Basic KA-T Setup Questions... and another stupid list.

[Veriest1]

Please critique my plans as this is my first time doing a DIY FI setup. So yeah, bear with me here. I’ve pretty much decided to turbo my ’93 coupe with its 147k mile KADE despite it’s rather low but even compression (it came out to 130 give or take a psi or so in each cylinder) since I have no firsthand experience tuning or using piggybacks (the Bimmer has always used ROM tunes and I’m tired of paying for those things). And if I mess up… well it probably needed a rebuild anyway. This is a learning experience at the moment.

I’ll be aiming for about 220-240 horsepower which should be a little below the stock MAF’s abilities IIRC.

I have a Koyo aluminum radiator installed and Altima fans on the way which I intend to wire to the ignition. Should I install an aftermarket thermostat?

What I already have from when I was going to turbo my last 240 and some BMW FI stuff I have laying around:- Garret T3/T04E (A/R .63 exhaust, A/R .50 compressor, and 360 degree thrust bearing)- Deltagate II waste gate (at 6.5 psi but I’ll double check the spring before I do anything as I intend to run it off the wastegate at first)- PWR FMIC- Split Second wideband- Walbro 255lph fuel pump- Misc piping (but not enough to do the entire job)- VDO boost gauge

What I plan to use to finish it off on a bit of budget:- S-AFC (Go E-bay Go! A used one isn’t much more than a RRFPR.)- SR20DET injectors- Recirculated Bosch bypass valve (These are cheap and have served me faithfully on my Bimmer. I see no reason to use anything else for this setup.)- Stock MAF in a draw through configuration- Ebay top mount manifold- Oil lines from JGS or mcmastercar.- Ebay intercooler piping kit (I’ll be beading it myself if it isn’t already)- Home Depot special BMC heat shield.- 300zx fuel filter

The big question is at what psi this turbo will hit my power goals (barring the engines condition). Obviously it should be pretty low and it may be a bit laggy for this setup but the old Porsche race cars always seemed to perform better with big single turbos than twins because of less heat buildup. *shrugs*

Also it is my understanding that this turbo won’t be in its efficiency range at this PSI since it is obviously oversized for the application. How will this impact the engine? I understand it would produce excess heat if I was running it over its efficiency but I’m not sure what the side effects are for running it under its efficiency. My guess is less power at the same PSI than a turbo that is properly sized for the application.

If I can I’d like to run it off my waste gate spring (6.5psi IIRC) at first and eventually put no more than 8 psi through this engine depending on how well it handles the boost.

Last question, can the SAFC control any MAF I can splice up to the ECU? If I can use it I have a nearly brand new e36 M3 MAF just sitting here since I have to run a Porsche MAF on the M3 now. The e36 MAF was good to about 350-370hp on the M3. Or maybe I just don’t understand how the piggyback stuff works yet. Enlighten me.

[WDRacing]

Lose the SAFC and get an Emance Rom tune. They are cheap and work awsome. Plus they retard timing...which the SAFC does not. The turbo you chose is perfect since it will has room for growth and it's not laggy by my terms. I also have that turbo BTW...

The rest of your setup looks/sounds good. Cept maybe that top mount mani...I'm not a big fan of that one. The wastegate port is awful and it places the turbo on top of the MBC...

WD

[Veriest1]

I've been reading about the emance tune. My problem is the reviews and speculations people post are hard to interpret. I'm having a hard time forming an opinion one way or the other about them. Your endorsement is about the best I've seen. Of course, from previous FI experiences, the tune is rarely the problem. Normally some small oversight tends to be causing all the issues so I'll probably follow your advice.

Part of the allure of the SAFC is simply the DIY nature of it. Of course the not have to worry about it nature of a ROM tune is nice too. I was intending to do a simple 8 psi setup with an RRFPR but reading the threads here scared me away from that... at least with this particular turbo.

I don't like the manifold either. I'm just in a position where I need to cut corners where I can. I'm spending the money I would have spent on the manifold on a MIG welder today (atm all I have available is arc) and I need the MIG for other stuff around here (My dad's CJ5 project among other things) and making some piping. The other ones I've seen go for at least three hundred something. Even JGS... and I thought there log manifolds were pretty cheap the last time I looked. Like two hundred something. *shrugs* I'd really prefer a bottom mount but people say it's hard to fit a T3/T4 down there... plus the price point. I want my A/C too. *shrugs some more*

Would it be wise to install the lower temperature thermostat from SPL should the stocker be fine? I ask because I know heat kills engines and this one isn't exactly in the best of shape.

All that said I found the Supra MAF information here and after looking at that thread I'm not sure if I can get my M3 MAF to work with the 240sx since it has 4 wires instead of 5 like the Supra MAF (and I'm assuming the 240sx). I guess I need to go look at my 240's schematics b/c if I can get that MAF to work I may splurge on injectors.


Modified by Veriest1 at 10:15 AM 7/1/2008

[WDRacing]

The only real evidence about ROM tunes I can offer is that all of the current availabe tunes are 100% better then the SAFC. I have read more then 1000 threads about people having issues with the safc and tuning.

Emance is perfect for what it does.

WD

[240sxvaj]

seriously dont waste your money on the afc. I have an afcneo and after getting it tuned by TWO dyno shops and wasted over $450 still wasn't getting the good mpg and power throughout the powerband. I recently went Emance and big @sss difference. the power response was reall good, it ran like stock when it wasnt in boost and when i went into boost i was kicking ***. I think the reason for the maximum power is because of timing, on the afc you would have to retard your timing for boost and you would loose that response in the low throttle. If just retard your timing you are going to feel that lag of response. Emance only retard timing whenever you are in boost for maximum power and mpg. and of course good afr for boost and regular driving. I'm actually gettting my motor built at the moment and after i get it done, i going to visit him for a fine tune. Best guy to ever work with.

If you decide to go w/emance just let him know Blong told you about him.

[DevilMB3017]

Quick notes for ya...

The JGS manifold with a T3/T4 can allow you to keep your a/c, no problems

IIRC - The 240SX stock MAF has three wires it needs. The Z32 MAF has four.

[240sxvaj]

Quick note for ya...

The JGS manifold with a T3/T4 can allow you to keep your a/c, no problems

Just curious did you have to custom a downpipe if you use the jgs manifold?

[DevilMB3017]

Just curious did you have to custom a downpipe if you use the jgs manifold?

Nope. I used the turbo elbow pipe that JGS kit includes along with the Megan Racing SR20 dowpipe to connect to the cat. I used this because it has a flexpipe section, which I HIGHLY reccomend. Much less stress is put on the manifold and studs in the engine.

Another note: A higher flow thermostat isn't needed. As long as your stock one is working, keep it around. I'm pushing close to 300 rwhp with the stock cooling system...

[Veriest1]

Well, I guess I'll give emance a shot. No reason not to at the price point he's at.

Quick notes for ya...

The JGS manifold with a T3/T4 can allow you to keep your a/c, no problems

I don't really want to pay that much for a manifold since it'll practically double the amount I'm spending to put this kit together since I already had the pricier parts.

Nope. I used the turbo elbow pipe that JGS kit includes along with the Megan Racing SR20 dowpipe to connect to the cat. I used this because it has a flexpipe section, which I HIGHLY reccomend. Much less stress is put on the manifold and studs in the engine.

Another note: A higher flow thermostat isn't needed. As long as your stock one is working, keep it around. I'm pushing close to 300 rwhp with the stock cooling system...

The JGS is a top mount (or more of an angle mount from the pictures. I thought the SR20 downpipes only worked with bottom mounts. Although I suppose it is merely a function of lining things up and what you intend to do with the midsection.

[shimizu_17]

Id still keep the safc but also get the rom tune as well. If the rom tune is off you can adjust it a little bit. Also if you have the safc 2 you can have the deceleration setting which is great to have because myself and many other's with Ka-t's that run atmospheric bov have idle issues if you do not have the safc 2 to compensate for it. Even when I had disconnected my bov and capped it off I still had idle issues. So the safc 2 really helped me out.

[240sxvaj]

Id still keep the safc but also get the rom tune as well. If the rom tune is off you can adjust it a little bit. Also if you have the safc 2 you can have the deceleration setting which is great to have because myself and many other's with Ka-t's that run atmospheric bov have idle issues if you do not have the safc 2 to compensate for it. Even when I had disconnected my bov and capped it off I still had idle issues. So the safc 2 really helped me out.

What were your hotwire settings? and decel setting? i have emance ecu tuned for z32maf and i dont know what hotwire should i use on my afcneo. i actually have it set-up on 1in1out. It runs but i have problem with cold start. As soon as i get the car to warm up a bit then it doesnt die anymore. weird.

[DevilMB3017]

The JGS is a top mount (or more of an angle mount from the pictures. I thought the SR20 downpipes only worked with bottom mounts. Although I suppose it is merely a function of lining things up and what you intend to do with the midsection.

The JGS kit has a turbo outlet elbow that puts it as the same location as an SR20 downpipe would need to connect.

[Veriest1]

Hmmm didn't know that... to bad it's still so expensive.

In other news I got a pretty good deal on SR injectors yesterday.

[Veriest1]

So I've been looking at my 240's engine bay and I'm quite happy with how much room there is to work with compared to what I'm used to.

My question is has anyone put the intercooler in the engine bay like this?



I forgot to draw in the AC fan but that would definitely be there as well.

Benefits would be:1) Keeping the intercooler from hanging low and getting snagged on something.2) Not having to hack up the bumper. Yay for maintaining crash ratings.3) Short and pretty easy pipe routing.4) Sleeper style.

[480sx]

Yea people do it, but i dont think its a good way to run an IC. The IC is not going to be nearly as effective as one thats a front mount. Especially if you have the condenser in front of the rad. Butting it up to the back of the radiator is going to heat soak the IC from the radiator.

[Veriest1]

Yea people do it, but i dont think its a good way to run an IC. The IC is not going to be nearly as effective as one thats a front mount. Especially if you have the condenser in front of the rad. Butting it up to the back of the radiator is going to heat soak the IC from the radiator.

That's what I was worried about. Well crap.

[one_white_s14]

I have the safc and zeitronix wideband. Tuned it myself with my laptop and car and has ran great for 15k at 7lbs. The only issue I had when I first installed it was a backfire when letting off the gas. Switched to a blow through MAF setup and problem solved. SAFC does have a setting to compensate for this but after reading about the blow through I wanted to go that route anyway.

[one_white_s14]

I've never heard of the stock KA fuel filter being a problem either but if it makes you feel better to swap one in from a 300zx I guess it wouldn't hurt.

[DMan II-40]

I've never heard of the stock KA fuel filter being a problem either but if it makes you feel better to swap one in from a 300zx I guess it wouldn't hurt.

I read somewhere that most of the nissan fuel filters have the same part number or something like that. And they said they are exactly the same thing...