big brakes in the back?

[-RJ-]

ill post it here because you guys are like my bestest friends evar

will the vert front brakes work on the back?
Modified by -RJ- at 10:27 PM 4/14/2008

[biggie]

I don't know of a way they would.

Only brakes I would think of in the rear would be Z32.

[94_240sx]

I don't think front calipers will fit in the back. Why do you need it? z32 brake is not easy because you need a whole thing for e-brake. Here's another option. STK rear brake. You use 240 rear calipers with brackets. Rotors are from Mustang Cobra rear. Reviews are bad though.

http://phase2motorsports.store....html

[biggie]

That^ doesn't look like any advantage over stock sized slotted/x-drilled rotors and good pads on the OEM caliper.

[94_240sx]

That^ doesn't look like any advantage over stock sized slotted/x-drilled rotors and good pads on the OEM caliper.

Idea is... You have more grip when caliper sits further away from the center.

[Hijacker]

Idea is... You have more grip when caliper sits further away from the center.

Eh?

Usually when you up the size of the rotor like that, you're trying to disperse the heat more and keep temps down. A larger surface area from a larger rotor like that takes longer to heat up, keeping your pads from heat fading. However, on the rear you won't see that much advantage just because of how little the rear brakes do to stop the car.

Personally, if you're going to upgrade the rears, you're best bet is to use Z32 rear brakes. And it's not that big of a pain, you just need to do some research and make sure you have all the parts you need in advance before you start tearing into the rear.

The bare minimum should be:caliperdust shield/e brake backing platee brake assye brake cable (2+2 is slightly longer than a 2 seater Z, but you will still have to route it through the subframe)Z32 brake lines (SPL has the best deal on SS lines that will flawlessly mate the Z caliper to the 240 hardline)Z32 rotor (Heavy Throttle has these pre-drilled for 4 lug)

You don't NEED the aluminum upright as you can bolt all the Z stuff to. However, a word to the wise is to clean out the big hole that the long e brake pivot thingy slides through. The steel uprights tend to collect dirt and rust in that hole and if you don't clean it out good enough, your pivot becomes a press fit. One of mine will have to be cut out of the spindle because of that fact.

Skyline e-brake cables will bolt up to the stock 240 routing from what I understand, but because of the cost, I opted for Z 2+2 cables (I paid $20 for my pair)

And be ready to possibly replace the front e-brake cable for the handle. My car was a Jersey car originally and the salt had fused the rear cables to the front cable. I had to cut the old cables out and replace the front one. And that's not fun because it's riveted to the handle. Thankfully the new cable has a rivet already installed, but pressing it into shape can be a bit tricky.

In the end, I only did the rear upgrade for aesthetic reasons. Also, I did it to make 100% certain that the Z master cylinder was working with a full Z setup to ensure optimal fluid pumping. I think if you left the rears stock, the Z master cyilnder would still work fine in keeping the brakes from being touchy. If it's still acting kind of funny, just place a proportioning valve inline for the rear to turn the pressure down on them.

[94_240sx]

I wonder why RJ wants big brakes in the rear. z32 front and back or Infitini Q brake conversion are common and easy way to go for 240.

[-RJ-]

I wonder why RJ wants big brakes in the rear. z32 front and back or Infitini Q brake conversion are common and easy way to go for 240.

i figured if i put big brakes in the front, why not the rear? well im assuming that the front brakes wont work lol

thanks guys

[Loki]

Let's say you have bigger brakes in front, smaller brakes in back. Under heavy braking, the smaller brakes need more force to lock the wheel, right? Which would mean the rear wheels won't lock and lose control. So if you have stocks in the back and Z32 or something up front, it'd be less total stopping power, but safer, yeah? I'm not too knowledgeable on this but I think stock rear brakes with bigger front brakes would be just fine for anything short of autocross.

[GoinTopless240]

Brake pressure front and rear are not really effected by each other in quite that way.. Rear brakes are mainly designed to keep rear behind you in heavy braking situation. The proportioning valve does a good bit of work to keep balance... having the rears outstop the fronts would not be a good thing in the wet....rear would come around in hard braking situation... fronts should always stop better... larger rotors do make more heat, but stop better because of more surface area in each tire revolution (think longer distance around bigger circle). Keeps heat down and gives more braking for same effort... just my .02.. I was thinking of Z32 all around and just using Hydralic e-brake.. have to research if system has fail safe feature... like lock on pressure loss..

[Loki]

So yeah. Z32 fronts and stock rears would kind of be the best of both worlds. Greater stopping power, less chance of rear lockup.

[ishkabibble]

Larger rotor =

Usually more pad to rotor contact surface areaMore leverage since the clamping force is applied further out from the centerBetter heat dissipation

You are going to need some seriously huge arse rear brakes in order to get the rear to lock up before the front.

Unless you are building a race car, I suggest doing the Q45 or J30 front brake conversion, getting Brembo blanks and decent pads for the rear, and calling it a day.

[Hijacker]

The main issue with using Z fronts and stock rears is this:

you either use the stock MC and have proper rear biasing and proportioning, but your fronts become touchy and tend to lock up under heavy braking (think panic stop because some douchenozzle in front of you decided he had to stop NOW for no reason at all). Your rears will brake like they did stock, but if your fronts lock up from too much pressure, your rears, which handle about 15-20% of the braking force, will not do squat to stop your car. Locked brakes do not stop a car.

Now, you decide to make the plunge and put a Z master on your car but leave the stock rear calipers on. You have proper biasing for the fronts, so yippy! You no longer lock your brakes up when a deer runs out in front of you, or you forget to look up at a light. Now, your rear brakes, however have reduced pressure on them due to the Z's proportioning valve. So your rear brakes now are only picking up (educated guess!) 10% of the braking load, if that. While you don't want your rear brakes to lock up, you sure as hell want them to pull their weight though. Your fronts have to pick up the slack and your still back at square one since your brake system isn't working as well.

The second situation is still by far the best of the two.

If you upgrade to Z rears with a Z MC, your biasing and proportioning are working together in harmony and your brakes should work flawlessly. After putting the entire Z system on my car, I would never have it any other way IMO. It makes for nice feung shui.

John, why would you want to trouble yourself with putting a hydrolic e-brake on the car if you're going to do Z brakes? Doing the cable system the Z has isn't that big of a deal and I prefer cable setups over hydro setups for e brakes since they're more reliable.

[GoinTopless240]

John, why would you want to trouble yourself with putting a hydrolic e-brake on the car if you're going to do Z brakes? Doing the cable system the Z has isn't that big of a deal and I prefer cable setups over hydro setups for e brakes since they're more reliable.

Man.. com'on.. for the rice factor .. lol... Duuuude.. I'm a hardcore drifter in my vert.. yea.. right..lol..I just wasn't too keen on what I've seen people to trying to make that cable set up work... but I'm open to a factory piece... not u-clamps.. I've seen those let go..ouch... and cables DO stretch after repeated e-brake pulls... no.. wait.. I can clutch kick now...woo hooo... although I do think the hydralic e-brake would be kinda different... I guess I need to hit that "search" button and see the progress... Just painted the rims and hoping to swap hubs this weekend... 5 lugger..yeah baby..now I can put my Mustang rims on the Vert.. I may have to take your advice Bart and look into it more.. keeping stock for now (rotors were way cheap to get the swap done)...ooop didn't mean to threadjack...

[ishkabibble]

That period key is going to wear out one of these days.

[Hijacker]

I hate the cable clamp solutions as well. I picked up a set of Z 2+2 cables from a yard in North Carolina and, while they don't fit perfectly, they reach without needing to be cut and spliced. I just tied them down to the subframe with cable ties and called it a day.

One of these days, I'll order a set of Skyline cables to replace the Z cables, but I'm not made of money.

[94_240sx]

One of these days, I'll order a set of Skyline cables to replace the Z cables, but I'm not made of money.

I had sets of z32 2 seater, z32 2+2 and r33 cables and r33 cable is longer than z32 2+2. z32 2 seater cable has mounting point slightly angled, so z32 2+2 cable is your best bet. r33 cables fit well on s14, not s13.

[biggie]

R33 cables are like $60 new on thenismoshop.com, last I checked.

I do want rear Z32 brakes on my coupe eventually, but for now the 30mm fronts and stock rears on the 17/16 BMC is working fine.

[GoinTopless240]

Ish..lol.. i have 5 computers here at the house.............i spead out the use..lol. I'll see if I can cut back.