Bad power steering pump or hose? Help me out

[BrianZ32]

Whats up fellas

Im going to make this short and easy to understand. I will start off by telling symptoms. Steering is really tough at start and will only loosen until i drive forward a bit. Realized was low on PS fluid and refilling it help. Then realized i was leaking PS somewhere when after driving about 30 mins on the freeway. Came to a stop and bunch of white smoke coming out from straight under the PS reservoir. I knew it was leaking for some time now but it is worse now where after about 10-15 mins of driving, i can smell and see smoke. Directly underneath PS reservoir and where all components are REALLY DIRTY. Bunch of grime and grease, dirt, etc... and can even see a bunch on control arms underneath the car. My main question is how can i confirm what is leaking? Either my PS pump or PS hose? I dont want to replace both just yet as I am on a budget. I cannot directly see a leak and locate it. Then again i havent exactly FULLY examined it, just from on top.
My Z is a 93', 2+2 with about 119xxx miles. Any advice would help definitely. I already heard/read it can be a head gasket? Somebody give me more info of that please. Thanks fellas! #nicofam

[DCaff300ZX]

Welcome!
Not much to look at here, there is obviously a leak and only the hose or outlet spout on the reservoir could be the issue (also be sure the reservoir cap/seal isn't bad) so if the hose connection isn't broken/loose, replacing the hose would be your solution and is about one of the easiest jobs possible on a Z32. The OSM in the "everything you need to know...Z32" sticky is your best friend for Z32 tests and repairs.
Also as you noticed the leaking fluid coats the alternator and makes a real mess, you want to get that leak fixed and leakage cleaned up ASAP as the fluid WILL take out your alternator (very common issue) and already has damaged it surely from what you wrote, so be ready for that.

[BrianZ32]

Welcome!
Not much to look at here, there is obviously a leak and only the hose or outlet spout on the reservoir could be the issue (also be sure the reservoir cap/seal isn't bad) so if the hose connection isn't broken/loose, replacing the hose would be your solution and is about one of the easiest jobs possible on a Z32. The OSM in the "everything you need to know...Z32" sticky is your best friend for Z32 tests and repairs.
Also as you noticed the leaking fluid coats the alternator and makes a real mess, you want to get that leak fixed and leakage cleaned up ASAP as the fluid WILL take out your alternator (very common issue) and already has damaged it surely from what you wrote, so be ready for that.

Thanks for the response
I have a strong feeling its the hose connected to the reservoir because its a mess and i can kinda see it (kinda) but anytime i look for replacement hoses, its the entire thing. Am i correct? To replace the PS hose, its the entire thing? Or can i purchase individual hosing for it? Again thanks for the pretty quick response

[amc49]

Almost always the pressure hose rather than the return one. The return is easy to fix but the pressure hose has to be bought in its' entirety as it comes under a thousand lbs. of pressure and no way will you be changing just a piece of hose on that.

[amc49]

If you won't examine it FULLY then we can't help as even the pump front seal could be leaking. You MUST clean the area up and then inspect again or risk mistakes in judgement there.

[BrianZ32]

If you won't examine it FULLY then we can't help as even the pump front seal could be leaking. You MUST clean the area up and then inspect again or risk mistakes in judgement there.

I understand that but i am an newcomer, upcoming learner so i am fairly new to all of this. I can tell you mostly from what i see, i can definitely see the hose from on top is leaking, i dont know about the lower bottom portion and it is a little difficult to see. I took plenty of photos and as soon as i figure out how to post photos, ill share them so you guys can help me out because i only have tomorrow off to be able to fix it.

[BrianZ32]

This is the wheel well
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... enbbsw.jpg
This is directly underneath and how dirty it is, it got all over
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... yhkiwl.jpg
This is looking directly up from underneath (notice how it already got tons on alternator)
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... hfcsls.jpg
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... mkf2yr.jpg
This is the view from on top next to PS reservoir
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... cbkwsx.jpg

This is the best that i can get to explaining/showing you guys how bad it got. Again, i only have all day tomorrow to fix my issue so quicker responses are much appreciated! Based on these photos, can you guys tell whether if it is the pump or just the hoses? Thanks

[amc49]

(sigh)

Your pics are worthless, they show nothing.

By being a 'newcomer' does that mean you just got your eyes installed??? Still learning how to use them? Because that's what you NEED TO DO.

And telling people to be quicker that are helping you for free....................uh, the last time I checked there were no slaves here.

You are obviously young and need to learn how to play the game, tomorrow (today) may be a loooooooong day.............luck.

Fix the driver first, then fixing the cars becomes so much easier....................

[BrianZ32]

(sigh)

Your pics are worthless, they show nothing.

By being a 'newcomer' does that mean you just got your eyes installed??? Still learning how to use them? Because that's what you NEED TO DO.

And telling people to be quicker that are helping you for free....................uh, the last time I checked there were no slaves here.

You are obviously young and need to learn how to play the game, tomorrow (today) may be a loooooooong day.............luck.

Fix the driver first, then fixing the cars becomes so much easier....................

Would i really be here if i wasnt the slighest bit mechanically inclined? Im trying to learn here and receive nothing but negative comments from your arrogant attitude. Yes NEWCOMER as in still in college trying to learn about mechanics to work on my Z, didnt grow up with anything teaching me the baby steps and so i have to learn by myself. Now, either provide me with some useful information or shy away. Im not asking for "quick responses", i just said they were preferred just like anyone else. Seeing its my daily, i need to get it run properly, sooner the better. Carry on.

[amc49]

Thank you.

What part of cleaning the area up to find your leak to not waste any money on parts you don't need did you not get? Even a newcomer can do that. And now at least hinted at for the 3rd time. You're asking us to render judgement on what you are the most qualified person to figure out being that you are physically there to look at the situation firsthand.

I count at least 5 pieces of useful information given to you by me alone now but obviously overlooked, can't fix anything like that.

I'll leave you alone...........now you know what I mean about fixing drivers, I've been there a thousand times...........

[NolimitZ32]

OP, As much as I disagree with the attitude of some members on here I can't do anything but agree with the message, YOU need to do the leg work to PROPERLY diagnose the problem, or you can change out the HP and LP lines, Reservoir and Pump and your leak will go away (at least this one). You want a step by step, here:
1. Clean EVERYTHING with a toothbrush and terry cloth.
2. Place car on lift or blocks or jack-stands. (I recommend AGAINST jack stands for this)
3. Top off PS Fluid.
4. Start the car and get a friend to sit in the driver's seat and turn the wheel lock to lock while you look for the leak.

To do this successfully you MUST like amc said CLEAN EVERYTHING.

[BrianZ32]

OP, As much as I disagree with the attitude of some members on here I can't do anything but agree with the message, YOU need to do the leg work to PROPERLY diagnose the problem, or you can change out the HP and LP lines, Reservoir and Pump and your leak will go away (at least this one). You want a step by step, here:
1. Clean EVERYTHING with a toothbrush and terry cloth.
2. Place car on lift or blocks or jack-stands. (I recommend AGAINST jack stands for this)
3. Top off PS Fluid.
4. Start the car and get a friend to sit in the driver's seat and turn the wheel lock to lock while you look for the leak.

To do this successfully you MUST like amc said CLEAN EVERYTHING.

Thank you, i can respect that answer much more.
I took most of yesterday to thoroughly inspect with a buddy of mine. This leak got into places i wouldnt expect. Was still a little difficult to determine where it was coming from exactly, but, i can almost conclude its the pump itself. Did a lot of cleaning, after running the car about 10 mins and driving around the block, went back underneath and realized fluid was coming out straight from where the pump pulley is. The whole pump was drenched. Also realized that on top where the hose connected to reservoir was leaking. I dont know if its the pump doing that as well, but i figure to replace the hoses as well. Not the high pressure hose.
Does anyone have a write up on replacing the pump itself?

[BrianZ32]

Thank you.

What part of cleaning the area up to find your leak to not waste any money on parts you don't need did you not get? Even a newcomer can do that. And now at least hinted at for the 3rd time. You're asking us to render judgement on what you are the most qualified person to figure out being that you are physically there to look at the situation firsthand.

I count at least 5 pieces of useful information given to you by me alone now but obviously overlooked, can't fix anything like that.

I'll leave you alone...........now you know what I mean about fixing drivers, I've been there a thousand times...........

A much simpler version of your response would have been taken not as harsh. Im not afraid to get my hands dirty with this type of work. Im just that type of guy that likes to make sure what they're doing. As mentioned, it is my daily and i dont want to risk injuring it more as i really need it. Thats all. I was waiting for best answer before i did anything, i understand maybe my provided info wasnt enough, thats why i went under there right after and cleaned it all up to try and give you guys, the more knowledgeable on Z's, more info to help me out.

[NolimitZ32]

Its pretty straight forward, you should use the FSM (link in my signature) for guidance, if you have very strong but nimble (read small) hands and shorty wrenches you may get away with only removing the fan shroud and radiator but more than likely you will have to remove the fan shroud, radiator, fan itself, and alternator just to get to the back nut on the PS pump mounting bolt. All I can say is have fun.

[DCaff300ZX]

Its pretty straight forward, you should use the FSM (link in my signature) for guidance, if you have very strong but nimble (read small) hands and shorty wrenches you may get away with only removing the fan shroud and radiator but more than likely you will have to remove the fan shroud, radiator, fan itself, and alternator just to get to the back nut on the PS pump mounting bolt. All I can say is have fun.

Agreed, I pulled off my NA pump a few months ago to complete a HICAS removal kit and it went about as NoLimit suggests. The damn thing was a bit hard to get completely out of there still, may be easier through the bottom if you remove your shrouds and after you do everything you can from the top...and be SURE to loosen the high pressure hose first before the pump is removed, as you won't be able to get that off with the pump loose and it's still a b**** to get a wrench on and move (space as always).
Have patience and take a break if necessary (I did), and Good Luck.
Sorry about how this went down, I was away a few days and wasn't able to check back on this post.

[DCaff300ZX]

Thank you, i can respect that answer much more.
I can almost conclude its the pump itself. Did a lot of cleaning, after running the car about 10 mins and driving around the block, went back underneath and realized fluid was coming out straight from where the pump pulley is. The whole pump was drenched. Also realized that on top where the hose connected to reservoir was leaking. I dont know if its the pump doing that as well, but i figure to replace the hoses as well. Not the high pressure hose.
Does anyone have a write up on replacing the pump itself?

I am concerned that you didn't follow instructions perfectly here, in that it was suggested that you start and ran the engine while you or your buddy watches the pump and reservoir looking for the leak...not taking the car for a spin and checking afterwards as you did, as this allows the fluid to spread around via wind/turbulence/leak flow and not allow you to pinpoint where it originates. Given that if the upper return hose is leaking as generally is the case and you suspect, the fluid rapidly runs down over everything below which can indicate the pump or front seal incorrectly, possibly, unless you see the leak re-establish from the pump yourself and from a cleaned condition. Having the car on blocks high enough to view underneath while also able to work from above will work best for this job, as suggested, and well as trying to limit running the engine to leak inspections and not driving the car.
I think that it would be worthwhile for you in this case to replace the easier return hose which is most likely the issue or a big part of it, clean everything up well, and then without driving the car, start the engine and turn the steering back and forth with someone up front watching things carefully around the reservoir and pump, looking for where any leak comes from and if so shutting down and working from there.
It's not impossible the pump is bad, just more likely the problem lies elsewhere and worth checking everything carefully to be thorough and possibly save wasted time and hassle.

[BrianZ32]

UPDATE: So i went about it myself with a buddy, and after thorough inspection, we concluded it was the pump. I ran the test exactly how DCaff said to, and realized it was coming straight from the pump. Must i say this was a PITA job but hey, it only took me like 6 hours. Seeing that it was my first time, i feel like saved myself tons of labor costs. Got rid of the smoke entirely replacing the PS pump, atleast for the moment which is enough to satisfy me. Thanks everyone for their responses and info!

[NolimitZ32]

If you are planning on owning this car AND working on it yourself you better get ready for lots of bruised knuckles and looong days in the driveway.

[DCaff300ZX]

If you are planning on owning this car AND working on it yourself you better get ready for lots of bruised knuckles and looong days in the driveway.

VERY true OP, although the more you do the more used to things you become, plus (hopefully) you do a little working ahead when re-assembling to make a return trip easier such as a little cleaning/tidying and tucking and repositioning.
Glad to see you got a solid line on your issue!

[BrianZ32]

If you are planning on owning this car AND working on it yourself you better get ready for lots of bruised knuckles and looong days in the driveway.

VERY true OP, although the more you do the more used to things you become, plus (hopefully) you do a little working ahead when re-assembling to make a return trip easier such as a little cleaning/tidying and tucking and repositioning.
Glad to see you got a solid line on your issue!

Yes, took me quite some time, was the dirtiest job i have done (and i havent done that many). Went to the bathroom to wash my hands and found like 10 cuts and bruises lol. I appreciate the help fellas!

[Ace2cool]

Hey, glad you got it sorted, but I've got a huge question. You said PS fluid earlier. Are you actually using power steering fluid? Cause if so, that's more than likely your issue. These run on Auto Trans Fluid, and anything thicker, such as PS fluid, will blow the seals. Just trying to save you from the same issue happening down the road, cause if you blow your seals on the steering rack, that's a PITA to replace.

[DCaff300ZX]

Hey, glad you got it sorted, but I've got a huge question. You said PS fluid earlier. Are you actually using power steering fluid? Cause if so, that's more than likely your issue. These run on Auto Trans Fluid, and anything thicker, such as PS fluid, will blow the seals. Just trying to save you from the same issue happening down the road, cause if you blow your seals on the steering rack, that's a PITA to replace.

OOoooo, awesome catch Ace...definitely second the PS fluid advise, and hopefully OP just meant the fluid coming from the PS and assuming it was PS fluid. I had to do a rack in the NA for that reason...

[BrianZ32]

Hey, glad you got it sorted, but I've got a huge question. You said PS fluid earlier. Are you actually using power steering fluid? Cause if so, that's more than likely your issue. These run on Auto Trans Fluid, and anything thicker, such as PS fluid, will blow the seals. Just trying to save you from the same issue happening down the road, cause if you blow your seals on the steering rack, that's a PITA to replace.

OOoooo, awesome catch Ace...definitely second the PS fluid advise, and hopefully OP just meant the fluid coming from the PS and assuming it was PS fluid. I had to do a rack in the NA for that reason...

This is the first i am hearing of this...is that bad? Ive been using PS fluid in the reservoir this entire time...

[TwoZeezs]

This is the wheel well
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... enbbsw.jpg
This is directly underneath and how dirty it is, it got all over
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... yhkiwl.jpg
This is looking directly up from underneath (notice how it already got tons on alternator)
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... hfcsls.jpg
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... mkf2yr.jpg
This is the view from on top next to PS reservoir
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... cbkwsx.jpg

This is the best that i can get to explaining/showing you guys how bad it got. Again, i only have all day tomorrow to fix my issue so quicker responses are much appreciated! Based on these photos, can you guys tell whether if it is the pump or just the hoses? Thanks

Wow so this look EXACTLY like the leak problem i have lol, even the wheel well issue. How did u ultimately solve the problem? replace the entire PSpump?hoses? both?

[BrianZ32]

This is the wheel well
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... enbbsw.jpg
This is directly underneath and how dirty it is, it got all over
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... yhkiwl.jpg
This is looking directly up from underneath (notice how it already got tons on alternator)
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... hfcsls.jpg
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... mkf2yr.jpg
This is the view from on top next to PS reservoir
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p48 ... cbkwsx.jpg

This is the best that i can get to explaining/showing you guys how bad it got. Again, i only have all day tomorrow to fix my issue so quicker responses are much appreciated! Based on these photos, can you guys tell whether if it is the pump or just the hoses? Thanks

Wow so this look EXACTLY like the leak problem i have lol, even the wheel well issue. How did u ultimately solve the problem? replace the entire PSpump?hoses? both?

My main issue was the pump itself leaking so i ended up replacing it along with the two hoses that connect to the reservoir. Not the long high pressure hose. However, i didnt properly tighten the pulley for the PS pump so i am currently encountering a belt issue but as long as you do everything correctly, everything should come out well.

[NolimitZ32]

OOoooo, awesome catch Ace...definitely second the PS fluid advise, and hopefully OP just meant the fluid coming from the PS and assuming it was PS fluid. I had to do a rack in the NA for that reason...

This is the first i am hearing of this...is that bad? Ive been using PS fluid in the reservoir this entire time...

Yes and no, depending on how long it's been in there, they are in essence both hydraulic fluid but ATF contains detergents and other components that help the system operate as designed, the system was designed for AFT and should be used with ATF. Also PS fluid is hygroscopic which means it absorbs and retains water which when passed through the PS system causes some of the components to break down. You need to flush the entire system out using ATF and use AFT only from here out.

[Ace2cool]

Well, I agree and disagree with Anton on this one. It comes down to viscosity on this one. Systems are spec'd with a certain viscosity hydraulic fluid, and PS fluid is much more viscous than ATF. In a perfect world, they should be interchangeable, but with the age of the cars and the materials used, the seals and hoses just won't hold up. However, even in that perfect world, you're looking at long term damage to the pump, since it is working much harder to push the more viscous fluid.

[amc49]

You guys are killing me with all this ATF/PS fluid stuff, the fluids are pretty much EXACTLY the same other than one has dye and the other doesn't and they drop a few additives that will not hurt the PS system at all anyway. Oh, they charge more for PS fluid than ATF and how they screw you. Those extra additives in ATF are for the ATX clutches ONLY and have nothing to do with PS fluid at all, they just simply are along for the ride. Both fluids need anti-foaming and anti-varnish detergents. ALL PS fluids as well as ATX are pretty much 10 weight oil until possibly the very last few years and BOTH are not hydroscopic at all other than the specialty Honda type PS fluid which covers the weird plastic impellers Honda uses in some of their units, the only big difference so far. I've used and intermixed ATF and PS fluid for 40 years in every brand I can think of and no problems ever at all and even in the garage on other people's cars. Most dealerships now use ATF in the PS units as it saves inventory cost and the current PS fluid will be whatever the shop currently uses for ATF. The PS pumps are almost the same construction as ATF oil pumps and again another reason why the pumps can interchange the fluids all day long if not a Honda one. Build a few like I have. All of this was current as of the last time I worked parts in 2014-some things may have changed slightly since then of course. Talk to the oil company reps, they'll tell you. I talked to plenty of them. I messed with some of their minds as well, I am WAAAY leftist as far as car repair goes and have never paid for a car repair in my entire life. I do everything you can think of on a car 100% myself including ATX rebuilds and wheel alignment with no machine needed. My cars last freakin' forever.

If you want to stop PS pump failures look at how you fill new systems, the classic error that 90% of the people make that damages the pumps instantly to begin to make noise a day later and then blamed on 'bad pumps' when there was nothing wrong with them at all until somebody did incompetent work on them. I warranted plenty of them to later take apart and see why they failed.

Nobody ever flushes the PS system out either and why they fail, the gray color the fluid gets is microscopic metal bits that eat at all of your seals. I have never changed a PS part on a long stream of cars of mine and over 40 years now.

To the OP............

'Im just that type of guy that likes to make sure what they're doing.'

Exactly what I was getting at with you cleaning up the mess and getting under there to see what the issue is. I do the same, some things are vague enough you cannot trust anything but YOUR own perception there and often the net gets in the way of that. Telling a person where a leak is under a big mess is an intangible, impossible thing and it's simply impossible and of course the car could care less. You even if a novice have to power through that, either with solid thinking or effort and the only way to be truly sure, to put YOUR own eyes on a thing to be sure of what you are looking at.

Sorry I come across so strong but at my age there is not a lot of time left and still plenty of people to be taught and often p-ssing them off is a great way to get them to listen.

[BrianZ32]

You guys are killing me with all this ATF/PS fluid stuff, the fluids are pretty much EXACTLY the same other than one has dye and the other doesn't and they drop a few additives that will not hurt the PS system at all anyway. Oh, they charge more for PS fluid than ATF and how they screw you. Those extra additives in ATF are for the ATX clutches ONLY and have nothing to do with PS fluid at all, they just simply are along for the ride. Both fluids need anti-foaming and anti-varnish detergents. ALL PS fluids as well as ATX are pretty much 10 weight oil until possibly the very last few years and BOTH are not hydroscopic at all other than the specialty Honda type PS fluid which covers the weird plastic impellers Honda uses in some of their units, the only big difference so far. I've used and intermixed ATF and PS fluid for 40 years in every brand I can think of and no problems ever at all and even in the garage on other people's cars. Most dealerships now use ATF in the PS units as it saves inventory cost and the current PS fluid will be whatever the shop currently uses for ATF. The PS pumps are almost the same construction as ATF oil pumps and again another reason why the pumps can interchange the fluids all day long if not a Honda one. Build a few like I have. All of this was current as of the last time I worked parts in 2014-some things may have changed slightly since then of course. Talk to the oil company reps, they'll tell you. I talked to plenty of them. I messed with some of their minds as well, I am WAAAY leftist as far as car repair goes and have never paid for a car repair in my entire life. I do everything you can think of on a car 100% myself including ATX rebuilds and wheel alignment with no machine needed. My cars last freakin' forever.

If you want to stop PS pump failures look at how you fill new systems, the classic error that 90% of the people make that damages the pumps instantly to begin to make noise a day later and then blamed on 'bad pumps' when there was nothing wrong with them at all until somebody did incompetent work on them. I warranted plenty of them to later take apart and see why they failed.

Nobody ever flushes the PS system out either and why they fail, the gray color the fluid gets is microscopic metal bits that eat at all of your seals. I have never changed a PS part on a long stream of cars of mine and over 40 years now.

To the OP............

'Im just that type of guy that likes to make sure what they're doing.'

Exactly what I was getting at with you cleaning up the mess and getting under there to see what the issue is. I do the same, some things are vague enough you cannot trust anything but YOUR own perception there and often the net gets in the way of that. Telling a person where a leak is under a big mess is an intangible, impossible thing and it's simply impossible and of course the car could care less. You even if a novice have to power through that, either with solid thinking or effort and the only way to be truly sure, to put YOUR own eyes on a thing to be sure of what you are looking at.

Sorry I come across so strong but at my age there is not a lot of time left and still plenty of people to be taught and often p-ssing them off is a great way to get them to listen.

Okay so if i filled up the reservoir half way with ps fluid, and i fill up the rest with ATF...i shouldnt have any issues? And completely understandable. I may have came off very uneducated and well, i may not be as educated as most of you on here about Z32's, however, i am trying and may not know the proper way of approaching a problem like this which is what i mean by saying i like to know what i am doing. I feel like more mechanically inclined compared to others, enough to WANT to work on my own car and learn. I gotta start off somewhere. No hard feelings in the end, if i had to deal with such dumb questions, having the knowledge, id probably get annoyed as well. But i like helping out people so...anyway, im just rambling on. Am i clear to top off my reservoir with ATF if it already has PS fluid or should i flush out and re-fill?

[amc49]

You can mix them all day long, I've done it for 40 years. Stay away from the Honda type is all, the others you can even mix the basic types like syn and not or Dexron and Mercon. Any difference in additives is again for the clutch materials and how you get into trouble on ATX. The pumps on both are steel except for the Honda ones and all they need is a good quality oil. For a super string of years through the '50s, 60s, and '70s all PS fluid on the planet was type A ATX fluid for Chryslers and it was used in Fords and GM products across the map. I am currently using type F in my Fords even though they call for Mercon V, I had an amount of it and wanted to get some use for it. No issues at all, the only difference is that any syn fluid will last a while longer due to the ability to take higher temperatures as compared to dino oils. Regardless, watch the fluid color to know when to change it, the more tilt toward a gray color and then black the more the need to change it.