one of a fresh unused sample) followed occasionally to monitor the wear process is a good idea for anyone who plans to keep their car for a long time.

[3Q Jay]

thanks qship for posting up.how many miles on sample?did you have Terry read this one?

i note that your vh45de does not appear to throw any nickel, my vh41 also does not, and the blacq vh45 (only one sample to date on each of those) also does not.but silver's vh45 has read 3ppm and 2ppm.

zerothread?id=221872

did you run a BG44K? lead/iron is a bit higher than i would have expected but i don't say that it is an anomaly, just curious.

like you said, some engines and oils appear to have a signature.
Modified by 3Q Jay at 9:11 PM 10/4/2007

[qship96]

3q Jay, 7103 miles on this sample-I did not have Terry read this sample,as results are very similar to other samples from this engine he has advised me on.Lead is slightly elevated,my motor seems to vary from 3ppm up to about 11ppm lead based on who knows what-injector cleaner seems to spike the number.Iron number is consistant with the Redline oil signature for some reason, virgin RL oil shows 3-7ppm-so if you subtract that out,the iron wear is really lower than it appears.

[3Q Jay]

good, clean motor. kkep taking care of her!

[StarPD]

3q Jay, 7103 miles on this sample-I did not have Terry read this sample,as results are very similar to other samples from this engine he has advised me on.Lead is slightly elevated,my motor seems to vary from 3ppm up to about 11ppm lead based on who knows what-injector cleaner seems to spike the number.Iron number is consistant with the Redline oil signature for some reason, virgin RL oil shows 3-7ppm-so if you subtract that out,the iron wear is really lower than it appears.

Yes.That's why it's a good idea to send in a sample of exactly the brand, kind, type, and weight of oil you intend to use. Having a baseline to compare against gives a clearer picture of components that might otherwise appear high. Refiners add a number of metals and chemicals that can make an analysis seem to show elevated levels of some things that are actually part of the additive package.

First time I did an analysis of crankcase oil from my first Suzuki GS1100 in 1980, it showed elevated levels of copper and silver. I panicked, thinking that the copper was from something wearing, but the silver baffled me. Conversation with the analyst revealed that the maker of my oil added copper as an extreme pressure protectant for cams and lifters. I also learned that at the time, Suzuki used roller bearing cranks, and silver plated the roller cages to act as a lubricant for the rollers and help seat them in, and also to aid in heat transfer. As the engine aged, the silver content diminished. Those roller bearing cranks were something else. Never had the slightest problem with any of my Suzukis. I was disappointed when roller bearing cranks became too expensive, and Suzuki went to plain bearing cranks.

Many modern engines use molybdenum coated rings, so high moly content isn't significant in newer engines. Also, newer engines will, if properly broken in, show slightly elevated iron content from cylinder wear, moly rings notwithstanding. So high moly and iron in new engines isn't necessarily a bad sign, but they should be monitored to ensure that those levels drop as the engine seats itself in. Any other high levels of material should be watched closely, especially silicon (dirt), which can migrate into the engine from a number of sources.

As I've stated before, oil analysis, especially engine oil, but also trans and diff lube is a good idea if one wants to make sure everything is doing well inside of the engine and driveline components, where you can't see, and where waiting until a bad noise occurs is usually too late. Once a baseline is established however (after readings from fresh unused oil is done), analysis doesn't have to be done at every OCI, just occasionally to keep an eye on things.

[qship96]

What I hope others here will see is that extended oil changes promoted by certain oil makers and auto companys {BMW,VW,etc} must be validated in YOUR specific engine based on YOUR driving habits and age/condition of individual engine..... In my example,I am running a top of the line,group 5 ester based true synthetic, $9-$10/quart oil that based on TBN is shot by 8000-8500 miles in my engine and driving pattern- I cringe to think of someone using a basic $2-3$/quart dino oil from walmart doing 7500 mile/6 month changes on an older g50 motor.