Yes guys, I like this kind of sh*t, call it rice or whatever, but from watching that Lan Evo III from Initial D and other japan races including Jun's Supra with fire comming out of the exhaust, i think its the ultimate warning to those other NA racers out there. Auto Imaging sells the Bee Racing Misfire System, I cant wait to get my S13 Blacktop into my MCS14 and install that misfire system, of course i need a downpipe and test pipe, Bee Racing states and I quote" Bee RRev Limitter with Mis-firing Action

Use the Bee Racing Rev Limiter to help protect your engine. Instead of causing fuel-cut which can cause stress on the engine, the Rev Limiter cuts the ignition. This action also results in a "mis-firing" simulation. If you have a test pipe on your vehicle, the results would be flames if you load the system enough with fuel. If you still retain your catalytic converters, you will hear a popping sound. The mis-firing control allows you to set the style of mis-firing simulation."

What would you guys think if you saw a SR powered MCS14 downshift at night and have a burst of fire comming out the exhaust?Does anyone know how exactly that works or know of anyone that has one?

Whoa! That sounds insane! Nobody knows anything about this?

Did some research:MISFIRING SYSTEM

aka 'ALS = Anti Lag System', aka 'Bang bang' system

Another solution to turbo lag is known as the misfiring system shown in Sudou's Lancer Evolution III. This is not a normal feature on street cars and is a system usually used in race cars only, particularly turbocharged rally cars. As explained before, turbo systems can suffer from lag effect, especially when the driver lifts his foot off the gas to make a turn. This generates less power which in turn generates less exhaust gas and lowers the pressure needed to drive the turbine. When the turbine looses this pressure it slows down and needs time to spin up again, which creates lag in power. The ALS prevents this by sensing when the driver lifts his foot off the gas/throttle and injects fuel directly into the exhaust system itself. This fuel then detonates creating a mini-explosion in the exhaust manifold and the force of the explosion is enough to maintain boost pressure needed to keep the turbo up to speed even when the car is slowing down. This virtually eliminates all turbo lag and maxmizes power for a car after it brakes and comes out of a turn. These systems are not legal on street cars and due to the constant fuel detonations, eventually destroys a turbo and exhaust system every 500-1000 km in race cars, and likely faster in street cars.

awww crap, damn it, just when i thought it would be bad a** to have that effect in my future Sr, so its not worth getting the misfire system? is there anyway to still get it while maintaining the turbo? i was thinking of getting the HKS 3037 ball bearing GT turbo, very pricey, so i dont want to mess it up.thanks for the info.

No, it would be ineffective if it misfired after the turbine. And if it misfires before the turbine to get the desired effect, you will always cause damage.

damn it, there goes my idea, so i guess Jun can afford to screw up a turbo on that supra huh, if its got that misfire system, so all those racers in japan who have it, are screwing up their turbo systems as well? there is no exception for this to work? bcs i mean, unless they have that kind of dough, damn, that should get expensive after a while.

A) not very many people have it on street cars.

B) most of them are stock turbos, so they can just go to a junkyard and replace it.

C) big companies like JUN can destroy things, it doesn't matter. : )

damn it, damn it damn it, if by any chance Jun is reading this, can i ride in your supra while you are doing a crazy a** drift????hey, a guy can dream huh?

why not just put a spark plug in the straight pipe near the end of the exhaust?

about that anti lag system, couldnt you just rev the motor even while you shift and keep it at the revolution that its going to land on in the next gear? i mean, it would keep the turbo spooled up between gears, or am i missing something here?

Nismo Sr22GT wrote:about that anti lag system, couldnt you just rev the motor even while you shift and keep it at the revolution that its going to land on in the next gear? i mean, it would keep the turbo spooled up between gears, or am i missing something here?

For straight line acceleration your right. The point is for auto-x, rally, hill climb, drifting, and any type of racing where you are constantly letting off the gas for cornering. When you NEED to use the break for the quickest line through a corner... it is damn near impossible to keep the gas pedal down also (yes it can be done, but you sacrifice a certain amount of brake control).

Isnt this called heel-toe??

No, theres an actual misfiring system. However, there is also heel-toe driving. : ) But they are two different things.

Or you could have an oddly tuned(or lack thereof) SR like mine, that misfires all by itself.:thinker

Quote »Use the Bee Racing Rev Limiter to help protect your engine. Instead of causing fuel-cut which can cause stress on the engine, the Rev Limiter cuts the ignition. This action also results in a "mis-firing" simulation. If you have a test pipe on your vehicle, the results would be flames if you load the system enough with fuel. If you still retain your catalytic converters, you will hear a popping sound. The mis-firing control allows you to set the style of mis-firing simulation."[/quote]

Reread that...there's a word in there a few times....SIMULATOR. I don't think its a real ALS system, just something to have fun with and mess up ur car. Here's how I think the bee R works. Say ur going WOT and ur starting to run rich in ur car, normally the car will cut the fuel slightly until the mixture evens out again right? The bee R system works in reverse, if ur running rich and dumping all that extra fuel in ur system, the bee R system cuts the ignition for split second. this load the extra fuel in ur exhaust, etc. when the ignition hits...boooom flames out exhaust. The last line in their description says it all. the mis-firing control ALLOWS you to set the STYLE of mis-firing SIMULATION! Heh maybe I dont know what im talking about at all. But i think it would be cool for someong to buy it, test it out and see how it works, etc. Good luck.

...well you could always jury rig a fuel injector into the exaust and have an ignition system downstream of the injector.........you could even run it behind the cat so you would still be emmisions legal.......still seems like a lot of work for some ricey piece of s***.......it would be easier to throw a bunch of lit fire works up the exaust......whatev :sleep

hi guys, this is my first post on this forum!

as for the misfiring system, it's not really a good idea to get it. i read that it just keeps the engine IDLE @ 2-4k rpm.. and that's IDLE... not even running... and that means stock engines usually die fast.

you will need ultra high quality components and lots of money to make it work.

as for your idea of keeping the RPM levels high, i think your method is called the DOUBLE CLUTCHing method. if i remember correctly, it works by first speeding up in 1st gear and when u're going to change gears, hit the clutch, hit down on the accelerator until desired RPM, and then hit the clutch again and THEN change your Gear and then hit your accelerator.....

i think that might work for your idea....if i'm wrong correct me!

Double clutching is only for down shifting, also called rev matching. What you described is power shifting, and it is totally unneccesary and worthless.

As for the flames - several Japanese companies sell them for around $120 bucks. Basically taps your fuel lines, has an injector, and when you hit the button, triggers a spark plug in the exhaust.

Rice.

Want to know why some cars do that? Run a straight exhaust (no cats at all) on a turbo car, and run rich. When you shift and let off the throttle (assuming you're not speed-shifting, ie, shifting with the throttle floored), you'll shoot flames.

How do I know? My FD did it. 18" flames at every shift where I was over 60% throttle. I ran rich because I hadn't gotten around to tuning the boost or ignition curves before the wreck.

Just tune your car to run really rich (bye-bye gas mileage, and bye-bye a bit of power), and run a downpipe and midpipe combo. Works like a charm. :ylsuper

n00bs, the fast and Furious Messed you guys up so bad....*sigh*:rolleyes No need to double clutch unless you happen to have a 1971 Tractor with no Syncros....so dont worry...When you downshift and match revs so the car doesnt jerk is called heel toeing to match the rev's thus making the car smooth. Its an advance techniqe, dont try if you are just starting to drive a stick....

fast and the furious? i didn't learn it from there

i learned it from while learning how trasmissions and engines work through online research. i guess the lil guide didn't explain enough in depth on that part, it just mentions it a little.

i didnt get any of my info from FF, that fire out the exhaust i was talking about was bcs ive seen it in Option 2 videos and hell, if Jun's Supra has it, it had to be good, and since no one had ever talked about it, i brought it up, oh and this might sound like a rant but im getting tired of all he dumb*sses who say" dude, you should get that silvia motor, the Sr Turbo, or the skyline motor" as if us 240 owners didnt know about it, my reply is" naw man, im way ahead of you, im getting a b16a swap, turbo it, put a ford tranny, and im gonna mount some 22s in the front, and run some skinnies in the back, all hondas are doing it, so ill doit too!!" stupid fu*ks

Daunttless wrote:And if it misfires before the turbine to get the desired effect, you will always cause damage.

Not so sure about that bro - a few weekends ago i was out at the Streets of Willow for the day to do some drifting. During the morning sessions, Rhys Millen (pro rally driver) was out there with his red Evo. Man, he was doing some amazing four wheel drifts. Well we got to talking about his engine setup and he gave me the full rundown. One of the things they have in the car is an anti-lag system (ALS). He even demonstrated it for me - bad ***. One thing i know for sure though - it doesn't cause the damage you're refering to. In fact, they are developing a similar kit for the Evo VIII that is going to be released by Mitsu pretty soon. I doubt that the customers would accept something that blows the turbo (or causes damage).

Tai Mai Shu wrote:n00bs, the fast and Furious Messed you guys up so bad....*sigh*:rolleyes No need to double clutch unless you happen to have a 1971 Tractor with no Syncros....so dont worry...When you downshift and match revs so the car doesnt jerk is called heel toeing to match the rev's thus making the car smooth. Its an advance techniqe, dont try if you are just starting to drive a stick....

you have no clue what double clutching is then. double clutching is the first step to learning proper heel-toe technique. double clutching is about matching engine speed/revs for smoother downshifts. Heel-toe is only used when you are braking, toe on the brake, heel to double clutch and match revs while you are braking. Anytime you just wanna downshift and dont need to brake all ur doing then is double clutching, there is no heel-toe involved because you are just letting the engine naturally slow down till you match revs in a lower gear.

EVERYONE knows f&f is a bunch of crap in the scene where he says "granny shifting, not double clutching like ur supposed to" is a bunch of riced bs, just to make the kiddies sound cool like they know what they are talking about.

I do believe double clutching was also something used by truckers and tractors that had no synchros like bwalker240 said. Last used in the 1960's or something like that. There are probably two definitions now so no need to the real 'double clutching' was something from the past and a lack of technology.

SpeedRacer1 wrote:I do believe double clutching was also something used by truckers and tractors that had no synchros like bwalker240 said. Last used in the 1960's or something like that. There are probably two definitions now so no need to the real 'double clutching' was something from the past and a lack of technology.

Not just tractors... but most busses and 18 wheelers use the literal meaning of "double clutching". They have to use the clutch to shift out of gear, and clutch again to shift back into gear. It has nothing to do with this other meaning of double-clutching...... that I am still yet to see someone give a good explaination of. I'm not sure what the hell it is.... I don't claim to be some kind of "drifter" or pro-racer.... but I sure as hell can drive may car.... and I do hill-climb racing.... none of the other drivers that helped me along ever discussed such a thing. What we do is basically uphill, paved rally racing, so heel-toe and power braking for cornering all come into play.... but not "double clutching"...... so what is it.... ?

Hi guys , this is my first post here

so that's all the story behind double clutching is it? cheee ..... i'm do it everyday to and from work ! :ylsuper

huh , learn something new everywhere

btw, the ALS system, anyone check out autronic management system? i think it's pretty advance. it utilize your original injector but the anti lag is induce by firing a DELAYED spark in a randomly choosen cylinder when the exhaust values open, therfore creting the explosion. u can set by rpm, a switch to trigger it on and off, there's even a cooling map whne the EGT runs too high to protect your expensive turbo. thing is I don't it will split fire like the one we see on fast and furious. just a big big spark at the tip of the exhaust.

and it idles well as well. I have a friend having it in his S14. it's a street car though.

I think that wasting the money that an anti-lag system (if there truly is such a thing for streetable cars) would probably cost is a bit asinine on a street car - the hundreth or thousandth of a second it would save you on a lap is useless on the street.

Better put that money to use on tuning your setup. If you build a setup that is well matched for street use (proper impeller/compressor size ratio, exhaust backpressure, flow, etc), then you would have little or no need for such a system.

Again, if you want the flames, run boost, run rich, and run a straight through exhaust. You'll have all the flames you want.

An often unmentioned downside is the huge amount of carbon buildup on your tip (forget ever seeing it shiny again without some type of Simple Green style treatment), your bumper, and where it begins to MELT your bumper.

maineimport wrote:Not just tractors... but most busses and 18 wheelers use the literal meaning of "double clutching". They have to use the clutch to shift out of gear, and clutch again to shift back into gear. It has nothing to do with this other meaning of double-clutching...... that I am still yet to see someone give a good explaination of. I'm not sure what the hell it is.... I don't claim to be some kind of "drifter" or pro-racer.... but I sure as hell can drive may car.... and I do hill-climb racing.... none of the other drivers that helped me along ever discussed such a thing. What we do is basically uphill, paved rally racing, so heel-toe and power braking for cornering all come into play.... but not "double clutching"...... so what is it.... ?

Maine....the "other" double clutching is just dumb as sht ricer bs. I'm glad that you and a few other seem to know what double clutching is. Most newbs think it's power shifting (which doesn't really help you) or Heel&Toe (which doesn't actually use your heel or your toe)...damn...so many dumb asses.... Swift Drift I"m looking at you (maybe if your posts were a little bit more readable you wouldn't come off as such a meathead...no 'fence)

Team503 wrote:I think that wasting the money that an anti-lag system (if there truly is such a thing for streetable cars) would probably cost is a bit asinine on a street car - the hundreth or thousandth of a second it would save you on a lap is useless on the street.

Better put that money to use on tuning your setup. If you build a setup that is well matched for street use (proper impeller/compressor size ratio, exhaust backpressure, flow, etc), then you would have little or no need for such a system.

Again, if you want the flames, run boost, run rich, and run a straight through exhaust. You'll have all the flames you want.

An often unmentioned downside is the huge amount of carbon buildup on your tip (forget ever seeing it shiny again without some type of Simple Green style treatment), your bumper, and where it begins to MELT your bumper.

ya, all you said make sense, u spend thousand and thousand of $$$ on bigger turbo, theory this and that but we must not forget the "brain" the coordinate the work of your spending together. then one would waste all the $$ he spend on these expensive performance parts yet neglect fuel and timing. after all bigger turbo would end up , like you say "would probably cost is a bit asinine on a street car - the hundreth or thousandth of a second it would save you on a lap is useless on the street."



Hugh amount of carbon build up??? does any one who modify their car resulted in a nice shiny exhaust tip??? or do u think just because it's an anti lag system , the car will be running very rich constantly? I doubt so.

anyway, it's his spare car he's toying with and it's his car, it does gives us soem thing to talk about and the possibilities.

street car i meant that it can still drive together with other cars on the road and able to handle a corner not like a drag car.