Best Oils For Ka24de!!
Best Oils For Ka24de!!
I looked, and looked and searched, and found not much. Found for infinity but nothing for the s13. So my questions are: Which grade oil do you use in your 240sx (ka24de) and brand? I know the manual says 5w30, but don't know now adays. Also, what transmission fluid do you use? Redline what? Oh, an please tell me which brand you've been most successful with. Oh, diff. Oil?
-
lessthanjakejohn
- Posts: 4105
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:39 am
yes basiccally. The oil recommended by the manufacture is suggestd by a multiple of things.
You could also run a 10w-30 (more stable then a 5w-30). But I would run a 0w-40 or a 10w-40,
What are your driving habits, and where do you live?
Quote »All other things being equal (same brand):
10w-30 is genererally a much better oil than a 5w-30.Its more stable, puts a lower varnish load on your engine (cuz less VII's).Also it will have somwhat better lubricity since the extra VII's a 5w-30 has over a 10w-30 displace some of the base oil.Also a 10w-30 is plenty thin for the winter anywhere but the northern US.
On a side note in most applications and locations a Xw-40 (suchas a 5w-40,10w-40,15w-40) oil is generally a much better choice when engine protection is your priority than the ofetn recommended Xw-30 oils.The reason is that a 30 weight oil will save maybe a fifth of a mpg a fact that is very important to car manufactuers struggling to keep their federally mandated CAFE mpgs down.Some of the penalites assed by the USA govt for exceeding CAFE are pretty expensive (100's of millions of $$) giving manufacturers a hi incentive to squeeze every drop out of a given design.The easiset and cheapest (since no cost to manufacturer) trick to achieve this is to lower viscosity recommendations.You will note that almnost all manufacturere have lowered their recommendations in viscosity significantly vs earlier year in US.
Some myth supporting this is out there (like "todays engines have tighter bearing clearnaces blah blah" but you will find that the viscosity recommendations are lower in teh exact same engines as made 15 years ago (the GM 3.8 comes to mind as just one example among many).Even the same engines that are recommended as 10w-40 or 20w-50 in France/Germany/Italy etc are recommend as 5w-30 year 'round here in US, the exact same engine!!!!:eek
Anyway, there are very few vehicles that wont benefit at least in some fashion (however minor) from a swicth to a Xw-40 weight oil in all situation but a northern winter.
In my Q (smashed 5 days ago) I run/ran ValvolineSYnPower 5w-40 all year (Kentucky).
ANOTHER PASTE:
A little bit about how using synthetic oils, influence viscosity considerations:
I feel that 5w-30weight oils (at least as a syn) are an obsolete weight, despite their recent popularity with manufactueres.Why?, because you will <always> be able to get an oil that is better on one end of the performance envelope, than any given 5w-30 at the same price.
Example: You can buy a winter oil in a 0w-30 that will be a much better winter oil for the same price as its syn from same brand in 5w-30 yet the hard running protection will be equal.
Now the sharp reader will say: "AHA! Hypocrisy! Can't I now just use the arguments you used against 5w-30 vs 10w-30 with VII"S and their effects on your choice of 0w-30 over 5w-30?"
The answer is no, the reason is when you have syn base stokcs you need a lot less (if any) VII's to achive a given viscosity range (there is also such a thing as pour point depressents but I will leave them out to keep this discussion simple).So the differnce in non base lube addivtives froma 0w-30 to a 5w-30 is negligible making the 0w-30 a suoperior choice especially in winter.
On the other end of 5w-30 There is 5w-40 (for a long time the "standard" european grade, like our 10w-30 used to be here).
The 5w-40 (in a syn) wil cold start just as well as a syn in 5w-30 but provide superior film stregnth reserve for fully warmed up drving, and especially hi rev/hiload drving situations, .So the 5w-30 is obsolete here as well.There is abosulutely no need to run a 5w-30 if using synthetic oils for the reasons outlined above.-------------------
SOME MORE:
Check out the oils article in the article section, also the link posted above, to the other poll ,answers some of your questions.
Short summary:Our driving environments are similiar(short trips, some HARd driving), except I drive more miles.I also make sure I drive it real hard (going from 55mph to 11mph up an hill) at least a couple of times a months to keep the chambers clean.I prefer ValvolineSynPower 5w-40, becasue it is higher detergency than MOBIL1 and a readily available 40 full PAO syn.This detergent package is important in our higher mile engines.
I want 40 wieght oil due to my hard revving driving habits.I feel a 30 weight is too thin.Especially a MOBIL1 30 weight, which tends to run in the thinner range of what is still considered reeportable as a 30 weight.ie a 27 weight or so, if u reported it as accurate as that ,instead of the standard SAE viscosity steps.Also MOBIL 1 has a history of losing viscosity and going down in viscosity during use.(oil analysis sources primarily on VQ30 and VQ35 engines).
ValvolineSYnPower as a 30 weigth(in a 10w-30) is a bit thicker at operating temps despite teh same value reported for viscosity.
But I feel I want 40 weight oil.5w-40 is a bit of a larger spread with regardsv to VI's than I like,but with my religously prompt oil changes (3000 miles) its a non issue for me.Aslo in a PAO syn VI's are not such a huge problem to begin with.And the 5w- part enables me to run this oil thru a Kentucky winter.(in Minnesota or so I would go thinner)
THe 40 weight oil that u can get in a MOBIL1 is a 0w-40 probaly a good oil it meets teh same rigirous specs for hard driving that teh 5w-40 from SynPower does, but the spread in a 0w-40 is getting a bit too large for comfort for me even in a full syn oil.
EDIT!!!: We now know this to be a not so significant issue, M1 0w-40 has held up well in used oil analyses, maybe not as well as their 15w-50 but still.
----------------
SUMMARYIn Florida there is no reason at all, to go with a 30 weight oil short of a brand new engine with unusually tight clearances.
Since you specified synthetic, this argument becomes a bit easier ( in non syns less stability thru too much vII spreads play a role, this not significant in good synthetics, so in non syns you might have an small arguement for 10w-30)
Also recently many newer performance engines running on the now so popular 30 weight recommendations have shown excessive wear of the type suggestive of too thin oils ( boundary layer lubrication breakdown)
A VH45DE certainly is a performance engine and many of us drive them hard.
One of the very best oils currently off the shelf is MOBIL1 0w-40. Makes a great summer and winter oil w/o unduly sacrificing stability.It's the only off-the-shelf oil I am aware of, that meets MB 229.5, it has superseded ValvolineSYnPower 5w-40 as my personal favorite ( I still like the ValSynPO detergent package better and recommend it for not-so-clean engines).
If you autocross and/or street race a lot, 15w-50/20w-50 may be appropiate.Also a pretty stable oil.
A member of this club autocrossed his turboed car a lot and visibly beat up his MOBIL1 10w30 in a few hundred miles.He switched to Mobil1 15w-50 on my recommendation and has had no problem since.
But a 50 weight may not be neccessary in your NA application and a 40 weight likely the best all round choice.
Here is a collection of some of the very best 40 weight oils available in USA (or more accurately, some of the very best oils period)http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....229.1[/quote]
You could also run a 10w-30 (more stable then a 5w-30). But I would run a 0w-40 or a 10w-40,
What are your driving habits, and where do you live?
Quote »All other things being equal (same brand):
10w-30 is genererally a much better oil than a 5w-30.Its more stable, puts a lower varnish load on your engine (cuz less VII's).Also it will have somwhat better lubricity since the extra VII's a 5w-30 has over a 10w-30 displace some of the base oil.Also a 10w-30 is plenty thin for the winter anywhere but the northern US.
On a side note in most applications and locations a Xw-40 (suchas a 5w-40,10w-40,15w-40) oil is generally a much better choice when engine protection is your priority than the ofetn recommended Xw-30 oils.The reason is that a 30 weight oil will save maybe a fifth of a mpg a fact that is very important to car manufactuers struggling to keep their federally mandated CAFE mpgs down.Some of the penalites assed by the USA govt for exceeding CAFE are pretty expensive (100's of millions of $$) giving manufacturers a hi incentive to squeeze every drop out of a given design.The easiset and cheapest (since no cost to manufacturer) trick to achieve this is to lower viscosity recommendations.You will note that almnost all manufacturere have lowered their recommendations in viscosity significantly vs earlier year in US.
Some myth supporting this is out there (like "todays engines have tighter bearing clearnaces blah blah" but you will find that the viscosity recommendations are lower in teh exact same engines as made 15 years ago (the GM 3.8 comes to mind as just one example among many).Even the same engines that are recommended as 10w-40 or 20w-50 in France/Germany/Italy etc are recommend as 5w-30 year 'round here in US, the exact same engine!!!!:eek
Anyway, there are very few vehicles that wont benefit at least in some fashion (however minor) from a swicth to a Xw-40 weight oil in all situation but a northern winter.
In my Q (smashed 5 days ago) I run/ran ValvolineSYnPower 5w-40 all year (Kentucky).
ANOTHER PASTE:
A little bit about how using synthetic oils, influence viscosity considerations:
I feel that 5w-30weight oils (at least as a syn) are an obsolete weight, despite their recent popularity with manufactueres.Why?, because you will <always> be able to get an oil that is better on one end of the performance envelope, than any given 5w-30 at the same price.
Example: You can buy a winter oil in a 0w-30 that will be a much better winter oil for the same price as its syn from same brand in 5w-30 yet the hard running protection will be equal.
Now the sharp reader will say: "AHA! Hypocrisy! Can't I now just use the arguments you used against 5w-30 vs 10w-30 with VII"S and their effects on your choice of 0w-30 over 5w-30?"
The answer is no, the reason is when you have syn base stokcs you need a lot less (if any) VII's to achive a given viscosity range (there is also such a thing as pour point depressents but I will leave them out to keep this discussion simple).So the differnce in non base lube addivtives froma 0w-30 to a 5w-30 is negligible making the 0w-30 a suoperior choice especially in winter.
On the other end of 5w-30 There is 5w-40 (for a long time the "standard" european grade, like our 10w-30 used to be here).
The 5w-40 (in a syn) wil cold start just as well as a syn in 5w-30 but provide superior film stregnth reserve for fully warmed up drving, and especially hi rev/hiload drving situations, .So the 5w-30 is obsolete here as well.There is abosulutely no need to run a 5w-30 if using synthetic oils for the reasons outlined above.-------------------
SOME MORE:
Check out the oils article in the article section, also the link posted above, to the other poll ,answers some of your questions.
Short summary:Our driving environments are similiar(short trips, some HARd driving), except I drive more miles.I also make sure I drive it real hard (going from 55mph to 11mph up an hill) at least a couple of times a months to keep the chambers clean.I prefer ValvolineSynPower 5w-40, becasue it is higher detergency than MOBIL1 and a readily available 40 full PAO syn.This detergent package is important in our higher mile engines.
I want 40 wieght oil due to my hard revving driving habits.I feel a 30 weight is too thin.Especially a MOBIL1 30 weight, which tends to run in the thinner range of what is still considered reeportable as a 30 weight.ie a 27 weight or so, if u reported it as accurate as that ,instead of the standard SAE viscosity steps.Also MOBIL 1 has a history of losing viscosity and going down in viscosity during use.(oil analysis sources primarily on VQ30 and VQ35 engines).
ValvolineSYnPower as a 30 weigth(in a 10w-30) is a bit thicker at operating temps despite teh same value reported for viscosity.
But I feel I want 40 weight oil.5w-40 is a bit of a larger spread with regardsv to VI's than I like,but with my religously prompt oil changes (3000 miles) its a non issue for me.Aslo in a PAO syn VI's are not such a huge problem to begin with.And the 5w- part enables me to run this oil thru a Kentucky winter.(in Minnesota or so I would go thinner)
THe 40 weight oil that u can get in a MOBIL1 is a 0w-40 probaly a good oil it meets teh same rigirous specs for hard driving that teh 5w-40 from SynPower does, but the spread in a 0w-40 is getting a bit too large for comfort for me even in a full syn oil.
EDIT!!!: We now know this to be a not so significant issue, M1 0w-40 has held up well in used oil analyses, maybe not as well as their 15w-50 but still.
----------------
SUMMARYIn Florida there is no reason at all, to go with a 30 weight oil short of a brand new engine with unusually tight clearances.
Since you specified synthetic, this argument becomes a bit easier ( in non syns less stability thru too much vII spreads play a role, this not significant in good synthetics, so in non syns you might have an small arguement for 10w-30)
Also recently many newer performance engines running on the now so popular 30 weight recommendations have shown excessive wear of the type suggestive of too thin oils ( boundary layer lubrication breakdown)
A VH45DE certainly is a performance engine and many of us drive them hard.
One of the very best oils currently off the shelf is MOBIL1 0w-40. Makes a great summer and winter oil w/o unduly sacrificing stability.It's the only off-the-shelf oil I am aware of, that meets MB 229.5, it has superseded ValvolineSYnPower 5w-40 as my personal favorite ( I still like the ValSynPO detergent package better and recommend it for not-so-clean engines).
If you autocross and/or street race a lot, 15w-50/20w-50 may be appropiate.Also a pretty stable oil.
A member of this club autocrossed his turboed car a lot and visibly beat up his MOBIL1 10w30 in a few hundred miles.He switched to Mobil1 15w-50 on my recommendation and has had no problem since.
But a 50 weight may not be neccessary in your NA application and a 40 weight likely the best all round choice.
Here is a collection of some of the very best 40 weight oils available in USA (or more accurately, some of the very best oils period)http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....229.1[/quote]
Chingon wrote:thanks for the answer, so that means screw the manual huh?
The 0w-40 brackets the 5w-30 that means it out flows the 5w-30 in cold and out protects the 5w-30 in warm.
Generally when a oil brackets the factory's recommendation, it is a good choice, assuming there are no stability problems inherent in the larger spread.
In this case the Mobil1 is stable enough, certainly more stable than a dino 5w-30 is.
I concur with johns recommendation especially if your engine is clean.
If u feel it may not be, consider a good oil with good solvency.
Another oil I really like, is ValvolineSynPower, nearly as good as Mobil1 in most areas but appears to have better detergency than Mobil1 in my experience, so consider it if your engine is less than clean.
I have run MOBIL1 0w-40 and its been doping well in Nissan corporation engines according to used oil ananlyses.
But the SynPower is likely nearly as good for lubricity and seems to have better detergency.
Fred...
Wow...so much info...this was helpful. Well, I live in El Paso tx and summers are really hot and winters are really cold. We usually go below 3 deg. celsius. However, this seems to be moderate to kentucky or minnesota. One more thing, I read that the US is kinda worried that some oils won't pass the CAFE mpg. Is this some sort of fuel conservacy test? If so, will I have better luck finding good oils at better prices in mexico? It's 20 mins. away.
-
lessthanjakejohn
- Posts: 4105
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:39 am