Battle plan

[Q45tech]

" think the entire approach to this car is not so good, from the "repairs in a can" to the idea of hotwiring the cooling fan.

Now I realize you may not be able to afford lavish repairs and so I'm not putting you down for doing what you have to do out of necessity, but really, if you can afford to deal with the car in a proper manner, you should find a good mechanic and then take a step by step approach to solving these problems one by one in terms of priority.

The hard shifting and "dieseling" (post-ignition) may be related to a very high idle speed. The overheating is another issue entirely, and the valve tapping another issue after that.

So I'd suggest a "battle plan" for this car. So far it sounds like you are distributing your resources haphazardly and you may not be focusing on any one problem enough to fix that one problem. "

above from the HOST of Edmunds Maintenance and Repair Forum.

Triage is the name of the game but owners don't want to hear we found $6,000 worth of things wrong with their recently purchased beauty. The car needs more than the purchase price.

But a $50,000 car that has depreciated to $6,000 [loss $44,000] probably needs a quarter of the difference or $11,000 to be 100%. Hopefully the previous owners or the warranty has spent half the amount in the previous 9 years [135k].

I am speaking of parts replacement not Quick wear items [not tires, brakes , shocks, upper links] .... HARD parts like AC compressor, radiator, alternator, master cylinder.

[Mayhem_J30]

this is why my thinkings of purchasing used cars is changing so drastically. I would guess i very small percentage of vehicle owners in the US spend the money to have the proper maintenance work performed. When you buy that used car you don't know if it's going to be good for another 150K or it's a ticking time bomb waiting to have your wallet for lunch. Paying the price for a new car just might be worth a piece of mind. Knowing that when you buy it you start with a clean slate and you can start babying it from day one so you'll still have it with you on it's last day, 300K miles later!

[Q451990]

Or at least a good pre-inspection... I've you're very familiar with a particular model, you may be able to get by without it, but in most cases it's a good idea pay an expert to look it over for you and also advise you what can be expected to break in the next 30K.

Heath

[Sopdadope]

Or you can be someone like me, who work part-time at an automotive parts retailer and gets 25% off of such items as compressors, condensors, evaporators, receiver/dryers, alternators. It's a bonus when the parts are usually half the price of the dealers' cost anyway.

[greg_atlanta]

this is why my thinkings of purchasing used cars is changing so drastically...... When you buy that used car you don't know if it's going to be good for another 150K or it's a ticking time bomb waiting to have your wallet for lunch.

My '92 Q purchase 3 years ago was, in retrospect, not a wise decision. (Too late to bail now).

$9500 initial cost (incl tax, title, etc.)..... appx $3000 in repairs each year over 3 years..... so that's $18,500 in 3 years, or $514 per month....still about $2000 in needed repairs/maintenance over next year + $2000 for A/C if I opt to fix... so I really only come out ahead on year 4 or 5. The first three years could be WORSE than a new car payments since you have payments AND repairs (not to mention the risk of losing all the upkeep if car gets totaled in an accident)

Now the trick is to find a new car I like for $500/mo plus a reasonable downpayment...



YES, the economics have changed!!!

[aaacomp]

The $500 mo would get you a M45!!>>>>.:thumbup

[maxnix]

Maybe on a lease, but not to own.

[Q45tech]

So if you fixed the AC and others you would be at about $600 per month then droping to $500 month after year 4.Sounds right to me.

Old Lux cars are only about $200-$300 per month cheaper to own than new $50-60,000 cars. Most don't understand [can't afford] and just let them fall apart.

Nice to know if you had bought a 92 LS400 [due to higher retail price ] you would have paid out the same. We actually do more Lexus AC work than on a Q and it cost more. Not to mention much more expensive suspension replacements [but the shocks are cheaper] and the electroluminesent displays.

I would have been happy if the last 10 years only cost $500/mo instead of closer to $650 plus gas/insu/tag.

What worries me is the newer cars are not built as well as the 94-95 years of the same models.....lots more gadgets but less durability and cheap interiors..........plus the use of lighter structural materials .....aluminum vs steel.

You either learn to be a technican or you educate yourself to make more money to pay a technican or you drive a Korean throw away car.

[greg_atlanta]

I'm now more tempted to look at a Maxima since I know the incentives are much better (can probably get a good one for under $25K regardless of sticker price).

I guess it's the responsible thing to do. Tired of being poor all the time!!!

[911/Q45]

You still have to do maintenance on a new car, are oil changes, tires, brakes, belts figured into the equation? Also in CA the license and insurance on a newer car are significantly higher.

[Q45tech]

Bet it [Maxima] still cost you $500 per month [over 3 years] [deprec+ maint+ interest+tax + downpayment prorated+ extra insurance]...... no repairs just 15k and 30k services....but the gas mileage will be a little better.

Honda Civics [$25k TCTO] and Sentras [$28k TCTO] are are a little less expensive.....by 13,000 to 10,000 less to own.

You got your $500,$600$700$800$900$1000 and your $1100 per month TRUE COST TO OWN new cars:http://www.edmunds.com/new/200...n0648

0.51 per mile based on 15k per year or $12,735 the 1st year dropping to the mid $6,000 in years 3,4, & 5.........$38,000 over 5 years.

[DrewQ45]

My personal take on buying used revovles around my willingness or ability to perform repairs myself.

Obviously I greatly offset the cost of repairs by doing the work myself, however many of us are not prepared to do this or carry a distaste for performing such labor. "Simple" tasks such as oil changes, new brakes, etc., add up when you're coming out the pocket each time not to mention the big jobs.

I've found that the Q45 has been my most difficult vehicle to work on to date. The over engineering of these cars provides an enjoyable driving experience but wreaks havoc with the DIY'er. I'm constantly searching for ways to speed up maintentance. I now have the oil change procedure down to roughly 20 mins (done from above) and the brakes I can almost do in my sleep.

The plugs... well, those just take as long as they take and I'm glad I have a second vehicle during those times. (smile) I can say with total confidence that the engineers of these vehicles made a conscious decision to make things as difficult possible for the DIY'er forcing the individual to come running back to the dealer bankbook in hand. Or they figured only the rich would own these vehicles and wanted to make sure they were aquainted with the dealer. Had I not the determination, equipment, access to a lift and the love of working on my automobile, I would not own a used Q45 (90 to boot).

Oh, let me not forget to give boards such as these a great amount of credit for saving me some major $$$. That should have been put at the top of the list.

..Drew....

[VimyJ]

One must pay a little extra when one is to enjoy the fine qualities of these fine motor cars. This is underlined when looking at the the third price on the gasoline menu at every fillup. Would you really rather drive a Buick?

[greg_atlanta]

One must pay a little extra when one is to enjoy the fine qualities of these fine motor cars.

But after a while it gets frustrating blowing so much money on a good car, new or used. Almost worthwhile to drive a beater car for a few years and (hopefully) save up enough money for a big downpayment on a "fine motor car" the next time!!

[VimyJ]

But after a while it gets frustrating blowing so much money on a good car, new or used. Almost worthwhile to drive a beater car for a few years and (hopefully) save up enough money for a big downpayment on a "fine motor car" the next time!!

The question is value. I do some rather large commutes putting on 25 to 30K per year and the value of arriving fresh and ready is a tremendous asset of the J30. I had a nice Accord LXI before the J but there is no comparison to the feeling of well being in a J. It can easily handle the roads and their attendant dangers. My J is a "working" car in as much as I rely upon it to safely and comfortably transport me to my engagments. Going to a "throw away" Korean go box may make some sense economically in the quarterly report but for long term performance, safety and fun there is now no substitute. Love to drive my J30t!:yesnod

[Q45tech]

When I was consulting for Phone Companies, I used to get up every Monday [at 4 AM] and drive 4 hours to Charlotte then in the afternoon drive to Raleigh have a late meeting. Thru the week I might be in Wilmington or Asheville or the outer banks, return to Charlotte [print a report & say Hi] and drive home Friday night at 5 Pm. These were 1,000-1,400 mile weeks 6 months at a time. Worked at home the other 6 months then start all over again the next year. In 3.3 years put 100,000 miles on the Q which started the journey at 99,000 miles.

But I charge 45 cents per mile for consulting! So the client paid $34,000 for my Q's suffering but the Q took $19k in repairs and maintenance and over $7,000 in gasoline so I just about broke even.Before I changed to Michelins I was rebalancing the tires every Saturday morning.....it got to the point I could wait for my 3 week oil change what a miracle.

Shall we saw the North Carolina roads were anything but smooth!The Q survived and so did I and made me $400,000.....one of the reasons I like it so much.

If a car is just transportation to an office job and never gets used to make you money I can see how it could be considered a worthless drain.

[Q45tech]

By the way the President and SVP [of this independent phone company] both had 1988 BMW Euro M5 5 speeds [in 1997-98-99] [they also had lots of other expensive cars] that they used to traverse North Carolina as they tended to drive alot to little towns and a 10 year old BMW proved that they were frugle and could be trusted with OPM.When you find a car you like and it does the job for YOU what it costs to maintain is insignficant.

[greg_atlanta]

If a car is just transportation to an office job and never gets used to make you money I can see how it could be considered a worthless drain.

Exactly!

I have a 10 mile one-way commute to work and otherwise just run around town on so-so local roads. I've gotten bored with road trips.

Slight chance I may get a sales job in the future and have to wheel people around in style, but I'll deal with that once the money starts rolling in.

But not sure I see myself in a Toyota Echo.

[landtodd]

My personal take on buying used revovles around my willingness or ability to perform repairs myself.

Quite true (and sad)! Gen-1 Q45s are largely disposable if your only option is to pay for dealer service. One big repair, and suddenly you're looking at doubling your investment! How many $3000 years will the "average" recent owner put up with? If I had to pay my dealer's labor, I would be about $5000/year into this car, and that would be a little crazy. I would have started scrimping on preventive maintenance by this time (it's all been preventive maintenance), and who knows what predicament that would have landed me in?

At least people in Atlanta have T3 . . . lower cost, superior service.

Greg -- except for the A/C, you've spent the Big Bucks already. Drive the car, get your money out of your superior maintenance. Or sell the car to me, now.

Still, whatcha gonna buy for $500/month that's quite as satisfying? I priced out a new NEON (for Pete's Sake) this week, and it's 3 years @ $400! I'll keep the Q for another 100,000, thanks!

[landtodd]

Dennis' mentions of triage strikes home. I completed "disaster prevention" (chain guides, trans cooler, rearend lube), went on to things that could end up expensive (fuel pump, under-plenum), and now I'm down to comfort/convenience (wheels, tires, suspension). The result is that I have a solid platform that I'm not afraid of spending a little money on.

Hit the things that could kill the car first, the potentially expensive things second, save comfort and convenience for the rest of your life with the car.

[DAEDALUS]

I feel the exact same way. I can't believe it, but there are more things crossed off the to-do list than there are things remaining. It was getting tiring working on the car almost every weekend, but I'm at the point where I can actually use most of my weekends for leisurely activities. Call me a nut, but some of my leisurely activites include raising the hood of the Q just to check the fluids, admire the engine, and do some dusting. I'm always looking for the items that need to be added to the to-do list. At this point my biggest fear with the car is that I will get into an accident with it. I've lived in L. A. for 4 years and I have already seen more idiot drivers here than in the 26 years previous to my moving here. That fear alone is maybe the biggest reason I don't drop some serious money on the Q to find out what another stable of horsies would feel like under the hood.

[landtodd]

Exactly, D . . . I get nervous driving really valuable machinery.

Have an accident in a car worth $50K and say the insurance company spends $30K fixing it -- you know it will never be right, and you're stuck with it! I'm $5500 into my Q (purchase + preventive maintenance), and that's a risk I can live with.

After all, I live in a college town, and you'd think some of these kids have never seen water falling from the sky.

[911/Q45]

I'm in a college town too Todd, supposedly one of the most selective in the CA state system. I have yet to see a Cal Poly kid riding a bicycle with a helmet on and about half of them smoke???

[DDWQ45T]

Q45Tech is right, there ain't no free lunch! You just need to look realistically at what the car you want to drive's total cost of ownership is over the time you intend to keep it. I think the 3-4 year old luxo cars, if you find one that has been maintained, are about the optimum for a 5 year period of ownership. They don't beat new over a longer period by much, if any, though.

The ability to reduce repair costs by DIY, or parts discounts would have an influence towards the used car part of the equation, but you have to enjoy the work to balance it against what your time might be worth doing something else pleasant of profitable.

As mentioned previously, finance charges, taxes, and higher registration charges are also a negative for the new car option, unless you pay cash, and live in the right state.

It's always interesting to see what approaches the people on this board take to this issue. I used to enjoy doing my own work, and kept older cars because of it. Then I got involved in my career and went through a phase where I wanted to buy new, and keep them 10 years. Unfortunately, I found that I started wanting some of the new gadgets/safety features that were coming out at about the 5 year point. Now I do the 3-4 year old car approach, with the idea of selling in about 5 years. Seems to work for me. (cash, no financing.)

I'm pretty picky about what car I buy (condition, maintenance, etc.) I then go through it thoroughty on a major maintenance, and overkill things like hoses, belts, thermostats, tires, etc, so it is in close to new condition.

Maybe someday money really won't matter, and I'll do 2 year leases on new cars. (yeah right.)

[BadQ45t]

The thing I'm enjoying the most about my 97' right now is it cost so little to keep on the road. I dropped $800 into her for the 60k service in January and after that it has just been oil changes (only put 9k on it in that time). I just dropped 2k into my old Maxima which I drove 15k in the same time period, so I figure it is worth keeping the old Max pasted together since in the long run it is so much cheaper to keep on the road....good to have an alternative so the Q doesn't take all the miles (of course Sundays are for my 84' 300ZX which I think costs me $400 bucks this year).

[greg_atlanta]

I took a quick test drive in a new Maxima SE yesterday and was fairly impressed. Didn't have quite the presence of the Q but was perky and had lots of room inside. Transmission seems OK too.

I can't fit in a lot of cars with a sunroof (G35 sedan & coupe, I30/35, etc.) but you can get Maxima SE without sunroof (or it's not an option on GXE). Plenty of headroom without.

Stereo is a letdown, but I guess $1000 for an amp and some speaker would fix that.

Nice to know there's something out there if I had to get a new car.... hopefully they'll be marked down big time before 2004 model arrives (which looks like it'll still be V-6 & FWD).

But not giving up on The Mothership just yet! :cuddle