Black smoke and valvetrain chatter during cold start-up (2006 Infiniti M45)

[Grayghost]

06 M45 - About once every other month my car smokes terribly bad and my valves make so much noise it sounds as though motor has no oil. After the car runs for about 30 seconds, everything is back to normal. This only happens when I first start the car for the day. The rest of the day the car is fine. I have had my car over 1 year and this has happen about 5 or 6 times so far. The dealer says this is normal. I have 20k on the odometer. Has anyone else experienced this problem?

[Teknic73]

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

EVERYDAY = '03 M45

[CakeDaddy]

EVERYDAY = '03 M45

LOL speak for yourself. My 03 runs dreamy!

As for the clicking/chatter, I'd say replace or charge the battery. My battery was near dead after my car sat for approx 3-4 weeks and when I went to start it up it made that ugly valve sound as if the car wasn't firing on all cylinders.

As for the black smoke; if you dealer is telling you "this is normal" pimp slap'em two times for me. That sheit aint normal!
Modified by CakeDaddy at 3:11 PM 9/25/2007

[lfj2025]

I had the valvetrain chatter once, it scared the crap out of me. Gone within 30 seconds and has never happened again. I think the "brain" was out of sync and what I heard was real bad spark knock. Called the dealer of course he had never heard of anything like what I heard.

Normally my car is very quite at start up no matter how long it sits.

[szh]

1. The clicking and clatter is a battery issue or a carbon build-up issue. I had exactly the same thing happen a few weeks ago ... the battery is simply not providing enough oomph to the starter. Change the battery out. In my case, the local Infiniti dealer gave me credit for the fact that it had not gone the full length of the battery life expectancy. I paid $80 for a new Nissan.Infiniti battery including the few minutes of labor to put it in - they also covered the flat-bed to the dealer, since my car would not start at all after a few of the above symptoms.

2. Black smoke may be carbon build-up, but this is a SWAG. Try one of two things. In neutral, run it up to 6000 rpm and hold it there for a few minutes or more - there is a TSB out on this approach. You may see some stumbling and some more black smoke, but it should get better. If this is not enough, then a BG-44K session is needed! Surprisingly enough, using injector cleaner also helps remove some of this carbon buildup inside the engine.

Don't baby your car, guys! A few WOT's are needed every now and then. Babying the car is what leads to the build-up in the first place.

Z

[cremecreme]

Yeah it happens when you drive short distances and constantly cut it off....like to run in the store, run back home....you have to get out there and unleash the beast....that is what my engine told me!!!!!

[Grayghost]

Thanks guys! It's definitely not the battery. The engine cranks fine. The noise sounds like a "chatter/clacking" associated with bad values and lifters (similiar to way old 80's overhead value engines use to sound when the values/lifters needed to be adjusted). Not a dead battery "clicking" noise caused by the starter not getting enough juice. But after 30-45 seconds it goes away. The dealer said that all the oil drains to the pan overnight and it takes few moments before the oil is pumped through out the engine during crank-up.

The smoke has something to do with noise because it only smokes when the engine makes the mysterious noise. I'll just have to live with it. It only happens once in awhile.

P.S. My "M" sees 85+ MPH several times a week.

[Mark Linkous]

For what is worth, 34,000 miles with no clatter/smoke. To say I think about it is true. That being said, it seems the RMS (rear main seal) problem going on in 911 land just might be worse. Maybe simply due to many more being built, it seems like a shocking percentage have that plague.Fingers crossed and sold before powertrain warranty endsM.L

[Teknic73]

LOL speak for yourself. My 03 runs dreamy!

As for the clicking/chatter, I'd say replace or charge the battery. My battery was near dead after my car sat for approx 3-4 weeks and when I went to start it up it made that ugly valve sound as if the car wasn't firing on all cylinders.

As for the black smoke; if you dealer is telling you "this is normal" pimp slap'em two times for me. That sheit aint normal!

Modified by CakeDaddy at 3:11 PM 9/25/2007

let me clarify this. I only have clatter NO SMOKE. I have brand new battery. The clatter happens when the engine has sat for a long period.

[szh]

let me clarify this. I only have clatter NO SMOKE. I have brand new battery. The clatter happens when the engine has sat for a long period.

Then, you most likely have the other cause: carbon buildup and you need to follow the TSB attempt, and then a BG-44K session. Please let us know how that goes!

My 2003 M45 always runs very smoothly, with only a few occasions that I have seen and cured with BG-44K (once with the Nissan equivalent sold by the dealers).

Z

[lfj2025]

I know I'm going to get slammed for this but, just for kicks try this next time, listen closly to the clatter, do you remember the first time you heard spark knock? With newer cars spark knock is unheard of. I don't know about the others but that's what mine sounded like. Two weeks before I heard my clatter I had driven to KC (1,100 miles round trip) and my battery is fairly new.I have never heard the noise but the one time.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong just suggesting something different.

Modified by lfj2025 at 4:55 AM 9/27/2007
Modified by lfj2025 at 4:56 AM 9/27/2007

[myother45isalesbaer]

Black smoke from almost all internal combustion engines is an indication of too rich a fuel mixture. Computer??

Valve noise I had at start-up due to being a quart down, letting it sit several days. As soon as I topped it off, no more valve noise on start up.

I wonder if on yours the two aren't related due to some type of electronic issue.

[MaxBolus]

fwiw, I also occasionally get the valve clatter noise on startup, but can not relate it to how long the car sat, or any other conditions. This has happened maybe 5-6 times in 3 1/2 years.and also get the occasional smoke, but it is usually lighter colored, not black. This is more frequent, maybe once a month or so.Never asked the dealer about it..

finally, if I jump on the throttle just after starting the car, it pings/knocks like a '70 Ford Country Squire, but a mile or so down the road all is quiet. My neighbors probably think it's a real rattletrap

[myother45isalesbaer]

A little blue now and then won't hurt anything. A lot of black for a long time will. Jumping on the throttle with a cold motor and without giving it a minute or so to let the oil pressure get up to specs will ruin any motor.

Suggestion....don't do that 1 mile thing. Pings and knocks are indications something is not right. Too low on the octane rating? Maybe you need to get the computer checked? Those are not good noises.

Best regards. I honestly hope you don't blow that motor before you find out what is wrong.

[MaxBolus]

good point..but I was exaggerating a bit for comic effect

it's not like I fire it up and plant the pedal. I drive pretty sedately on my street, about a quarter mile to the main road. That's when I like to punch it, but I do back off if/when I hear the clatter.

but again, I never raised this issue at the dealer cause I figured it was just a cold engine complaining. Never hear this noise otherwise.

thanks!

[myother45isalesbaer]

Got it. I am sometimes way too serious about cars. Guess that goes back to my muscle car days and hanging around English Town, NJ.

Given the time from start up to giving it some full juice all you should be hearing is a nice smooth engine peeking out as the tach revs up.

If you are getting tapping, rapping or anything else of that nature......please have it checked out.

Any M45 vintage 2003-2004 when warmed up properly and running the right fuel, with the stupid traction contol off, should be able to get out of the gate and smoke the tires for at least 40 feet. It should do so with not knocks, pings or other "funny" engines sounds.........just tires smoking!!!

[HolySh*t]

I also have the smoke issue. My dealer says this is normal. IDoes anyone experi also see the smoke when I brake hard and come to a complete stop. I see a puff of smoke come out the exhaust. I have seen that occur on several other M45's in my area.

I have used BG44k but the problem is still there. I must admit szhosain, I baby my car alot. Not because i am scared of messing it up but because I am never in a rush so i just drive speed limit. I will start pressing hard on the gas pedal on straight ways and dry weather.

Hope that may be the cause.

[myother45isalesbaer]

HolySh*t,

You sure that isn't some smoke coming off the tires as the ABS kicks in and out on those hard stops? A little blue smoke out the tail pipes every once and awhile is nothing to worry about. Blue smoke all the time is an indication of some potentially serious engine wear.

[gregorylew]

I recently had the same thing on my 06 M45. It sat for 2 weeks.

It sounded like a diesel upon start up. I called the dealer and had them tow it in. It sounded like it was oil starved. The dealer could not replicate the problem. I am hoping to never hear it again.

[lfj2025]

I now have 61,000 on my M and have only had it happen once. I can't prove it but i don't think it's a oil problem. Maybe the guys who know the inside of these motors can explain how oil can not move in the motor if there is the correct amount of oil in the motor.Don't be mad at me but I still believe it's a timing issue (brain out of sync).

[szh]

Ummm ... I still strongly lean towards the carbon build-up as being the culprit. The few times (two or three ... now at just under 60k miles) I have had this noise, the BG-44K treatment has eliminated it!

Sometimes, a few WOT's (let the engine warm up first!) will clear it up too, and other times it takes more effort (BG-44K, etc.)

Z

[xerexabante]

they should try to rev the motor at 6000rpm for 2-3 mins. to get the carbon build up if it goes away with this method it is carbon build up, then follow with bg flush.

i had the blueish smoke and oil consumption at start up just used 10-40 oil then the issue went away.

[F1SportsFan]

I had the dealership doing oil consumption tests on my car when this happened. It was low on oil, but it turned out to be the last straw. Ended up getting the engine replaced under warranty, hopefully this is not the case for your car!

[Q45tech]

The new newer 4.5 is very different fom the old 90-96 4.5.The use of low tension rings and semi-solid bucket lifters make this more powerful engine finicky to say the least in proper fuel and warm up proceedures.

[aordonio]

i've had same issue with my FX.

occurs when i don't drive the car for a few days.

from my understanding its related to TSB ITB01029 OR amended TSB ITB02-049.

dealer put the vehicle on oil consumption test since the car can be burning oil too.

[mazz]

i have owned 3 q45 and this m35 if i shut off the car after running less than a minute like backing out of garage to wash itthen next day when i start the car i get that 30 seconds of hell alsosince it is the same on v8 and v6 i think it is a infiniti issue never had any damage that i am aware of