best tuning method for higher horsepower motors(400+whp)

[Tyler]

okay guys my build is coming down to the final stages, and i was wondering what the best method for tuning it is, now i know the term "best" is used fairly loosely with things like this but im just looking for input.

my setup is:.020 over arias pistionsturbo240 sportsmen rodsturbonetics t3/t4 .63 hotsidejgs log maniported and polished headfull arp hardwareDW 810cc injectorswalbroz32 maf

im looking for around 450whp or so. what would be the best method to tune this motor? because im not very confident in tuning it myself with something like nistune or MS. so i was thinking something along the lines of a enthaply tuned ecu, with a safc to fine tune it further? are rom tunes not good for higher hp engines? thanks for any help you have! -TJG

[Edub1]

First, you are going to want a better manifold. I don't even know if you can make 450HP on a JGS.

As for the tune, check out hybridka.com, they have a setup that uses a daughterboard you solder in - bikirom. There are others as well.

[GTR PrYdE]

The JGS mani is projected to hold UP TO 450whp, so over that and it's just inefficient, but if you stay under, you should meet your goals.

Rom tuning is great, if you have a very reliable source that can keep tuning frequently until the jobs done. Enthalpy seems to be lacking with response these days, and at those power levels you really want something fine-tuned.

If stand-alone is out of the question, seek out a reputable tuner that can rom tune your car locally.

[Tyler]

thats why i was thinking rom tune plus a safc or similar so i could dial in the fine tuning myself with the help of a local shop. you can still use a safc with a rom tune correct?

[WDRacing]

That manifold and turbo combination will be just fine, they both run out of steam at roughly the same point.

This is the best method for DIY tuning available right now IMO...

http://www.nistune.com/

If you want a guaranteed good tune, get Enthalpy. I haven't seen any complaints other then slow service. A slight tweak here and there with a SAFC will get you running pretty much perfect.

WD

[Csomme]

What about messing around with Timing? I know Honda guys have this thing that they put in their ECU called "Chrome". It's essentially a live tune, what the tuners use(not as in , but as in a person who tunes. lol)

I'm looking for the same horse power goals, and I want something I can mess around with the timing with. And E-manage is ut of the question because it sucks. lol. Is that Bikirom thing you were talking about essentially what "Chrome" is?

Sorry to thread jack, but I think we need this made clear:P haha

Basically, I'm looking to NOT use a standalone, but I want something I can mess with the timing with. If the AFC had the ability I would use it in a second. lol.

[Edub1]

That manifold and turbo combination will be just fine, they both run out of steam at roughly the same point.

This is the best method for DIY tuning available right now IMO...

http://www.nistune.com/

If you want a guaranteed good tune, get Enthalpy. I haven't seen any complaints other then slow service. A slight tweak here and there with a SAFC will get you running pretty much perfect.

WD

Man, that looks sweet for my SOHC. I might ebay the Megasquirt and get that. Are a lot of guys getting good results with that?

As for the manifold - look at the guys motor build. Why cheap out on the manifold? Besides the SS Autochrome ones do fine for a lot of guys. I know it's a **** company but they are inexpensive and will flow far, far better than a log. If I spent that much on my motor there is no way I'd cheap out and use a log mani.

Now please - tell me more about this tuning product!

[WDRacing]

I ran 20 psi with the JGS log and made enough power to throw a rod through my block. SSAC is total crap in comparison where quality is concerned and the runner size mixed with a AWFUL wastegate port will lead to nothing but trouble.

Nistune has had excellent results from a few guys on staff. I have heard nothing but excellent things about it, opposite of MS. MS is cheap...thats the only thing is has going for it. I'd rather do a hacked MAF and MSD BTM then run the MS system.

WD

[the converted]

You just love hating on megasquirt. CROME is the equivalent of a programmable daughterboard for hondas. I still have a copy even though I don't play with that stuff anymore.

Find a good tuner in your area that can work with your set up and let him tell you what he likes to work with. Then get that.

[WDRacing]

You just love hating on megasquirt.

You just love young boyz

[the converted]

[Tyler]

thanks WD, i was pretty sure the log would be fine, and 450 was just a goal, if i end up closer to 400 thats still more then enough to get me in trouble!

as for tuning, i had thought about nistune, but im just afriad that im not compentent enough to do it and do it right. and this motor turned out to be expensive, so i dont wanna blow it up cause i didnt know how to tune, and the closest shop that does is about 2 hours away.

[Edub1]

It's not hard to tune. You need a wideband O2 sensor and you adjust your AF ratio to around 11.5-11.9:1 in boost areas. This will be around 3000 rpms and 70% throttle. Do this while still NA.

Then pull about .5 deg for each lb of boost. You can overestimate this in all areas of the map that will see boost. Then you road test it creeping up the timing carefully until it is running well. Then you put it on a dyno and keep creeping up the timing until each bump fails to cause an improvement and you are done. You will want to use 93 octane and plugs that are two steps colder (search)

Now there are questions as to how the software deals with different MFS or low imp injectors and stuff like that but it looks pretty user friendly.

[Tyler]

heres the deal, im not confident enough to do it like i said. yeah its probably easy for some people but i just dont wanna risk it with this motor. and the motor is on an engine stand right now, so im not going to pull all the turbo stuff off, install the motor, then put the turbo stuff back on it just to tune it. im going for the most reliable user-friendly system. i wanna be able to plug an ecu in, drive it to the local shop, and have their tuner fine tune it with the safc. and i was just asking if thats an okay way to go about it for a high hp motor

[hannibal]

i wanna be able to plug an ecu in, drive it to the local shop, and have their tuner fine tune it with the safc. and i was just asking if thats an okay way to go about it for a high hp motor

^ From waht Ive read, you can do that with a Nistune instead of a tuned ECU plus SAFC. I believe you can just use a base line tune to get you there and fine tune from there...

I looked at NIStune's site but was confused on the pricing. Know of any US retailers?

EDIT: I found a list under workshops. $190 isnt bad at all...

[shimizu_17]

If your going to have more than 400 rwhp on pump gas. You should look into running E85 if you can get it or methanol injection. Also if you are comfortable tuning your own setup get a calum or a nistune since its a lot more affordable than a real standalone such as haltech or aem.