Big Bird, Binders, and Bayonettes...Debates Finally Over!

[stebo0728]

So....how did round three go?

Ultimately, I say Romney, not by much, but just enough. And that's not good for Obama.

Romney had 1 job, look presidential, pass the CiC test. He passed.

Obama had 1 job, show that Romney had a drastically dangerously different take on foreign policy. He failed.

Obama did do decent in presenting his foreign policy, of the past 4 years, but kept circling back to domestic policy. Who could blame him, he failed to be clear in both domestic policy debates, this was his last chance. He dropped the ball again. Tomorrow we'll see he lost the fact check war, with both the sequestration comment, and the service status measure blunder, which CNN has already called him on.

[WDRacing]

Obama didn't have his facts straight on Romney vs GM either. In the end it all comes back to the economy, which is currently in peril. I found Obama's "mean mug" pretty humorous, I wonder if he knows how stupid he looked sitting there like that all night.

[stebo0728]

No, I posted a lengthy deal on GM. Romney said he would offer no SPECIAL government assistance, but instead follow the letter of the law, running GM through Chapter 11, granting them the same measure of government assistance any other business would get. That's not saying "NO HELP FOR GM", thats saying "We have laws already that handle this, lets use that framework to fix this rather than make our own kangaroo laws"

Obama did not save the auto industry, he saved one player in the industry, a measure that a government of a capitalist society should never take. But worse yet, he didn't act even to save that one player, he acted to save his vote laiden union base.

The sequestration was being walked back even before the debate was done. To me, he had a real Biden like performance.

[WDRacing]

I thought the debate sucked over all...very boring.

[R/T Hemi]

Well, honestly, I think this is how Romney's supporters scored the debate.
Obama had all the right answers, but Romney showed Presidential poise by simultaneously maintaining bowel and bladder control.


Imagine this. A Southern Baptist voting for a Mormon? (not a religious comment) That's the thing I find so funny. I picture the So. Baptist in the voting booth with this vision of being sent to he!! for voting.

I loved the comments about those newfangled boats they land airplanes on. What did he call them, oh, aircraft boats or carriers, I don't remember. And, we have boats that go underwater on purpose? Awesome. Sucks we have fewer horses though. Yeah, Romney's in a time warp with respect to national defense.

But in all fairness. I think the debates were a bad idea for Romney. He ended up losing 2 of 3, and worse yet, they were the last 2. Water under the bridge, but I found them as necessary as FactCheck for an informed vote.

[Bubba1]

I thought the debate sucked over all...very boring.

This^^. Most pundits are saying Obama won by a split decision, well, except perhaps for Fox News, who I'm guessing saw Romney winning it by a knockout.

[Bubba1]

Imagine this. A Southern Baptist voting for a Mormon? (not a religious comment) That's the thing I find so funny. I picture the So. Baptist in the voting booth with this vision of being sent to he!! for voting.

.

Bill Maher had an amusing line this past week about this stuff...


"The Mormons had good news today. Billy Graham... has taken Mormonism off his website’s list of cults. This is typical of Christian right’s stance on Mitt Romney. They still believe he will go to hell for all eternity but in this life, they’d like a tax cut.."

(No I'm not a Maher fan, but he does say some funny stuff once in awhile.)

[stebo0728]

See I don't agree that Romney lost 2 of 3. Losing would have meant a stop to his momentum. The second debate didn't do this, and I have a good idea this last one wont either. Regardless of the individual debate performances, I consider both a loss for Obama, effectively. He did so poorly in the first, that he had alot of ground to make up, and had to put a serious foot in Romney's junk. He failed to do either, in my estimation. Fox isn't calling it a knockout, at least not officially. Krauthammer did, but most Fox folks would agree it was a draw at best. But I'm telling you, LOOK at the Lundtz groups. Every debate resulted in substantial swings toward Romney. Polls are skewed +10 toward dems, so you can't trust those. This is gonna be an "any given Sunday" election.

[R/T Hemi]

Candy Crowley's fact checking Romney was a turning point in the election. It made him appear uninformed and misguided. Not at all flattering. I think that was the beginning of the end of his hopes for a run to the white house. The last debate had a similar point. That point being Romney's time warp with respect to national defense. Although Romney might be seen as a possible cure for some domestic ills, he totally failed to present himself as a Commander-in-Chief capable of dealing with international policy, let alone national security. It was as if Obama was schooling him at every turn.

Polls are skewed 10% towards the Democrats? I'd say it was more like 47%

[telcoman]

.... Yeah, Romney's in a time warp with respect to national defense. .

Not only national defense

Why would any educated woman want to vote for that jerk?
Why would anyone who understands basic arthmetic vote for someone that has no clue.
Romney needs to take a speech and talking course because his speaking and speech sound like he is slightly retarded with too many pauses betweeen words.

....
But in all fairness. I think the debates were a bad idea for Romney. He ended up losing 2 of 3, and worse yet, they were the last 2. Water under the bridge, but I found them as necessary as FactCheck for an informed vote.

I think the polls in the next few days will confirm

Telcoman

[R/T Hemi]

I agree with Telcoman in many ways. The American people are seeing through the Republican facade.

Proof:

The latest post debate poll. The one that polled undecided voters.....

Obama 48%
Romnay 40%

How can anyone honestly not see that as a major victory for the President?

[stebo0728]

Candy Crowley's fact checking Romney was a turning point in the election. It made him appear uninformed and misguided.

Oh, you mean the fact checking that was factually inaccurate? Yes that was a turning point, but not as you imagine. Crowley will never moderate a debate again, she disgraced herself. And why did she have the transcript to begin with, had she rehearsed this bit with an Obama campaign slug already? And it seriously discredits you when you continue to attribute that to a positive thing for Obama. It was probably the single most disgraceful moment of the debates, of all 4!

Polls are skewed 10% towards the Democrats? I'd say it was more like 47%

If you want to keep asking more of your yes men who they'll vote for to feel better about the odds, go ahead. It presents a false hope for you though.

[stebo0728]

Obama 48%
Romnay 40%

Link it.

[R/T Hemi]

Oh, you mean the fact checking that was factually inaccurate? Yes that was a turning point, but not as you imagine. Crowley will never moderate a debate again, she disgraced herself. And why did she have the transcript to begin with, had she rehearsed this bit with an Obama campaign slug already? And it seriously discredits you when you continue to attribute that to a positive thing for Obama. It was probably the single most disgraceful moment of the debates, of all 4!

. . .

Why is it so hard for the Republican's to admit Romney was wrong about that? He stated an untruth and he was called on it by Candy. We're going to blame Candy for telling the truth and setting the record straight - live - on national television? I think you're confusing your embarrassment for Romney's failure as anger towards Candy for doing what a great political commentator does, that is, tell the truth. Seriously, Sarah Palin didn't get the facts right either, but at least one could fantasize about her in a warm cabin as she babbled on. But when it comes time to vote, people want someone who gets things right, the first time.

Mark my words. That was a pivotal point in the election.

[stebo0728]

But did you completely turn your brain off after the debate? Within minutes Candy herself was already walking back her correction of Romney, and stating that he was indeed correct. But have you even investigated the matter for yourself, or just accepted your talking points for the day? Obama DID NOT call this incident an act of terror, with any specificity for nearly 2 weeks. His Rose Garden speech WAS NOT the speech you were looking for. Of course Romney wasn't going to embarrass Candy on air. And he was better for it. That one gaff between her and Obama did more to blow that issue up than anything else. Its all that was talked about for the next week, and it was not discussed positively for Obama. When I say its disgraceful for you to continue to perpetuate the myth that the transaction in the debate was a good thing, that Candy and Obama were correct, that is the myth, that is the fantasy, and America is wise to it, whether you want to accept it or not.

[R/T Hemi]

Obama 48%
Romnay 40%

Link it.

48/40 +/- 4.5% Obama wins. CNN poll.
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/pollingcenter/polls/3287

And.... CBS poll.
Poll: Sizeable win for Obama in final presidential debate
October 22, 2012 8:08 PM
In a poll of 521 uncommitted voters conducted immediately after the final presidential debate, 53% of these said President Obama was the winner, 23% think Romney won, another 24% feel the debate was a tie.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id= ... stpopvideo

[stebo0728]

Those are debate polls, not election polls.

[stebo0728]

Lets look at likely voter polls

http://www.gallup.com/poll/157817/elect ... omney.aspx
Gallup R 51 - O 46
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... cking_poll
Rasmussen R 50 - O 46

Daily average on RCP has Romney +0.7%

[stebo0728]

The Apologetic non-apology tour:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ez0lU-VLnA[/youtube]

In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America's shown arrogance and been dismissive, even deris-sive

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_889oBKkNU[/youtube]

There's been controversy about the promotion of democracy in recent years, and much of this controversy is connected to the war in Iraq. So let me be clear: No system of government can or should be imposed by one nation on any other.

Democracy, rule of law, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, those are not simply principles of the West to be hoisted on these countries, but rather, what I believe to be universal principles that they can embrace and affirm as part of their national identity. The danger, I think, is when the United States or any country thinks that we can simply impose these values on another country with a different history and a different culture.

[Marenta]

Man, stebo, every fact checker has you pegged wrong. Politifact and FactCheck have you dead wrong.

We need more instantaneous fact checkers in these debates. Romney has told more inaccuracies than Obama during these debates.

We aren't asking you to admit that Romney lost, some humility might be good, though. Just admit that Obama was on point, its what Dems have done when Romney won.

[stebo0728]

Then link it. I haven't seen this.

[Marenta]

Fact Check: http://factcheck.org/2012/10/false-clai ... al-debate/

Politifact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... e-apology/

Fact Checker: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-c ... _tour.html

Seriously, if you want to look at speeches and words, take the full context. I always look at the full context of what has been said, it changes what is meant. Soundbytes are diddly and only make for quick jabs. Substance is what is lacking.

I will give you this: both sides are notorious for not representing the full picture. And, 90% of the people on the NICO politics forum are smart enough to go and dig the information up. Just do yourself a favor and really take a look at what both sides are shoveling.

[stebo0728]

Ill admit that the apology tour wasn't as directly terrible as Romney portrays it. Still, it was an apology tour, it did attack America's credibility abroad. I have been heavier on calling Obama's BS, but there's certainly no shortage of folks calling Romney on his. And the truth lies somewhere in between. Still, there's NO wiggle room on the Libya Crowley debacle.

[Hijacker]

She first agreed with Mitt that it did indeed take 2 weeks for the administration to declare it a terrorlst attack, however, she did tell Mitt thereafter that Barak alluded to it being an "act of terror" the next day in his Rose Garden speech. -- Marenta

[stebo0728]

Read his speech. His was talking about terrorlst attacks in general, and what our response would be. He however did NOT say anything to the effect that we had just been attacked, or that the Libyan attack was a terrorlst attack. You even said earlier, its all about context, is that only when context helps your case? Crowley was wrong, and Obama paid for it.

--but---

regardless of the facts of the matter, Crowley was off base even stepping in on either candidates behalf

[stebo0728]

And you have it backwards, she floundered around on it. She stepped in and said "yes he did refer to it as a terrorlst attack", and then tried to walk it back a bit by saying "but then there was the 2 week thing"

And answer me this. If Obama had indeed initially referred to it as terror, why go on the View and push the video story? Why have his cronies push the video story for 2 weeks?

We can wobble around on the apology tour, or the unclear plans of either candidate, but Obama just can't make the case that he was strong and upfront from the getgo on Libya. To borrow his phrase "the math don't work".

[Marenta]

The administration was putting out the information they got as they got it. The video uprising also happened to coordinate with the Benghazi attack in Libya. So, while the administration was first getting the impression that it was in response to the video (and, that's indeed what they released) it wasn't until further investigation that they could confirm it was a terrorlst attack.

Personally, I'd rather have ALL information than to wait for the investigation to be concluded and only get the findings at the end. Obama and his administration are not robots, they make mistakes, they're human. Romney will do the same thing if he gets in office, it's just the nature of the beast. Nobody is perfect, and it's ludicrous to assume that perfection is attainable by any one person.

Edit: Oh, and as an aside, watch the John Stewart interview with Obama from last Thursday. Stewart asks him, and while he didn't specifically say "not optimal" about the 4 deaths (John said that) he clearly stated what his view was and what should happen immediately after he was informed about the attack.

[stebo0728]

Ya, saw that. I didn't go apesh*t over the "optimal" comment like most folks did, he was off teleprompter, and John fed him a big word, so he recycled it.

You go ahead and believe what you want on this thing. Ignore the facts as they come out if you like. I'm not going to keep beating this dead horse with you. If Obama loses, this scandal will likely be the reason. Obama keeps setting the precedent for how NOT to do things.

[Marenta]

I don't have a "belief" about anything. I watch the speeches (or read transcripts) and I make up my own damned mind about it. How I interpret something is said is the problem with communicating. I can ensure what I am saying has clarity and is set in tone; however, when you receive that message you have to decode it and that's where the meaning is changed.

Do I think it's crap that it took almost 2 damned weeks for them to label it as a terrorlst attack, yes. Am I going to fault the administration for putting out ALL of the information going on on the other side of the world, no. Instead, I'm going to want the mofos that attacked the consulate brought to justice, and Libya is doing a damned fine job of hunting them down and getting rid of them. I don't blame the victim, I blame the attacker.

[stebo0728]

I'll just set this down quietly and walk away, whistling....

http://www.redstate.com/2012/10/26/why- ... -is-toast/