Battery Drain on 2003 G35

[Road Ruler]

If I let the car sit for more than 4 days the battery is too weak to start the car.

I replaced the battery with a known good battery with the same result.

I have a digital volt meter and prepared to check for drains.

Is there any vehicle component or circuit that is suspect?

Thnxs far any info or tips you can suggest.

[qship96]

Begin by inspecting alternator/charging system.....possible the battery is never getting a full charge to begin with, then the time to drain/no start condition happens quickly!

[Road Ruler]

Thnxs qship

Last week, the first time it failed to start I had CAA come over to get it going.

The rep spend quite a bit of time with an analyzer and reported that there was a slight drain. He also found the battery had a weak cell which I had Sears replace under warranty.

He didn't say anything about a charging issue but it is something I will check.

If it is charging OK any ideas about the suspected drain issue?

[qship96]

All modern cars have some drain to keep computers and memories powered- the key is to learn what the "normal" key off milliamp drain should be and compare to yours- if yours is higher, it could be one of the computer modules not entering "sleep mode" or other malfunction- probably best to let a pro figure it out as there are many modules and circuits to test and it could get complicated quickly. Have you ruled out any defective/misadjusted switches allowing trunk/glovebox/interior lights remaining on after shutdown? Car still under warranty?

[Road Ruler]

Those are good thoughts.

I can do a complete check re the idea a bulb is still on.

Car is out of warranty. :7(

[SteveTheTech]

I would bet you $5 that the radio is causing the parasitic draw.

The tests required for this are not easy and should not be first tried on your daily driver.

Get a new radio if your battery and charging system check out.

[Road Ruler]

Steve... I'm not sure if you are serious or not?!?!

If you are serious can't we just pull the radio fuse and test

[SteveTheTech]

I am sorry I cut that off at a rough draft stage, due to a need to cook dinner.

Yes pull the fuse.

Ok here is my logic for this.

As a Tech I have performed the test required for to make a final determination. For the DIYer this test is as good as a guess, and with much less potential risk v. reward. The fact of the matter is the radio in the car is most likely the cause.

Having a digital voltmeter isn't enough for this one, the test involves isolating a load in the milliamp range but if the test goes wrong a potential spike exceeding 10amps can not only fry your meter but, depending on the internal fuse (typically a much slower burn rate than those used in the car, of which I learned the hard way) you can short a bunch of things making isolation impossible. What you "theoretically" need to do is cut the batteries most prominent source of a draw...the radio. The key off supply line can be accessed by the small junction block under the battery cover and forward of the battery. There should be a mini fuse labeled as radio. That is what you want to pull if you are going to leave the car and do not want to replace the battery all the time.

If you had anything <perfect for a battery the combination of the extreme geography in which you live coupled with an increased current demand from somewhere (radio) will kill any battery quickly.

[Q451990]

This is apparently a common issue on the earlier G35. The manager of my local car stereo shop has mentioned that he has a place that he sends these to be rebuilt. The localer dealership actually sends thier customers to him when they cringe at the cost of a factory replacement. Shot in the dark, but you might give him a call and see if he can get you in touch with them. His name is Larry Norton at Norton Stereo. (803) 731-9653

Tell him Heath Roberts told you to call.

Good Luck!

Heath

[Road Ruler]

I am sorry I cut that off at a rough draft stage, due to a need to cook dinner.

Yes pull the fuse.

LOL, thats OK Steve and I really appreciate the good info and direction you provided.

With the absence of a MA tester I think I can still use the volt meter. What I can do is test the battery voltage at its standing state, probably being about 12.65V's and then do it again 24 hours later without touching the car. The following day I should see a voltage drop on the battery. Now I have a baseline.

Then if I pull the radio fuse as you suggest I could do the same test. If the radio is the bug then the voltage drop after 24 hours of sitting should be less when compared to the baseline test.

Heath. Also great info. If the radio is at fault will have to look at this outlet as a fix possibility.

[Q45tech]

Amplified dc amp probe and osilloscope is ideal for this test.http://www.picoauto.com/automo....html

You can purchase a 60, 600, or 2000 ampere DC version.

[Road Ruler]

Deleted for now

[Road Ruler]

I would bet you $5 that the radio is causing the parasitic draw.

The tests required for this are not easy and should not be first tried on your daily driver.

Get a new radio if your battery and charging system check out.

Ok Steve it looks like your were right on the money with this one. I got an AMP meter. I disconnected the - battery cable and connected the meter in between post and cable.I saw the car go to sleep and the reading was stable at .55I then pulled the radio fuse and the reading fell to .05 Wel-ah!

Looks like the radio with ignition off is pulling way to much as you expected.

I also noticed the heater/air controls are on the same fuse

I wonder if there is a service outlet here in Canada that could fix. I could check with the local Infiniti dealer but every time I ask them about a problem they claim it is the first time they have heard of it?????

Wondering if I could simply wire in a switch that could be activated by 12v sense?? Without seeing 12V (when the car is turned off) the switch would disconnect the radio thus getting around the problem. Is there such a switch??

Thnxs for your input on this. I would gladly send you the 5 bucks...lol

Wayne

[SteveTheTech]

That's semi great news. Great because you now know where your problem is. However there are several things you can do.

If it were me I cannot say that I would not install a switch at the fuse (simplest install and lowest impact) and call it a day until I found a suitable long term solution. However by that logic you could pull the fuse out, yeah it will require opening the hood frequently but its free and requires no work. Maybe your dealer can put you in touch with a small circuit repair guy, I know here we use a guy who charges ~as much as a reman unit costs so there is that route. Other options include getting a new faceplate with accommodations for an aftermarket unit, this works for some people and overall cost would be less than a replacement (depending on what head unit you go with).

What I would try to talk you out of is cutting into the main harness and splicing a contract switch on it's 12v constant signal.

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i....=boseEbays got some good deals

Good Luck,

[Road Ruler]

Thnxs for the good ideas Steve.

It gives me a few avenues to consider.

Is it the face plate assembly that the bug resides?

I will be meeting with a friend, an electronics fixer guru in the AM. I will pick his brain as well. If I can find out what the specific electronic fault is he may be able to repair.

[Q451990]

I believe the climate controls are part of the same unit as the radio.

Going with an aftermarket unit breaks these controls out so that you can use a different radio. The only downside is if you have dual climate control (different passenger and driver temps) - since it's not supported in the aftermarket.

Heath

[Road Ruler]

Thnxs Heath. We have the dual controls and use it so that is good to know.

I found some more info here. http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f161aa6/20

Many unhappy G35 owners because of this issue and the lack of support from Infiniti. Mostly getting the run a round or huge estimates to fix..

What I would really like to find out is what the specific issue is on the board. There are electronic service centers that are repairing the fault in many States. Myself and my pals (retired) worked for the major computer company as techs and we have the skills to repair but need to know where to look.

Any ideas on the specific bug???? Anybody?

If we can proceed and come up with a fix the info will be passed along.

Need to have happy Infiniti owners and stop owner discontent and Infiniti bashing over this electronic issue.

[SteveTheTech]

I really do not know where the bulk of the problem resides. What I can tell you is what I have seen over the last several years.

Replacing both or repairing ___ (idk what exactly), the car audio guy I know bough a boat from this type of repair and will not come off it easily.

[Road Ruler]

I hear ya Steve and I have only respect and praise for you and the others who helped me out here.

But it seems the high paid help in the Infinity/Nissan corporate tower need to get their act together.

Someone needs to educate them on a basic fundamental of running a successful business, and that is.....

"It takes ten times as much effort to get a new customer than it does to keep the ones they have"!

For many years now I have been watching this organization shoot themselves in the foot. I want to support them, but only if they support me. That's da way it works!

[Q451990]

I spent literally years off and on figuring out the problem with the early Q45 climate controller display issue. I decided to publish the fix on NICO because the car is a dying breed and my desire to keep them on the road, and eliminate one possible cause of someone deciding to scrap another one, outweighs my desire to make money off of repairing them. That and there aren't many 90-93 Q owners that are willing to spend $$$ for much other than gas!

My only thought would be for someone to pull the offending board, mark each and every component on the board with some sort of ink or paint that's invisible to the naked eye but shows up under a UV lamp or something, and then hope they're not keeping your board as a core and sending you a repaired one!

Good luck!

Heath

[Road Ruler]

Some interesting thoughts Heath, thnxs

My electronics guru wants to get his hands on the suspect bd for analysis..... or if I send it to Florida to be repaired..... can I still operate the car with the radio/control panel removed?

[Road Ruler]

One more thought...

Until I get this resolved I an going to connect a trickle charger when not using the vehicle. This will keep the battery from draining and with a cable connection to the outside of the car somewhere plugging it in will be easier than popping hood and pulling fuse (which dumps radio memory every time).

Is there any concerns with this idea?

thnxs again for staying with me on this prob.

[SteveTheTech]

I didn't read the Edmunds link but one thing that people so often forget. Infiniti really only makes money off the first and CPO owners of their cars. How many of those people are actually complaining about these issues.

Working at the dealer since these cars were you I have seen and heard allot about these radios. They suck but they are not Infiniti product and are supplied and serviced by Clarion. However if the car is out of warranty the company is not obligated to offer any sort of goodwill. To the people who bought their car second hand or even multiple Nissan products...all bought second hand they still don't have to do anything. Most manufacturers have no goodwill consideration and much less comprehensive warranties. companies that Land Rover who might I say builds an awful vehicle has nothing at all even for people who are a week past their in service date.

This is why an extended warranty from the manufacturer is essential when buying a car that started its life costing 2x what the average of the majority of cars on the market. Cars are too expensive now not to be covered.

Heath, Your story about the HAC control unit reminds me of the almost now gone art of soldering it yourself. As more and more Radio Shacks close so goes the simple integrated circuits used in our old school formats. This is a thing some very geeky individuals like you and I do for fun.

[Road Ruler]

There is some truth to what you say Steve but there is a bigger picture.

Infiniti chose the radio that we are suffering with now. This car was $42,000.00 plus 15% taxes and dealer fees. It was made in Japan like the last high quality, reliable vehicles I have owned. For the big bucks we spend and the high profit Infiniti makes we have expectations.

They may make profit on sales to the 1st owner but they also have the potential to make more profit, or 1st time buyers/ as in repeat business.

Our last 3 vehicles have been Nissan/Infiniti's. With the number of faults, disappointing Infiniti service (dealer) it is doubtful they will make anymore profit from me.

[SteveTheTech]

I have heard allot of mixed things about Infiniti in Canada, and that is what it is.

To play Devils Advocate for arguments sake all in good fun,

You bought the first year of a brand new model and kept it beyond the warranty period. The first model of almost all cars have more issues than following years, it is just a nature of the industry type thing. At this point the car is 7 years old and they do not fair well in extreme climates.

However they will cover everything for a certain period of time as the life span of the part in question would warrant. I have worked for a few other dealers over the years and Infiniti is more than willing to pay for some pretty expensive parts for some people. However all claims are reviewed individually when it comes down to any good will consideration. Times are tight and Nissan has done an exceptional job (imo) doing the right thing in many cases when safety concerns are at hand, although they will never make everyone happy they seem to do an above average job.

[Q451990]

I have fouind Infiniti to at least honor their warranty obligations... In a couple of cases they took care of some things that were marginal as "good will" and that's one of the reasons we bought the G when it came time to get a new car for the wife. So in my case 4 used Nissans and Infiniti got them a new car sale. Interestingly enough, I was once told by a regional service guy that they make very little money selling a new car. The profit center is parts and service... Kind of like a cheap printer with $100 ink cartridges I guess.

All of this is a welcomed change vs. my experience with Ford - where leaking gaskets were called "seepage" and everything else was "normal" - just a horrible company that will never see a dime of my $$$ again.

Heath

[Road Ruler]

I have fouind Infiniti to at least honor their warranty obligations.Heath

For sure. Our G has been back multiple times for warranty issues. Sometimes with great success while other times poor results.

Lets be clear. I want to support and and appreciate Nissan/Infiniti but they make it difficult sometimes.

One example..... Car under warranty. The remote suddenly stopped unlatching the trunk. Took it in to Qakv***** Infiniti. They said no problem, we will order a new cable assembly and install it when you return in a few days.

Went back and they had the car in the shop for an hour.

48 hours later the same problem. I had a quick look at the trunk hinge where the cable hinges and sure enough "NO NEW CABLE" and " the 5 minute, quick fix soldering job they did had failed.

I took the car back and they repaired again and sent me on my way.

Six months later same problem. I checked the hinge again. Same fault. The quick fix solder joint failed again.

So I get some quality wire, my trusty soldering gun and installed a new wire. By placing the wire at the hinge with the fresh soldered joints relocated away from the hinge.

It took me 15 minutes to do this fix in my driveway and has lasted for years.

Why whould I be disappointed with Infiniti service?!?!Why do I go to the trouble of trying to solve and fix this car myself??With good reasons!

[SteveTheTech]

Not everyone is a soldering master. Most things require simple fixes especially at pinch points or flex points like this are not very easy to some.

There is no excuse for poor service, ever.

[Road Ruler]

Ok back on track...

I found this post on another forum that seemed interesting......

"I've just solved my 2003 G35 Bose Radio/battery drain problems. Replaced the radio with a Pioneer FH-P4200MP radio. Used a Metra Dash kit, Metra antenna adapter, and a Metra Amplifier wiring harness. The steering wheel controls were adapted with a PAC SWIX interface unit.Took the installer about 3 hours to do the replacement and the sound system for the first time actually sounds like something one would expect from Bose. The Bose speakers with this set up are phenomenal.

The Bose Amp was left in circuit.

Here is what is happening. There is a signal from the factory radio that goes to the Bose amp that tells the amp to turn on, or turn off. This signal mechanism gets stuck in the On position. So your amp is constantly on , even if the radio is off!

If your Bose radio is still in the car, disconnecting the amp in your trunk will stop the battery drain, and keep the HVAC controls intact. The radio will still turn on, but no sound will be heard. All you have to do is locate the amp and remove the wiring plug.Battery Problems:The constant drain on the battery causes damage , and after a period of time, even if the amp is disconnected, the battery will not hold a charge. Battery replacement is the only solution.

Things got so bad for me that the low battery voltage caused my main computer to need reprogramming - at a cost of 180 dollars.

The radio, the install kit and the installation cost me about 700 dollars.Toss in the 180 dollars for the reprogramming and the cost of a couple of batteries and this whole mess cost me 1000 dollars.

BTW...the Bose radio in 2003 G35's comes from Clarion. " So I went out and disconnected the amp in the trunk and did the amp drain test again. No luck, the draw problem was still occurring so in my case I assume the amp staying on is not the problem. Back to the circuit bd I guess. :7(

The plan is to pull the bd in the very near future and get it over to my pal who will run some diagnostics on it to see if we can pin point the issue. Stay tuned.

[Q451990]

Just keep in mind that you'd loose the dual climate control option if you delete the factory radio.

If the problem was indeed the radio not telling the amplifier to turn off, it looks like putting a relay between the two that's fed by a switched circut would be a cheap fix...

Here's hoping your friend can figure this out!

Heath