Battery Light On ... with the key out.. new engine

[CanuckQx4]

Hey guys, I just finished up my engine swap in my 2001.5 Qx4. Everything worked out great, literally started first crank and ran smooth, idles a little low but I figure I just have to do some relearn procedures. No check engine lights.

I noticed that when I turned the engine off, and turned the key backwards, the battery light popped on, turn the key to where the fuel pump primes, and it goes off and stays off even with the engine running. But if your turn the key back, or even pull it out of the ignition, the battery light remains lit.

I checked battery voltage and it is slightly low, but resting @ 12.1 volts, with the car running its 14.2, so the alternator is working....

Has anyone ever heard of this before? Or does it point to anything? As far as I can tell everything is connected good and tight and in the correct spot, the ONLY thing I had to change wiring wise during this engine swap was I had to solder on a new alternator plug because I destroyed mine removing it. I simply went to the junkyard and cut the plug and pigtail off an older pathfinder with 3.3 (my cars a 3.5L), cut my plug off at the end, and solderred the 3 wires together. The wire colors were the same, and the physical plug was the same and clicked right into my alternator, and my solderring is perfect. Thats the only thing I can think of that would somehow cause this, at the light was not on before the swap, maybe the wires go to different pins on the alternator on the 3.3L? I shouldve confirmed that

Any suggestions where to start?

[Leo1998]

Here's mine 3.3L http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/QX4/2001.5_QX4/sc.pdf

Here's yours 3.5L http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/QX4/2001.5_QX4/sc.pdf

[Leo1998]

I just replace the alternator last week and my clip only has 2 wires and the one for the post. Not sure what 3 you soldered together, are you sure it was off a 3.3L Pathfinder?

I read that if the Diode pack is bad it can cause your problem.
You can check yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgikeXt91vM

[CanuckQx4]

My girlfriend is saying that I didnt get it out of a pathfinder but instead it was some other Nissan, it was 2-3 weeks ago when I pulled the engine that I did the fix right away.

I really dont understand what that video even tested, didnt understand what was good or bad and what was even tested really lol

[Chuck Tribolet]

Leo: you posted the same URL twice. 2001.5 FSM covers two flavors of the 3.5, and no 3.3s.

Canuck: Try unplugging the alternator. If the light goes out, you know your bug is probably alternator-related.
And keep the battery charged up. Getting run dead flat is death to a typical lead-acid starting battery.

Chuck

[CanuckQx4]

Im about to start pulling wires. I checked resting voltage last night at it was 12.24 @ 9pm, today (14 hours later) its 11.63.

Luckily its an optima AGM battery

EDIT: alternator electrical plug disconnected, light still on

[Leo1998]

Hahaha Thanks Chuck I was watching t.v. and searching the same time.

So we know the plug isn't bad?

What happens if the diode pack is bad it will continue to let electrical current through and when you shut the ignition off the current is still running and will drain the battery. The test shows that he's getting low numbers both direction on the bad alternator. If Diode pack is good then you get a nice high number in one direction and zero numbers the other direction.
Another possibility could be the ignition switch?

[CanuckQx4]

SO I disconnected the battery, disconnected the alternator plastic plug aswell as the power wire coming off of the alternator output post (secured it away from grounding) and then reconnected the battery, and the battery light is still on in the dash.

The only thing left connected to the alternator is the ground cable held by the small 6mm screw.

Should I pull the alt off the car?

[Leo1998]

When you disconnected the battery did you notice any spark when removing the cable? If so, then there is still a load on it somewhere that is draining it and making the battery light stay on, is my guess. How many miles you got on that Alternator, mine failed at 115k but was being leaked on from a bad valve cover gasket for...i don't know how long. Maybe take off the ground and clean under it?

[CanuckQx4]

Didnt notice any spark but wasnt paying much attention. The alternator was bought used last year, it worked flawless no issues until I pulled the engine to put this new one in, I did give it a wash with some power steering fluid on it when I disconnected the hardlines doing the swap though... I got a rag on it as fast as I could.

The fact that the battery light is still on, with the alternator power wire and its electrical connector disconnected should mean the alternator couldnt be causing the light to illuminate though right? Since its not connected?

Im no electrician, by any means though. After staring at it for a while, the battery light on the dash is quite bright, full brightness I will say. But it also looks like the "brake" dash light could be lit aswell, very dimly, thought I should mention that.

[CanuckQx4]

I found that if I pull the ALT fuse underhood the light will go off

If I understood how to read a proper wiring diagram I would probably have a clue what that meant, edit: maybe I do, sc-19 of the FSM states

"With the ignition switch in the ON or START position, power is supplied
- through 10A fuse [No. 8, located in the fuse block (J/B)]
- to combination meter terminal 12 for the charge warning lamp.
Ground is supplied to terminal 43 of the combination meter through terminal L of the alternator. With power and ground supplied, the charge warning lamp will illuminate. When the alternator is providing sufficient voltage with the engine running, the ground is opened and the charge warning lamp will go off.
If the charge warning lamp illuminates with the engine running, a fault is indicated."

Does that mean my ignition switch is possibly shorting with the key out? As my light is on with no key eve in the ignition

[Towncivilian]

Can you try disconnecting the ignition switch to see what happens?

[CanuckQx4]

I certainly can, have to run to the store to grab dinner at the moment though before I attempt anything. Do you happen to know a way to disconnect it? I'll have to go inside after dinner and check the fsm it wont open on my smartphone

[Towncivilian]

IIRC from doing the fog light mod, there was a harness connector for the ignition switch.

[CanuckQx4]

I found one single line in the fsm that says "disconnect ignition switch harness" in the 640 pages of the EC section (613) but gives me no connector number or reference to further search. I searched every section for info on testing/removing the ignition switch, but can find nothing. What the heck am I doing wrong?

[Towncivilian]

Check out EL-449, connector E6

[CanuckQx4]

What is Nissan thinking with these pictures? Is that on the firewall? behind the center vent? Gauge cluster? Heck there is no reference at all. Im assuming its under the steering column, but that picture sure doesnt show that.

ive never messed with an ignition switch is why I ask what I am looking at. After searching here and googling for an hour, I dont see any pics of anyone changing there ignition switch either.

Why would an install/remove section not be in the fsm?

Its weird I have this problem after I do an engine swap though dont you think? To me it makes me think I have something connected somehow wrongly, instead of a faulty part. but you never know I guess right

[Towncivilian]

Sorry, I have no clue exactly where it is. It is white and has 6 pins if that helps any... looks like it's behind the instrument cluster. I'll keep looking for a more concrete diagram.

[CanuckQx4]

ya Im stumped on searching the manual, I found alot of people call them starter switches aswell but that didnt get any hits in the fsm. Just as I type this I thought maybe the manuals at autozone might have them, the one for my Acura was pretty "bluecollar english" I think it was a Helms publish or Haynes. I'll see if I cant find that online tonight or at the store tomorrow, that would be handy anyways for future

[Chuck Tribolet]

The magic key to "where the heck is that connector" is at the back of section EL in about 16 pages with
heading "Harness Layout". The sections just before and just after that are quite useful too.

And if it's the same as E6 on an '01 PF, it goes to the ignition switch.
Chuck

[CanuckQx4]

Heres something random, maybe Im just tired and this shouldnt make sence. Page EL-475 (in my 2001.5 manual) at the top of the page shows a diagram of body ground E101.

Would that happen to be the wire that grounds on the alternator case? I notice on that page it shows it is the ground for the alternator, and the power steering pressure switch. I noticed when I started the car my power steering was abnormally tough to turn the wheel, I thought it was because I havent had the car on the road since draining the system to remove the hardlines, I refilled it with new fluid though, but it is still tough.

But maybe that ground is affecting something?? Pinched or poor connection? Just thinking out loud, I thought the power steering toughness would go away after a few lock to lock turns and a fluid top up to get any air out, and it seems odd that that particular ground is for the alternator aswell, which happens to be the fuse I can pull from the fusebox and have the light go out...

Smoking gun?

[CanuckQx4]

I also found a good picture of connector E5 (El-598), which appears to be behind the upper steering column cover, and E6 (ignition switch harness connector) is shown in the crazy layout diagram as being right beside it, so I will dig in that area looking for the connector in the meantime

[CanuckQx4]

First time Ive had the steering column off before, could this be the harness connector we are talking about for the ignition switch? It is on the opposite end of the cylinder you insert the Key. Has 6 wires, white plug as you mentionned town. Is the ignition switch itself the female piece this connector plug into? It looked removable from the cylinder, right behind the black wires in the way of the pic I didnt move for some stupid reason....

Anywho, disconnecting this did nothing to turn the light off



I forgot to clarify my mistake in the first post that Leo was quick to point out, my alternator harness plug is indeed only a 2 wire, dont know why I thought it was 3

[Towncivilian]

Yes, that is the ignition switch harness connector.

Are you sure all ground screws are tight and connected? Try loosening and retightening these:

[CanuckQx4]

Your picture isnt showing, but Im assuming its the 2 grounds beside each other on top of the engine, I know that one is important, and it is definitely tight, I resanded that pair first.

The ground I pictured that is on the alternator case is connected aswell, it is in a horrible to access spot with everything in the way so I did not tighten or sand that one yet. Based on my little discovery with my power steering system and the alternator, maybe I should.

When I pulled the ignition switch harness and the light didnt go off, that means ignition switch is not the problem

[Towncivilian]

Yep, that is the one I'm referring to.

Can you try to test for continuity between terminal 43 of the instrument cluster harness and terminal L of the alternator? It sounds like a PITA, though...

[CanuckQx4]

Yup, might take me a bit to figure out what is what in the fsm and to take the cluster out, but I'll do that today for sure

I did disconnect the alternator case ground earlier aswell, but the light remained on.

[CanuckQx4]

So I did a little fsm investigating, found that the L terminal on the alternator is the yellow/black of the 2 wires, then I got the pinouts for the cluster harnesses (EL-101). I pulled my cluster out, but noticed there is no wire going to terminal #43, it is a blank area on the plug.

So i read the fsm a bit more in the area I was in, and on SC-20, the right side of the diagram shows the "L" wire going from the alt harness to terminal #68 on the cluster, so i looked on that plug on the cluster and it was a yellow/black aswell. And I do have continuity between L and #68 on the cluster harness.

I couldnt see where #43 came into play or why you asked me to check so maybe you can clarify that for me. I'll leave everything apart

[Towncivilian]

Your quoted portion of the FSM earlier says it: Ground is supplied to terminal 43 of the combination meter through terminal L of the alternator.
But I guess the FSM is wrong, and you've already proven continuity where required.

I don't know what else to check... there's no diode for the charge warning lamp to verify functionality of. Is the "ALT" fuse no. 8 on page 3 of foldout? No. 8 fuse controls meters + gauges & ACSD.

[CanuckQx4]

Ya I just read that to, Im sitting in the drivers seat right now and the bottom row second last pin is definitely empty.

And no the ALT fuse in my car is in the under hood box (fuse 52). Fuse 8 in the cabin is METER (and checks out fine). The ALT fuse underhood is the fuse I can pull and have the light go out though

If you remember, the fsm was also very incorrect on my hatch and tail light wiring, youd think it would be spot on.... they built the car right..