Battery dead - could the alarm drain it?

[she11ey]

Hi, guys --

I bought this old Q45 in April. The dealer said the previous owner (whom I have not been able to locate) mentioned an intermittent problem with the alarm. After driving it for about a month, I guessed that the owner meant that the alarm would go off for no apparent reason occasionally, which not only made a racket but killed the ignition.

It seems like the intermittency of the problem has gradually become more frequent!

Wait, it gets worse...

Almost four weeks ago I couldn't start the car, and I assumed it was the alarm killing the ignition switch again. But the battery was dead. I jump started it, took it to Sears, and they said I didn't need a new battery, I just needed this one recharged. They also said if the battery drained itself again, I probably need a new alternator.

Lately the alarm has been setting itself off at least 4-5 times a day (and at night, so my neighbors aren't pleased). Today the car is dead again.

Before I get this to a mechanic, tell me (a NON mechanic) what you think, please! Could a bad alternator be causing the alarm problems AND the drained battery? Or could a bad alarm be the source of the trouble?

I just want to have some insight from ya'll before I take the next step. Thanks a million!

[Jesda]

I started a previous thread on this same issue. It seemed to happen on windy days. Earlier this year Greg mentioned that that my poorly lubricated hood joints (is that what you call them? the ones that sort of knuckle together as you open and close the hood?) were causing my hood to actually bend. When the hood is bent upward, the plunger that the hood normally pushes down on when shut isnt being pushed down all the way.

I lubricated the "hood joints" that were back behind the hydraulic struts, right below the windshield, with WD40. And by hand sort of bent the hood into place. Problem solved!

There are other theories on what may cause this... may want to do a search for "alarm"

-Jesda

[Jesda]

And it sounds like time for a new alternator anyway. And perhaps new battery cables and terminals.

-Jesda

[she11ey]

Could door hinges could create a similar problem? Come to think of it, when I'm driving on the freeway (windy) or on a bumpy road (anywhere in downtown Houston), my interior lights flicker and the dashboard warning panel shows DOOR OPEN, but for such a brief instance that it's hard to catch. I've even pulled over, then opened and closed all the doors and trunk. No change.

The driver's door key gets jammed all the time, too. Maybe there's something going on with that door that keeps tripping the alarm, even when the car is parked and off... ???

Aaaanyway, Jesda, thanks for the insight.

Hmmm, should I get the alarm disconnected?

[qship96]

check for defective door switch that controls both the illumination and alarm function,you are on the right track!

[she11ey]

Jesda, I just finished searching some threads for the keyword "alarm." Saw your old posts regarding your car's alarm AND key problems, thanks. I'm surprised no one mentioned voodoo as a possible solution! ;]

Qship96, I noticed that one of the old threads mentioned this:"If it's the security system, check all the little rubber "boots" which cover the actual switches for the doors...The ones on my "new" old Q had become torn, and anytime the car moved, it could set off the alarm."

I looked, and the rubber covering for the driver's side door switch is torn off. That looks like something even *I* could replace. Now, to find the place to ORDER one...

[maxnix]

http://www.everythinginfiniti.com

And please do a search on Timing Chain Guides ASAP! A good place to stater is to read about the topic in Infiniti Articles.

[Highway Q45]

I'm not sure if the Q's alarm works the same way but when my battery would get low on my Miata the alarm would activate at a certain voltage threshold level. Even the remote couldn't deactivate it, I had to pull a battery cable. This could happen If your alternator isn't charging up to snuff or your bat. terminals are dirty. Have you had a mechanic trace any excess "dark current" when the car is turned off to determine if it's a short somewhere? It shouldn't really be any more than about 25 to 40 mA unless you've added aftermarket audio equipment.

[she11ey]

Thanks, Brian! I did read all about the timing chain guides here when I first acquired the car. Sounded like scary repair stuff!

I was able to get the dealer to pull the maintenance/service records (nine pages) for this car right after I bought it, and it looks like the timing chain guides were replaced in 1995. Don't quote me, though... I'd have to dig up the faxed document and reread it to be sure.

They only need to be replaced ONCE, right?

[Jesda]

Once is it. There's slack and tension side guides (guys correct me if I'm wrong), so make sure they were both done. Most say the chain itself is good for 250k.

-Jesda

[elwesso]

THe chain should last the life of the car.....

And yes, the hood hinges are a common problem... I konw of another Q owner (cant remember who he is on NICO... EDIT: JoshIsSciFi), but they actually BROKE the hood hinges bceause they werent lubed right...

A good indicator that they are not lubed right is when the hood doesnt pop up by itself when you pull the hood release in the car.. Mine were that way and I thought something was sticky... But I went through and oiled very liberally the hinges taht jesda mentioned, and also the latch...

When the car is off and the key is out of the ignition, does the SECURITY light blink? If so, the hood switch could be a problem, but it could also be the door switch... the rubber boots on mine are hanigng on for dear life, and depending on how hard it is to replace those, I might look into just putting some electrical tape around it or something to make it work.....

I personally HATE the Q45 alarm system... It always works when you dont want it to!!!

[she11ey]

Wes, I wasn't going to ADMIT to trying duct tape, but that IS going to be my next move after I:

• Get it jumpstarted• Drive to Autozone• Have the alternator tested• Pray for a miracle

I went to everythinginfiniti.com, as Brian suggested, and was able to find a "door jamb switch" part for the driver's door, but it wasn't clear whether the rubber boot came with that. They responsed to my inquiry quickly, though, and each replacement boot is $4.35. I will probably order four of them if the duct tape keeps the alarm quiet for at least a day or two.

I'll have to check the security light AFTER the battery is recharged. Right now all of the car's vital signs are flatter than an old pancake.

[elwesso]

Fortunlately I havent resorted to duct tape anywhere on my Q... Electrical tape on some elctrical stuff, but those are definitely things you keep to yourself

I just checked the parts book and the rubber boot does come with it... There is a cover that goes over the actual switch, and the boot is integral with the cover thingy.....

The part numbers you want are

25360-41L01- SWITCH ASSY-DOOR25368-6P000- COVER-DOOR SWITCH

I also echo what highway Q45 said... Have them check the excess current if any...

Also, a bad battery will cause strain on the alternator, causing the alternator to go bad... So if the alternator turns out to bad, I highly suggest you get your factory rebuilt one as well as a new fresh battery (be sure to get one big enough for the Q)

[maxnix]

Yeah, and heavy AC use in Houston's summers will kill your battery in two years (and strain your alternator). Try to find a battery dealer better than Sears or Autozone and get the best one that will fit properly. There are some threads on this. A lot of people like the Red Top Optima, which are available at Costco.

Nice to have a lady on board.

[elwesso]

At autozone, I got a duralast battery and it has a 3 year replacement warrnat,y and an additional 2 year prorated plan where they help you buy a new one...

For the money I paid (like $70 I think), I think thats a stellar deal.....

[she11ey]

Brian and Wes, the guys at Autozone said they'd recharge my Duralast for free, which fits my budget nicely. ;]

I saw some of the conversation threads about the Optima battery, which will be my next one after I've squeezed the life out of what I've already got!

Brian, I was actually supposed to be driving to AUSTIN yesterday when all of this happened. After adding freon for my AC, that is... yet another recent problem with this vehicle. I can only afford *one* problem a month, so I hope the Guardian Angels of St. Alternator are smiling under the hood.

[Jesda]

Whats the mileage again?

The nice thing is knowing that every repair breathes new life into the car. And every fix is one less thing to worry about.

-Jesda

[she11ey]

Jesda, did you forget to floss?

Mileage is now almost 141k.

Whatever happened to your PayPal chain guard charity? Did your efforts succeed?

[she11ey]

Gentlemen, I just got back from my friendly local Autozone. After my ex-husband jumpstarted my car this morning, I drove it up there to get the battery checked. The service rep attached his testing-device-on-wheels to my battery while the car was running, and he said it appeared that the alternator was having no trouble recharging the battery. Hooray! Then... he pushed some buttons... and the testing gizmo said "DIODE PATTERN BAD."

Huh?

He said I should probably get the alternator replaced "soon." Sound logical to you?

I did do a forum search on DIODE and saw Autotech43's post from last year saying, "Infiniti alternators can charge fine and still have a diode problem."

Incidentally, I'm still holding my breath, but I think my temporary duct-tape solution is working on the door switch. The "door open" warning light has stopped making brief appearances while I drive. The alarm hasn't peeped yet, either.

[maxnix]

Shelley, might get a quaote form Joe on the alternator. Texasoil posted about for someone in Houston for transmission work, don't know about alternator replacement there. Most learn to speak in tongues before the job is complete. Get someone good and conscientious.

"Squeezing the the battery" is a sure prelude to alternator failure since it stresses it, see Houston summer, AC, etc.

Unfortunately, adding freon is treating the symptom, not the cause. Time to lay out the triage budget.

[she11ey]

Brian, exactly three months ago on this forum, Jesda advised me, "If you are truly strapped for cash and this is your only vehicle, you may be better off selling it and buying a Maxima or Altima instead."

Today you tell me to "lay out the triage budget."

I don't know WHAT to do. It sure seems like it will be hard to sell the Q in its current condition. And I don't relish the process of looking for another cheap vehicle.

¤-¤ h e a v y s i g h ¤-¤

Okay, drama's over! Thanks for all the help.

[Jesda]

Indeed, if this is your daily driver and its pinching your budget, I'd recommend spending the money on a used or remanufactured alternator, charging up the battery, selling it in operating condition, and getting into something easier and more affordable to maintain... like an Altima, Accord, or Maxima (maybe even a Protege or 626).

You'll find yourself spending $300 a month or more for a while until the nagging things that fall apart after 13 years finally get taken care of. After that, and chain guides, its pretty much smooth sailing.

You have to really want the luxury, performance, and style to commit to such an expensive to own, complex, and aged vehicle -- yet I've never had any inanimate object make me so intensely happy for the money spent.

Despite the expense, I still consider it a bargain.

-Jesda

[msscomm]

[quote=" she11ey Incidentally, I'm still holding my breath, but I think my temporary duct-tape solution is working on the door switch. The "door open" warning light has stopped making brief appearances while I drive. The alarm hasn't peeped yet, either. [/quote]

Had the same issue when I got the Q 2 years ago - the door open light was intermittent - but would go out when pressed in by hand - I taped a nut on the outside of the rubber boot to verify that the extra depth of the plunger on the switch was all that was needed - and then popped the nut onto the inside of the rubber boot - No further problems - Perfect electrical performance since !

If your boot is frazzeled - get a $5 replacement from Joe or a wreck, or if the “newly extended” plunger fixes your problem - you could consider a heavy duty ballon/silicon sealer as a temp fix - knowing a real rubber boot is the only fix to hold up long term w/all the flexing it will undergo.

Dropped 4K into a newer Q on all the classic wear items, but now have a dynamite GT, and my maintenance costs are truly nominal - the expected couple of grand/year is just going into the bank. These puppies are solid if they are refurbed ! Bottom line is you have to end up with all the deferred maintainance over 10+ years fixed, Do it up front or don't kid youeself as you will end up only running from one problem to the next -

[she11ey]

Thank you, msscomm, for the "nutty" idea...

The temporary duct tape solved the problem until the 100-degree summer heat melted the adhesive while the car was parked in the sun this afternoon. Then the alarm went off. Guess that confirms the suspicion of the gang here about the source of THAT problem. (Still not sure if that's what drained the battery, though.)

[JT_MONEY_2004]

Here's my almost exact experience...and solution. My '90 q45 was dying the same way yours was, the only difference was that my headlights/taillights would flash but I didn't hear the horn. I then hypothesized maybe the horn had been disconnected from alarm system for whatever reason. I had my battery tested, they said it was low and simply needed charging (20min drive would cure). Starter and alternator showed charging well also according to the handheld computer. The guy that was testing it noticed my security light was flashing even after all doors, hood and trunk were locked (with and w/out key), something he saw before in a Cadillac STS. When i leaned on driver's door from the outside the light would stop flashing and stay on. Solution: I found a small piece of rubber and epoxied(sp?) it to the door itself where it would push on on sensor. If you use a piece of rubber that's made to proctect hard wood floors, you know the kind of stuff you'd stick to the bottom of chair or table legs it'll look normal, not like some patch work.

from all the low battery power, i did have to replace the alternator, even though the handheld computer said was fine a week and a half before. Ebay is your friend! However, i ended up getting one from advance autoparts for just over $100, wasn't the "Best"one but to date seems fine. Battery re-charged itself from just running the car and is still fine. You may or may not have to replace it. Labor to replace the alternator and alternator belt cost me $150 at a local shop. Check all openings. Have battery tested again in a few days.

I'm finicky when buying certain things used, alternators are one, mine was fine until it stopped charging, who knows about the one you'll get. Re-manufactured is probably what you'll get from parts store anyway. Good luck, keep posting.

[she11ey]

Thanks, JT! I like your idea of attaching the floor protector to the door. It will look a heck of a lot better than a stack of duct tape or a wad of chewing gum, won't it? The trick will be getting ANYTHING to stay there when the sun is beating on the car (no covered parking here).

I think I'll come back here and report on results in a week or so. That might be useful to forum members in the future...

[she11ey]

Wes, are you out there?

Sorry if I'm being a pest, but...

On Monday you wrote, "When the car is off and the key is out of the ignition, does the SECURITY light blink? If so, the hood switch could be a problem, but it could also be the door switch..."

After I use the remote to lock the car, the security light blinks in rapid 3x pulses for 30 seconds (you know -- flash-flash-flash, flash-flash-flash, flash-flash-flash). Then it just flashes continuously about 1x per second.

My search on this forum turned up different answers regarding the behavior of the security light, and I'm coNfUSed. What's right or wrong?

If I decide to keep this car, I guess I'd better find a manual better than the one that sits in the glove compartment!

[JT_MONEY_2004]

That's part of what i was saying or intended to say, the door could definately be the problem, it was mine. When you close all openings(not including windows) your security light should not flash, it will stay "on" then go out after a few seconds (not exactly sure how much). Here's what you do, remove the duct tape you have now.close doors, leave driver's window down so you can see in clearlyif security light flashes after you LOCK IT W/ KEY. If it's flashing lean on it and see if the light stays "ON". If it does, there's your problem. (if it continues to flash, another opening has the problem)Now you can either order new rubber covers from nissan to replace the busted ones, or try my trick. You'll need to use epoxy, it'll stand up to very high temps, hotter than the climate will ever get. **BUT** before you apply epoxy use some tape to temporarily place it, make sure what you're gonna use will work (i.e not too big or something and that door closes flush)***Make sure to take your time placing it one you put epoxy on it , make sure it'll make good contact w/ the door sensor. Let it set for a 10mins, close door and keep it closed for a few hrs.Jump car, let it run or take for a 20min drive, your battery should be charged by then, if you still have dead battery issues, alternator and/or battery will need replacement.

Dont forget to check battery terminals are clean and have a good connection.

[she11ey]

JT, you're too good to me! I like your procedure, but...

My key is too worn down or something, because it hardly ever works in the door. Or maybe there's a problem with the lock mechanism, but I think it's the key, because it doesn't budge on either side of the car. (It WILL turn the ignition, however.) Picture me standing in 102-degree Houston heat, re-inserting the key in the door 87 times, swearing in a most unladylike manner, hoping that it eventually works before I melt my mascara.

So... that means when the alarm DOES trip, not only am I unable to turn the noise off right away, I can't start the car if the anti-theft feature cycles far enough to kill the ignition.

I wonder if I can just get the whole security apparatus disabled at a car alarm shop? But then, would my remote entry work?

Damn, this is getting complicated. Especially for just one thread! ;]

- Shelley

[elwesso]

Just be glad you dont have mechanical things that are going wrong... THings that leave the car inoperative = bad.....

I will read up on my factory service manual and I'll come up with a few diagnostic procedures for you.....