Bearing help

[Ron240sx]

Im trying to figure out what grade bearings i need for my rod and main. The crankshaft its self is a standard ca18de crank. on the front counter balance its stamped in dash marks rather than numbers on the top row. The top row claims reading left to right with the engine upside down dash marking I, I, I, I, II
1 1 1 1 This is what the row under it looks like only its stamped in number markings instead of dash markings like the top row

Now along the side of block on the oil pans mating surface (from cylinder 1 first) its stamped 1,1,2,1,1

This is where im trying to verify information. And if im correct. From the markings to me it seemed i needed for my MAIN bearings Grade 2 at the front of the engine, then grade2 for the second cap, then grade 3 for the middle bearing, grade 2 for the forth cap, then at the back of the engine i need grade 3. Is this correct or did i interpret the coding wrong?

As for the RODS I have on the first rod cap a 1, the second cap 3, third cap has a 1, and the forth cap has a 1. Now if i add that with my crank stamp i have Grade 2 for rod bearing number 1. I have grade 4 for cyl 2, then grade 2 for cylinder 3, then grade 2 for cylinder 4. Is this correct? or am i doing it wrong?

[float_6969]

Top row on crank is the main journals, bottom row is the rod journals.

The markings on the block are for the main bores, there should also be marks on the rods themselves for the rod bores.

To get the grade, you simply add the numbers together for each journal/bore combination. For your mains it goes like this;

1 1 1 1 2
+ 1 1 2 1 1
-------------------
2 2 3 2 3 So when you order the main bearings, you need 3 x grade 2 and 1 x grade 3, and 1 x grade 3 CENTER/THRUST. Luckily for you, I'm in the middle of this now and can even give you part numbers.

3 x grade 2 = 3 x 12207-D4202
1 x grade 3 = 1 x 12207-D4203
1 x grade 3 center/thrust= 1 x 12261-D4203

For the rod housings, you have something off. The rod bearings only come in 0,1 and 2. The rods have 2 marks on them. One side is the placement of that rod (ie, cylinder 1, cyldiner 2, cylinder 3, cylinder 4). On my rods, those are punched with an actual number. On the opposite side is the housing marks. Those should be punched in a roman numeral. On mine, they're ALL punched with "I" (roman numeral 1). I have the same marks on the crank as you, so they should all be grade 2 on my motor. Unfortunately for me, somebody ground my rod journals at some point and my rod bearings don't match the marks anymore. Luckily for me, if I move the rods around to different cylinders (the rods have been balanced as well as the crank) then they all take grade 2 bearings.

PLEASE NOTE MY OTHER THREAD GOING ON RIGHT NOW, power-enterprise-bearings-are-discontinued-t589094.html, Nissan is being stupid with the rod bearings. I know that if you order grade 2 rod bearings, they sell them each, not as a set, so you need 8 (2 of each grade for each rod). But if you order all 8 at once, they throw them in a bag LOOSE and they're ruined by the time they show up to you. My Nissan dealer has told me the only way to get around this is to order 1 bearing per week, for 8 weeks.

That being said, look at your rods again, and make sure you're looking at the right marks on the rods. Also note that the rods have a left and right orientation inside the motor. Not only are they supposed to be place on a certain cylinder, but there is a forward and backward direction to them as well.

[Ron240sx]

I was looking at the wrong number for my rods. There just like yours all stamped with a roman numeral 1. Anyways I tried contacting my local nissan dealership and they told me they were unable to get any main or rod bearings? How can your dealership source them but we cant here? Im not sure what to do if i cant find OEM bearings... Any input?

[Ron240sx]

can anyone help me with sourcing these bearings needed? Id pay decent money to have them. All help is appreciated.

[float_6969]

Are you in the US? If so, you have to give them the part numbers. I don't think most dealer can look up that far back anymore. Either that or they're just being lazy. The part number for the Grade 2 rod bearing is;
12111-D4202 YOU NEED 8 OF THESE! And you can't order them all at once, or they will come loose in a bag and be ruined by the time you get them. If you go to the dealer and they're still giving you s***, LMK and I'll have my dealer order them and you can paypal me the money. I think I still have the invoice, so I can get pretty close on prices.

[float_6969]

Weeelllll, you may be right about them being discontinued. I went online yesterday and ordered grade 2 rod bearings from 3 different Nissan dealers online. (I was going to order one bearing from multiple dealers online in hopes that I could get a set of bearings faster and not have them all be damaged). One of the dealers emailed me back and said the part was discontinued. We'll see what the other's say.

If I got the last set of grade 2 rod bearings in the US, and the damn things got ruined in shipping, I'm gonna be pissed.

[Ron240sx]

Yeah man im up in Omaha, NE. But i had the same idea you did. contacted all three local dealers. All said they cant get any and there discontinued. Off topic one parts guy told me that ca18de didn't stand for a 1.8L. I simply told him your wrong but im not here to argue that topic. Ha.

Anyways I did find one place that had a full set of rod bearings. So I get ahold him (785) area code? Anyways he's like "yeah I got 4 full rod sets here, hold on ill get you a price...." He follows with the bombshell "sorry man there on special order for someone else whos already paid" F**k

Idk i have a set of clevites that are too small. so the crank would have to be cut. Id really prefer not to, considering that crankshaft looked like a virgin and it measured like one too...

Heres an idea, and I hate to sound like a creeper, but what are the odds you could contact THEMADSCIENTIST? Isnt he in japan?
And where's DEE? havent seen that guy on here forever? I tried contacting him via email but I got no reply. Damn spam box.
We cant be completely out of bearings in the whole U.S? So the obvious question Should we do?

[float_6969]

LOL, that HAD to be my local dealer. That's the only Nissan dealer in that area code, so those were my bearings.

Right now I'm waiting on another Nissan dealer. He said if I could get him a VIN, they could upgrade the order to a "customer care order"? I've never heard of that, but he said he'd have more info in a few days. I'm HOPING that Nissan North America can bring some stock in from some other dealer/warehouse in the world.

[Ron240sx]

You know whats funny? I wondered if those bearings were yours. I even told the guy id pay a higher price. No deal. As for customer care order? Idk for certain. I use to work for a nissan dealership as a tech up until a couple months back. Youll have to let me know asap on that. I dont understand why japan couldnt be contacted?? Id think with multiple cars equipped with a CA of some sort there would have to be plenty over there. Versus our 88 nissan pulsar.

I need some bearings. Im sure you know the feeling? I read you were using clevite 77s prior? Whats the deal with those? Didnt they work well for your engine?

Im tellin you man, japan has to have a stock pile of them. But how do we get ahold of them?

[Izento]

Right now I'm waiting on another Nissan dealer. He said if I could get him a VIN, they could upgrade the order to a "customer care order"?

You sure they wont get you KA bearings then if you provide the VIN for your american car? Thinking you are an idiot for ordering bearings for some random engine? Sounds like a bad mistake waiting to happen.

[float_6969]

You know whats funny? I wondered if those bearings were yours. I even told the guy id pay a higher price. No deal. As for customer care order? Idk for certain. I use to work for a nissan dealership as a tech up until a couple months back. Youll have to let me know asap on that. I dont understand why japan couldnt be contacted?? Id think with multiple cars equipped with a CA of some sort there would have to be plenty over there. Versus our 88 nissan pulsar.

I need some bearings. Im sure you know the feeling? I read you were using clevite 77s prior? Whats the deal with those? Didnt they work well for your engine?

Im tellin you man, japan has to have a stock pile of them. But how do we get ahold of them?

If this doesn't work out, I have a few more avenues to pursue. We'll see if it comes to that.

The Clevite's were fine, but I wanted better control over my oil clearances. My experience is also that aftermarket bearings tend to run on the loose side. I know why they do this, but someone modified my rod journals already, so it's already pretty loose. Even with a grade 2 rod bearing, and moving rods around to different journals, the TIGHTEST I can get the oil clearances on the rods is .00018". That's the limit of the factory clearances. EDIT: I was remembering wrong. I looked at my blue-print sheet and the grade 2 put me at .0016". Still looser than I wanted to run I've had low oil pressure every time I've had an engine built and I'm sick of it. The only time this engine didn't have low oil pressure was when I first installed it. It obviously had Nissan spec oil clearances then.

Right now I'm waiting on another Nissan dealer. He said if I could get him a VIN, they could upgrade the order to a "customer care order"?

You sure they wont get you KA bearings then if you provide the VIN for your american car? Thinking you are an idiot for ordering bearings for some random engine? Sounds like a bad mistake waiting to happen.

When I ordered the bearings, I gave them the PN I wanted. They emailed me back asking for the VIN. I responded telling them I had a swapped motor and that the VIN of my vehicle didn't use the PN I was wanting to order. They said it didn't matter. So I gave them the VIN and explained the rest of the situation. They responded and said they upgraded it to a customer care order with my VIN and that instead of the 1 bearing that I ordered, they would try and get me 8 so I would have a set and that if they came in, they would inspect them carefully and re-package them if necessary to make sure they stayed in good shape this time. The guy I'm talking to at this dealer seems to know his stuff, so I'm hopeful. If it works out, I'll definitely let you guys know and we'll get some more bearings coming. I might even order and extra set, just incase.

[Ron240sx]

Well let me know if that works out for you. Are you getting the main bearings as well as rods? Id be interested in getting both. And if possible i'd like 2 sets of each. Looking forward to hearing from you. And even more ready to get this engine running

[float_6969]

I had no problem getting the main bearings. Grade part numbers are as follows;

The first number is the grade, after the dash is the part number ie; grade - part-number
Main Bearing (non-thrust) PN's:
0 - 12207-D4200
1 - 12207-D4201
2 - 12207-D4202
3 - 12207-D4203
4 - 12207-D4204

Main Thrust bearing PN's:
0 - 12261-D4200
1 - 12261-D4201
2 - 12261-D4202
3 - 12261-D4203
4 - 12261-D4204

And just for ease of searching, the rod bearings;
Rod Bearing PN's
0 - 12111-D4200
1 - 12111-D4201
2 - 12111-D4202

[float_6969]

OH! I do have a minor/good update. I found a set of grade 0 rod bearings on ebay. Grade 0 would put me just over the stock clearance (.0019") BUT they were Calico CT-1 coated. This adds about 0.00025"-0.00030" of thickness to the bearings, bringing the thickness to that of a grade 2 bearing! I just got done mic'ing them and they ALL came in between .05930"-.05935", which is exactly where I would want them to have .0016" of rod bearing clearance. But now I have another dilemma, LOL. The only reason I went with .0016" of rod bearing clearance was because that was the thickest stock bearing. So if I can get a set of grade 2's still, and then have them coated, that would put me right at the oil clearance on the rods that I was really wanting (right in the middle of the range of standard clearance). So the waiting continues...

[float_6969]

And another minor update. I've been told that Nissan released 4 of the 8 bearings off of backorder and they will be released on 6/13/14. No news on the other 4 bearings. I'll update again if I hear anything else.

[float_6969]

And I just had an idea.

I've noticed that regardless of the grade of the bearing (I have all 3 sizes in front of me). The stamped part number is the same; 12111-D4200. Then depending on the actual thickness, they're color coded. Grade 0 is no color, Grade 1 is Brown, Grade 2 is Green. The way they're color coded is as simple as a colored sharpie/metal stain on the thin side of the bearing. So then I got to thinking, how does Nissan control the thickness so well? So I went and measured my ACL Duraglide's that I have outside. Some of them are on the loose side and the variance is more than I would want (that's why I'm not running them), BUT as I was measuring them, I absent mindedly sorted them into comparable thicknesses. Then the thought struck me. I'll bet this is exactly what Nissan does to come up with the bearing grades. They make a zillion bearings, probably aiming for a grade 1. Some are a little thin (Grade 0), some are just right (Grade 1), some are a little thick (Grade 2). So then they sort them into grades afterwards. There is nothing that says that aftermarket bearings couldn't be done the same way. If I had 2 or 3 more boxes of these Duraglides, I'm sure I could come up with a complete set of Grade 2 bearings. It wouldn't be cheap, but I'm not sure that it would be any more money than the Nissan graded bearings. That being said, I won't do it with the Duraglides. After comparing the Duraglides to the Nissan bearing, the Nissan bearing is a superior design. BUT I've never seen the ACL Race bearings. I suspect they are on par with the Nissan bearing. Still not cheap, but CERTAINLY a faster way of dealing with the situation.

Anyway, just one of my many ridiculous ideas.

[mdb4879]

So, with as popular and capable the Clevite 77's are, how do you feel they compare to the OEM Nissan bearings?

[mdb4879]

I jumped in without realizing how much had gone on since I last read this thread. Just a side note, when I put my motor together I think the clearances were right at the limit, if not a little over (0.002" iirc, but that may have been the rods. And I used plastigauge and didn't mic them) Regardless, I had great oil pressure. Dummy light went out the second it started, had 60psi at 2500-3000rpm and like 20psi at idle, both after the motor was at NOT. The motor ran great for 10,000 miles before the adapter fitting for my oil pressure sending unit snapped out of the block on the interstate. I would've liked to have had them tighter, but it was all I could work with without cutting the crank. By my machine shop's math they suggested a clearance right at the edge of what the FSM calls for, if not a little looser, but I still would've preferred to stay within spec. It seemed to work out fine for me, though.

Anyways, I can PM you the VIN from my Pulsar if it helps any. I scrapped my 1988 car the other day, but the crank is the same from the CA16, so my 1987 VIN should do you just fine.

[float_6969]

So, with as popular and capable the Clevite 77's are, how do you feel they compare to the OEM Nissan bearings?

The Clevite's were fine. Their embeddability (one of the main advantages of a Aluminum) is what saved my crankshaft when the oil filter failed. I didn't own a mic when I ran them, just plastigauged the engine. IIRC, there was one main bearing that was tight (barely in spec spec), one too loose (out of spec), and all the rods were loose (way out of spec, over .002" IIRC). After mic'ing the engine, all of those results make sense now. If you were to use a single thickness bearing and put it in this motor, that is the exact results you would get. That says to me that the bearing thickness variance is low on the Clevites, which is a good thing normally. For my motor it doesn't work. Also, after seeing the stock bearings, none of the aftermarket bearings seem to have the same size chamfer on the edges for the fillet in the crank. The ACL races may be different. I've also discovered that the Duraglides are now made in China, not Australia, and numerous forums were seeing the same thing I saw, HUGE variance in bearing thickness. My variance was .0005" between the thickest and thinnest bearing halves in the Duraglides. NOT acceptable. Also, the Duraglides had NO CHAMFER whatsoever. I don't have a set of Clevites in front of me, but I don't THINK they had much, if any, of a chamfer either.

I jumped in without realizing how much had gone on since I last read this thread. Just a side note, when I put my motor together I think the clearances were right at the limit, if not a little over (0.002" iirc, but that may have been the rods. And I used plastigauge and didn't mic them) Regardless, I had great oil pressure. Dummy light went out the second it started, had 60psi at 2500-3000rpm and like 20psi at idle, both after the motor was at NOT. The motor ran great for 10,000 miles before the adapter fitting for my oil pressure sending unit snapped out of the block on the interstate. I would've liked to have had them tighter, but it was all I could work with without cutting the crank. By my machine shop's math they suggested a clearance right at the edge of what the FSM calls for, if not a little looser, but I still would've preferred to stay within spec. It seemed to work out fine for me, though.

Anyways, I can PM you the VIN from my Pulsar if it helps any. I scrapped my 1988 car the other day, but the crank is the same from the CA16, so my 1987 VIN should do you just fine.

The first time I had the engine built, it was with Clevite's as well. The clearances wouldn't have been any different, I wouldn't think, and that engine lasted 40k miles before the oil filter failed. That being said, it was noisy and had low oil pressure.

Apparently my VIN was enough, because they released 4 bearings. The question will be if they're ruined when they get here.

[Ron240sx]

So I've been watching those grade 0 bearings that were coated all week. Finally came pay day. I got the last set on there this morning. Next week I'm getting the main bearings taken care of. So im hopeful that in the next couple weeks it should assembled and ready to get put back in the car. If only money wasnt limited for this project....

After the bearing problem's resolved im looking for a 2 bolt flange external wastegate with around a 20psi spring. You wouldnt happen to have something like that i could buy from you?

[float_6969]

Congrats! I'm sorry you're having to wait to buy stuff, but I had zero issues with the mains, so I think you're going to be OK.

I also have another minor update. Since I've found out these bearings are a pain/impossible to get, I went to Hordecon 5 and have been ordering s*** like crazy. So I did some re-calculating and the Grade 1's will work for me, they just put me at the limit of the standard range, maybe a half a 10 thousandth over, which is nothing to worry about. And if I get them coated, they'll be well inside the OK range. So I checked with Nissan and there are 18 of the grade 1's available. So I ordered 2 that I found on ebay this week (1 from 2 different places) and they were both in great shape when they came in. So I had my dealer order 1 for me as well. He said it came in yesterday. If it's in good shape, I think I will finish out the set in grade 1's, have them (and the main bearings) coated and call it a day.

That being said, I wouldn't do what I'm doing with the factory marks. I measured all of my clearances down to .00005" and then figured bearing sizes backwards from that. It's tedious work, but unless a bearing is the wrong size (and so far, every nissan bearing I've measured has matched the Graded size perfectly), my oil clearances should be right where I want them.

I'm no help on the EWG. The only one I have is the one for my HKS manifold, and it's a 4 bolt.

[Ron240sx]

great news. I got the last coated grade 0 bearings available. Mic'd them myself. Woo Hoo. all in spec. Finally i can get this going. Going to call nissan on the mains today and get this thing going. As soon as the engines assembled all that's left is EWG and nistune. Pictures soon maybe...

[Ron240sx]

update. I got all my main bearings taken care of. At first I was told they had a a whole set available. That didnt sound right. I gave him the parts number and found out some interesting information. They had the grade 3 and the center thrust bearing available but the grade 2 were not in stock but not discontinued. I was told they were on backorder. Thanks to a parts man who liked his job and was quite interested in my project, he helped me out a ton. We got things squared away and friday I should have a ETA on the those bearings. So im hopeful within the next month i can assemble the bottom. Finally things feel like there coming together. I just need to get ambitious and post some photos on here. Float Your helps been fully appreciated and im sure theres a few future members that learned a thing or two about the bottom end bearings.

Until the photos or the next current update...

[float_6969]

I have an update as well. I just got an email from the other Nissan deal and they've released ALL of the 8 grade 2 rod bearings I need! They're supposed to be released on Friday (the 13th). Once the dealer receives them, they're supposed to inspect them to see if they're in good condition. If they are in good shape, I will get them after that.

And after all of this, my engine builder says the rods can be modified to reduce the clearance so I can use whatever bearings I want, LOL! Oh well, I'll wait for the Grade 2's to come in and go from there. I'm just ready to be done with finding parts and just put the damn thing together.

[float_6969]

I got an email from the dealer yesterday. They said all 8 bearings were received, and all 8 were in 8 separate packages and none of them were damaged! They said they would ship them out today, so I should see them next week.

[Izento]

Nice. Hopefully they will learn from this and start wrapping the bearings properly for ALL engines.

[float_6969]

Bearings came in yesterday. They came in 8 separate packages and were all in perfect condition! Now for assembly and to confirm oil clearances.

[Ron240sx]

Well I happened to get a call on friday. It was the dealer stating all of my main bearings were in. I just got them picked up today. Assembly next this coming weekend. If all is well I've got a nistune program to purchase and we'll be on the road. Its about time anyways. This things been sitting for over 2 years. On the rods there stamped on one side in a roman numeral. Does that side of the rod face the intake or exhaust side?

[float_6969]

The oil hole and the cylinder number stamped on the rod should be on the intake side of the motor (so the roman numeral should be on the exhaust side). Refer to page EM-41 in the FSM.