BG44k

[Bayarea Q]

Will Joe ship me a few cans? (norhern CA)

I found the old thread but the person no longer works at the dealer.

Thanks,Robert

[DAEDALUS]

Yes, they still sell BG44k, just not sure for how much. 1-888-256-5328

[Q451990]

You might also look for it locally using BG's Find-a-shop locator

Heath

[Bayarea Q]

Thanks guys! I found a shop in my home town. The can is "about $15" and the BG service (which he says includes the can) for $99. I'm thinking I might as well do the service. Is there anything speacial about the Q45 that the tech needs to know? Or do something any different than another car?Another question I have is does this service clean the intake or plenum at all? I'm just curious becuase I plan on taking the Q in to have the plenum pulled and cleaned to replace all the rubber hoses. Should I have the BG44K fuel injection service before or after the plenum job? Or does it matter?

Thanks again,Robert

[AZhitman]

After - They'll clean the plenum when they pull it (if you ask).

[DAEDALUS]

$15 is a good price, and the $99 is fair for the BG service. I'd bring them a fuel filter at the same time if it's been around for a while. They'll need a tapered hose fitting to hook into the fuel system; no shraeder valves. Tap into the line just past the fuel filter. The return line needs to be connected to the input and I think I rememeber Dennis saying T-3 operates at around 50 psi, but they should know the process. Always get the details on the job for any kind of service before you have it done. I once went to a shop advertising a fuel injector cleaning service for a great price. Turns out they only cleaned around the outside of the injectors for the price! I'm guessing the BG service is only a fuel rail flush; no intake cleaning involved at all. I don't think it matters much when you do one cleaning relative to the other; the 2 systems only cross paths inside the intake runner. Speaking of which, you might want to pay a little more to have them pull the runners too for a thorough scrubbing.

[Bayarea Q]

Thanks....I was worried that if I did the rail flush prior to the plenum cleaning I would redirty my injectors??

Dae: Your so right about finding out about the service before being done. That's why I'm asking if there is anything the average BG tech doesn't know about Q's that he needs to? Please explain what that cheap service was that only cleaned around the injectors? How is that possible? I just want to be sure that's not what there selling me!

The runners your talking about are the 8 tubes that spin off the plenum right? I thought they would come of with the plenum? Or are they a seperate part?

[DAEDALUS]

The runners are the metal intake parts below the plenum, and which the plenum bolts to. Each runner has 2 plenum bolts...16 bolts total. If you have the runners pulled, they'll have to remove the entire fuel rail, so it will cost more, but if you're already there, then why not. Shouldn't affect the injectors' cleanliness at all. I wouldn't worry about the service being too misleading; A "BG" injector cleaning service is pretty explanatory to me, unless "BG" means "Big Gomer's". I don't know what to say about the service I called about. I called up cause I wanted to know if it was a flush, ultrasonic process, or something else. The guy was pretty tight lipped: "no...no...no." Finally I asked, "well, then, what does it include?". "Oh, we just clean the outside of the injectors". I don't really now what that means, other than that's one place that won't be getting my business.

[Bayarea Q]

Dae: Thanks for all your help, it's greatly appreciated!

Have you seen dirty runners? If so what year & mileage?Do you know how much more book time it would be to pull the runners?

[DAEDALUS]

The runners will be as dirty as the plenum. I saw mine at maybe 190k. Everything was covered in grime, looked like the inside of a coal mine. I'd guess maybe .005-.010 thick. I can only guess at the R&R time on the runners; I don't think there's a "book" time for that job in particular, since very few people have it done. Maybe 2-3 hours, including cleaning? There will probably be extra parts needed, like solid gaskets (all rubber hoses should be replaced anyway). The problem with a job like this is that the service writer has to pad his estimates because he's just not familiar with the occassional and rare job, and he has to make sure he doesn't come up short. Usually the customer gets screwed because of this lack of familiarity. He/she bids high, you sign the form, and you rarely get any money back for any time left. Credit the tech's efficiency.

[DAEDALUS]

If you have a multimeter, I strongly suggest you measure your injectors and knock sensors before taking your car in for the plenum removal. I'll work on a step-by-step procedure.

[PalmerWMD]

Just a note:

Taking off the plenum and runners will push the price into the triple digits.

Fred..

[PalmerWMD]

PS: the runner and plenum on my just crashed Q are so clean u can eat of them..

Fred..

[PalmerWMD]

Anotehr note:

I would only let a shop I really trust take off teh runners as the combustion chamber is unprotected against the dust of the average shop.

Also the trickier vaccum leaks I had before were both due to poorly re-installed runners( stripping)

Fred...

[Bayarea Q]

Fred,

Thanks for the advice.....I think I'll leave them alone. I trust my shop very much, but I don't trust they could do that kind of job. Actually I'm concerned that I should buy a shop manual for their reference??? Or do you think they have something that tells them how much to torq everything down??I can have them cleaned a little on the car right? If so I think I'll go for that.

[Bayarea Q]

Dae:

What is a multimeter, or better yet how much are they? How difficult is it to do? This to is great advice!! I really appreciate it.

Robert

[DAEDALUS]

I'll post a page for checking the injectors and KS...should be done within a couple days. It's fairly easy...shouldn't take too long. By multimeter I mean a generic volt/ohm/amp meter. You can get a decent digital one for $20-30. No frills, and not super-accurate, but worth the money. Higher-end automotive models can run several hundred bucks but have the ability to measure RPMs, dwell, induction, pressure, temperature, etc. Beyond that, you get into ones that display and print signal traces...oscilloscope.Every shop should have a torque chart hanging on the wall that specifies standard torques for screws and bolts, depending on diameter and pitch. Some critical bolts are specified as higher than standard, which is one reason why a manual is good. Most shops rely on experience...they don't use torque wrenches anyway. The plenum can be partialy cleaned on the car, but the runners can't really be touched at all, except for whatever can be done with an intake cleaner.

[Bayarea Q]

I've read posts that stated the tech didn't put the right torque down on the new plenum hoses, which resulted in a leak. I'm very concerned about this, should I be?? The whole reason why I'm having the plenum plulled is so I don't have to worry about a possible overheat. I would hate to have this happen after I spent 1K trying to prevent it.

Daedalus:I would appreciate your post on checking the KS and injectors. I think I may just have my tech do it when the plenum is pulled.

On another note I'm very interested to see how much cleaing the plenum will do for my acceleration.

[Q45tech]

Cleaning the plenum and runner and TB [plus backs of intake valves] [the whole intake system] might at absolutely most return a 5-10% increase in air flow above 6,000 rpm.Having clean [equal flow] injectors might affect peak power by 5% but these might not be totatlly additive.

Pretty hard to feel [even time] 3/10th of a second in quarter mile [15.4>15.1 seconds].

Most of the sluggish cars we see have adjustment [timing] or knock sensor or temperature problems...............as injector failures are rare in South.

If the idle is PERFECT then usualy few acceleration problems.....most of cleaning shows up as a excellant idle.