Garage Battle wrote:But instead of criticizing, just give me examples of what you've personally owned and your thoughts on it. thanks!

instead of calling people ricers, had you posted this, none of this would have happened.

Garage Battle wrote:the car has a solid feel to the suspension without being harsh.

It's b/c it's properly dampened. I'd go AGX/Ground Control if I were you (if Koni Yellows worked with GC, I'd reccomend those struts instead...I just like them better). If you have extra dough, get the battle version rear toe links to adjust toe for safer high velocity traveling and get the battle version adjustable tension rods to eliminate steering wheel shimmy (which will become more and more apparent as you travel faster). Those will be the most important aspects of your suspension to change with safety at high speeds in mind...IMHO of course.

And as Projekt said, refrain from name calling and you won't get such harsh responses.

Ok first of all, you kids that talk **** about me.go ahead and do it. I rip you all to pieces because half of the time youre all a rumor mill. Nobody does their own work , nobody does any of their crap, none of you have any first hand knowledge on anything. There is maybe a small 3% of the people that read these forums that actually have first hand experience in what i am talking about, and know what is up in doing their own work. The rest of you?? Yes, you are ricers.

Now. In my own personal experiences, i like suspension technique springs and tokico blues for a high speed setup. The car soaks up bumps in the road, but is responsive enough to pass cars and what not. If you have to make sudden jerky movements in the car at those speeds then a few things are happening1) youre a ricer and you don't know waht you're doing2) youre trying to pass a car which means that3) you are remotely thinking about what youre doing

going fast is very dangerous but you dont need to have a 2500 dollar suspension setup to do it.

Ahhh Mattback the one true genius...

I just have a couple points to make before the flame wars continue.

1. DoriDori, you are RIGHT ON THE MARK with that last post about suspension stuff

2. I do ALL of my own work, in fact, the only work I DON'T do is mount and dismount tires on my rims (I don't have a machine and it is too hard to change 40series tires by hand). I have installed susepnsions on Accords, Mustangs, Civics, Talons, 240's, Cavaliers, and I am fixing to install some KYB's and GC's on a 300zx TT this coming weekend. All of this done by hand, with hand tools, no instructions and in various friend's garages. Now I have my own shop to work on stuff (mine as in I pay the rent on the place with 2 other guys) and as soon as I get my motor I will be doing the install myself. I guess I fall into your little 3% range.

3. I have ridden in an SR'd 240 with a Prokit and Tokico blues and I must say that the ride quality SUCKS! Those shocks are pitifully dampened at best and at high speeds (around 120ish) the car gets pillowy and you feel very detached from the road. I suppose if you like the feeling of not being in complete control of your car at high enough speeds that if you crash, you are almost guaranteed to die, then a soft, crappy cheap a$$ suspension is just what you need.

I am still a firm believer in a good stiff suspension with excellently matched damping on the struts. I am also still a firm believer that if you are going to be risking your life, you shouldn't be cutting corners on the part of the car that connects you to the friggin road...

Dang Matt, I thought you hade more sense than your last comment implied...

I also have to add that after thinking about it, I can see the point you are trying to make Matt. It is better to have a suspension softer than say, tein HE's or something, for high speed driving, but I still think you should at least put adjustable shocks on the car, I know firsthand that the tokico blues suck...

maybe you had a bunk set of blues ?

i know that with a set of eibach springs (which are progressive) the car feels like it is on a lincoln air control system ( i guess which is what you were describing)

get a nice linear rate spring and you will not see that problem at all. A fellow secret services employee and friend of mine scott routinely goes 180+ mph in his s13 with tein HE's. The car is too stiff for me. it bounces up and down at that speed. The spring rates and dampening are FAR too high to be used on expressways and freeways, but yet still soft for a true track car, for what some of you guys consider soft. 95% of you will never go this fast in a 13. the 13 is relatively light, and you dont need to have 8/6 springrates on the thing. a good suspension techniques and upgraded non adjustable will be fine, like a bilstien.

as soon as you start to get really fast in your 13 with the HE's on, you'll realize ' damn, i need to soften this stuff up majorly somehow '.

mattback wrote:95% of you will never go this fast in a 13.

i'm putting my money on 100% of you will never go this fast cause none of you are bonneville racers.

i'm calling :bsflag

me? i'll stick to my reachable speeds, thank you.

it's really not that hard to get a decently aerodynamic car with 450 horsepower to the wheels witht he proper gearing to go 180mph.

stock z32s na/s with 222bhp go 150mph..

The point Matt is trying to make is false. First of all, at higher speeds, a car effectively weighs more due to downforce. Much more at excessively high speeds like 180+mph (which no S13 is doing without a z32 rear end or custom gears or a higher redline). To give you a very excessive example, I'll use F1 cars. The amount of aerodynamic downforce produced by the front and rear wings and the car underbody, once the car is travelling at 100.2mph, can generate enough downforce to equal it's own weight. At 180+, it's more than tripled it's own weight. That's really bad news if you are driving very fast with a soft, poorly dampened suspension.

Think about how a luxo car fells at around 70-80mph. We've all felt it...that weird 'floaty' feeling you get when you hit a bump. Thats bad for car controll. The last thing you want at high speeds is for the top of your car to float away from the ground. It's the same reasons why SUV's roll at 60 if they lose controll and race cars can spin at well over 100. You want a stiff suspension for high speeds...you want a low car for high speeds (to prevent lift)...the best struts would be one's with independant bound and rebound adjustments...a big rice wing and some good aero would really help too.

I think what mattback is saying is that at high speeds small bumps FEEL harsher and you would want to soften the suspension SLIGHTLY to reduce this. You want stiffness but not too the point where you are rattling your teeth out. Otherwise why not just have a NO-DAMPENING setting that just locks the suspension? From what i can see you are both right but are too pissed off at eachother to actualy read and consider eachothers posts. Its kinda sad to see seasoned members get into such pissing contests.

HaveBlue is correct. Also what matt said about the HE's is also correct, the reason they are all jerky like that at high speeds is because the damping is good, but not all that good. IF it was mated to a damper that was valved better they would work fine. Actually, HA's would probably be better for this type of driving because they have reasonably stiff springs and matched shock valving.

we are all correct, just some more than others.

the error is that certain people(not naming names) are trying to find a solution to a problem they can't fix. you want to drive 180 on a public road and not feel the bumps. lets see. public roads are meant for <100 mph driving, so i think that might tell you something. even if you're on a race track, i don't think that the drivers of the (race) cars are saying to their team manager "hey, it's a little bumpy out there, let's valve our shocks down so it's more comfortable for me"

No pissing contest here...all I am saying is that it is absolutely, 100% false to say that a stiff suspension is bad for high speed driving. If it were, the racing world would be in a heap of trouble. The name of the game is dampening.

Wow, a flame war. Why doesn't he want a super stiff suspension like they have on "race cars" because they only have to be in there for a few hours and get paid. This is still ment for somewhat streetablity. Its like cams sure you can get race setup cams to make lots of power, but you will have to consistanly rev the engine at a stop to keep it form stalling. Just like when he goes out he doesn't want to come back all sore and sh*t. And yes, it is goos to have a stiff suspension on the highways, but if its too stiff it will react to quickly and who knows what you will run into. You neeed some sort of padding, so that every twitch that you make on the steering doesnt send you 3 feet over to the next lane.

I'm not taking part in the flame war, but I'll offer some knowledge.

For those who don't know, Tokico Blues are among the worst suspension for an 89-93 240sx. Nope, I've never ridden on them, but this is based completely on customer feedback. Here on NICO, and Zilvia forums, there are always people who have them blow out faster than stock suspension. Even locally, tuner shops here don't recommend them, because they just end up being returned. Why does this happen? I don't know.I'm willing to just write Tokico Blues off as bad engineering to be honest.

Stay away from BluesThat's my two cents.

I'm real sure it's about time to shut this thread down.....

i dont see what the flame war is.

people who have experience speaking, and people who dont have any experience, just internet knowledge (which we know is worth 0.00) arguing against us.

whatever guys.

i agree with you, stiffer is better, if you need the ultra responsiveness and what not.. but the truth of the matter is that if youre only going in a straight line over a bridge, then you can afford to have a much softer car.

and at speed, depending on the car's aerodynamics, it might even weigh less. take the 88-93 mustang for example. it gets lighter if it doesnt have teh ground effects GT package, and will come off the ground practically (rear end gets VERY light) around 150mph.

and yes, a 240sx revving to 7600 rpm with stock gearing and diff can hit 180mph with a 245/45/16.

mattback wrote:i dont see what the flame war is.I do. This is closed.

people who have experience speaking, and people who dont have any experience, just internet knowledge (which we know is worth 0.00) arguing against us.maybe true, but I dont think calling everyone incompetent is going to help.

and yes, a 240sx revving to 7600 rpm with stock gearing and diff can hit 180mph with a 245/45/16. You calculated this, Im sure, with the correct eqation, I dont care to, but 7600rpm is fairly excessive for the KA, and even the SR20, without some kind of build-up, and both engine run into problems breathing at that high of an RPM anyhow.

IN short this is closed, it's become irritating. Post constructively please.-chet