best firearms training programs

[themadscientist]

I am looking at the Sig academy. They have a ton of classes but the dates are problematic. Can anyone recommend a good pistol course in the Virginia, Maryland, West Virginia, Pennsylvania area?

[Mr1der]

check out Lethal Force Institute.

Massad Ayoob's own baby.

they usually have classes nationwide too....check out the dates on the website.

http://www.ayoob.com/LFIschedule.html

the website sucks...but I'd place his classes up there in the elite of the elite.

I'm wanting to say if you're a student and get involved in a self defense shooting, he'll even show up as an expert witness free of charge. (something you really really really want)

I'd also advise you get and read all of his books

I'm not really familiar with all the schools up in that area though...the big ones I'd look for are Gunsite, Thunder Ranch and a few more I can't remember now...crap

[4cefed]

Sorry about your schedule conflict. The Sig academy is highly recommended. I took a basic handgun class that I initially rolled my eyes at wen my father signed us up. I am still amazed at the things I learned.

PS, don't' show up with a Gl*ck or the instructors will ridicule you. they left me alone after the shooting portion of the class when I asked them how many jams they had. (I had none.)

[themadscientist]

I don't like Glocks. I know they are popular and I am not saying they're junk, it's just on every point; looks, action, ergos, everything, they make me gag.

I'm more of a 1911 guy. I like the look of the Walthers and the HKs but both have idiosyncratic controls that I am not sure I would be able to live with.

The Kahr seems like a nice gun too but I am reasonably certain this will be in my holster when I attend a class.

[Mr1der]

I'm with TMS.

if you like a Glock, more power to ya, fine guns...just not for me.

<---Springfield XD owner...

I like my tiny little Kahr...I need to shoot it more though...long trigger pull, but light and smooth.

it's hard to beat a 1911 Trigger.

the only thing that can compare is the break on a cocked Smith revolver.

I'd like to go the Sig Academy...always here good things about the class.

reminds me, I need to pick up an older police trade in 226

[themadscientist]

Those XDs look like great guns. I could see a compact .45 XD as a possible. I balked when I heard they were made in Croatia but the accolades just keep coming and they are very attractive design wise. The price is nice too, I could see getting one.

[4cefed]

I don't like Glocks. I know they are popular and I am not saying they're junk, it's just on every point; looks, action, ergos, everything, they make me gag.

I'm more of a 1911 guy. I like the look of the Walthers and the HKs but both have idiosyncratic controls that I am not sure I would be able to live with.

I will never put my life in the hands of a 1911. To me they seem like the Hondas of the gun world. They need lots of money thrown at them before they are good.

My father loved Kimbers. He got an ultra carry a few years ago and we did some shooting in the back yard. I had my Glock 20. After a long afternoon of hearing how f***ing great kimbers are, he went to chamber a round to place back in his holster. It jammed. I looked at him with an evil grin an said "Huh, I've never seen my Glock do that." A week later he was carrying a Glock 23.

Everyone I've ever known and shot with who has 1911s has always had jambs and issues. The "reliable" ones that the LAPD and DEA and whatever uses seem to have work done by armorers or gunsmiths.

I actually found some ammunition that will jam in a Glock. It was made by Tatrimonia (sp?) of Italy and was this horrible soft lead copper washed bullet crap in 9mm. I tried to give it away to a friend who had a Beretta and he wouldn't take it. I found it was a great training aid because every 3-5 rounds one would fail to chamber.

But like you said, if the gun is a total turn off, or the ergonomics are wrong for you (and many people can't point Glocks well) then it's no good to you. If I couldn't have a Glock, I would check out either Sigs, the Springfield XD or H&K. I just can't tolerate safeties and all that decocker crap. Might have to be a wheelgun for me then.

[themadscientist]

I shot a commander framed 1911 a couple of years ago. worked smooth as silk. It wasn't a boutique gun either, basic Springfield Armory if memory serves. I have heard about the Glock's rifling hating soft lead bullets, YIKES!

Whatever I wind up going with, unlike my rifles, it will be after I have actually shot similar guns and found one that pleases me. Each pistol has such a personality, it would be unwise to enter into a along term relationship without having some intimate time.

[4cefed]

That's kind of the problem. Unless you want to drop a lot of money at a range that rents out stuff, or have a bunch of friends with a wide assortment, there's no great way of trying out different guns.

There was another reason I forgot to mention why I prefer the Glocks. The distance from the top of your hand to the center line of the bore is a lot smaller than 1911, that helps a lot with muzzle flip.

I do like to shoot 1911s, there's something satisfying about holding a big metal lump and sending an angry .45 down range, but I just won't carry one.

[Mr1der]

first rule of buying a handgun is get something that's comfortable for you.

preferably from a well known brand.

the HS2000 (this was the XD before Springfield got the rights to import it) is one tough pistol.

occasionally some will have issues, but SA has a spectacular customer service and treats the owners right.

I get scared reading stories about Kahr's CS...I hope my little PM9 doesn't give me trouble.

http://www.xdtalk.com

good place to waste time...TMS, I'll gladly let you shoot my XD-45 at some point...assuming I ever meet you.

they fit my hand very well. I wanna get a Springer Precision trigger kit and nightsights put on mine...a match barrel would be nice too.



you can get them in a couple different color combinations.

the Compact is kinda neat in that it's got a shorter grip but still sports a 4 inch barrel like mine.

the 13rd mags with the extension effectively make it a service model.

[Repo Man]

Some damn good information in this thread. I am proud of you guys.

SIG Academy, LFI, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, all top shelf institutions. I attended Tactical Defense Institute in Southern Ohio and went through their level three handgun course. It's been a long time and when I get the cash, I'm going back for more. They are lesser-known, but VERY effective in marksmanship skill-building, tactics, law, etc.

Linky: http://www.tdiohio.com/

As to weapon selection, James said it best when he said buy a quality pistol that fits your hand well and just "feels right". If a Glock doesn't point well for you, don't buy a Glock. XD's are excellent choices, especially the new M model. A lot of value there for the money.

I think that 1911's have come a LONG way over the last decade and if you buy a Kimber, SIG, S&W or any of the other top-quality brands you won't have problems. I had a Kimber for a while last year and it ran flawlessly.

When I can swing it, I believe this is going to be my next piece:

I go on the SIGSauer website and I get all kinds of goofy.

[Mr1der]

wtf?

is that a single action 220?

I do like me some sigs...I wanna get a P6 now that they've been imported again...about 350 or so this time around instead of 280

still a heck of a nice gun...it's the grandaddy of all the current Sig pistols.

[Repo Man]

Single action 226. They shoot sub 2" groups at 50 yards. Email me regarding a P6.

Here is the IPSC model:

[Mr1der]

kinda neat looking.

I think the next new pistol I'm gonna get is gonna be a Witness Elite Match 10mm



I really want a 10mm and a reloading press

[peytonsawyer]

Do they have anything similar to this for paintball guns?? I know...it's pathetic...but I'm seriously asking..

[Mr1der]

As in how to play?