Awesome year for Honda. Ridgeline still a joke.

[Jesda]

I'd love to be a shareholder right now.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/05....v=23

Compare 22,000 Ridgelines in a year to 125,000 F-series trucks in a month. I smell an impending flop. Honda doesn't understand the American truck buyer the way Ford, GM, Chrysler, and even Nissan do. They're very different from SUV owners. Aside from a few showoff rednecks, they own boats and horses and have actual jobs that require a real truck frame and total functionality. Remember the Lincoln Blackwood? Yeah, me neither.

Most interesting is the 234% jump in Insight sales.

[1991S13]

From the moment I heard Honda was going to make a truck I knew it was going to flop.

I'd drive an El Camino before I drove a Ridgeline.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Remember the Lincoln Blackwood? Yeah, me neither.

Man, I LOVED the Blackwood.At least IT was a real truck. Just a luxed-up F150 with (strangely) nice pinstriping on the bed.

I didn't even realize Honda still made the Insight. It's a fricking OLD platform!!!

And dude...STOP comparing an El Camino to the ridgeline. It never claimed to be a truck. It claimed to be a car with a bed. It never made claims of "1/2 ton pickup" or "offroad capabilities" or "finally, a truck that's built like, well...a truck" like the ridgeline. It was simply (at least in it's peak years) a light 2 seat chevelle with a bed. The El Camino was a GREAT car.

[JESTER]

Yes, but the point is, the great car, is a better truck than what Honda is trying to pass off as a truck.

Honda sucks!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honda thinks they are Toyota. Well, this truck shows they aint even close. And Jesda, I agree, Nissan got it right with the Titan.

[Mr1der]

and the new Frontier...

I don't give a damn what Motortrend says about the Tacoma...the Frontier will whip it's a** by the flagpole at 3 o'clock.

[driverdriver]

The Ridgeline can't tow anything worthwhile. Its a "poseur" truck.

[sean8564]

ok let me get this sraight Honda mad a truck hahaha I mean I have not seen one good RWD honda Cept for NSX

[MinisterofDOOM]

It's not even RWDIt's transverse AWD.It is built on the ACCORD platform.

[JESTER]

The Accord Paltform?!?!?!

Holy s***. What a frickin joke. HONDA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! WHOOOO!!!!!!!!!

And Mr1der, I like Nissan and all, but they are gonna be hard pressed for the Frontier to take the Taco. I miss my Taco so much. Man I loved that truck.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The new Taco and the new Frontier are even more closely matched than ever. Both have nice big (well, big by today's standards. my inner mullet still chuckles when I say 4 liters and big in the same sentence...) 4 liter V6's with great power curves and plenty of torque (284 lb ft in the FRONTIER!), both have fully boxed ladder frames, both have towing ratings that would make a 96 F150 cry, and enormous offroad cabability.

For me, it comes down to one thing: The Frontier is VQ powered, the Taco is not. Also, the frontier is better looking, IMO. I don't like all the creases and bulges in the Toyota's bodywork.

[JESTER]

I have to go with the Yota, but they need to change the grills back to the one like was in my 97 model.

I hadnt read up on the Frontiers. Glad to hear Nissan is getting it done.

"Have you driven over a Ford lately?"

[elwesso]

Personally, when it comes to trucks, I wont buy anything foreign... IMHO nissan, toyota, etc dont know what theyre doing... You cant take principles of japanese cars and make them work on trucks. there are certain things you can/cant do... Some of these new japanese trucks are impressive, but for the person who actually uses them for the intended purpose i forsee they will not be reliable enough or cheap enough to own.....

Trucks dont need HP, they need torque and a firm chassis... Our suburban is a great truck IMHO.. its comfortable, has enough power, has nice enough amentities, but its not SO nice that youd feel bad about getting it dirty. With the infiniti QX and even the nissan SUV, i wouldnt want to take it off-road because its a nice ride... I dont have any problems getting in hte suburban with muddy boots... Doesnt mean its a POS, it just means I have no problem using it for its intended purpose...

I found it pretty cool that we drove 2 hours, 4 people, all our stuff, and we were towing about 6000lbs (my Q on a trailer) and it didnt even bat an eye. You could tell this is EXACTLY what it was designed for...

Honda, Nissan, Toyota, whoever will NEVER be able to match the americans in building trucks for what they were intended for.. They can make them comfy, pimp, and look good, but they just arent the same.....

[MinisterofDOOM]

Wes.I'm a truck guy.I was always a truck guy.Even before I was a sedan guy, I was a truck guy. I grew up driving trucks, big and small, learned to drive in one. I know trucks.

The Titan IS the best Half ton. Even "truck guys" agree. It has been through numerous published "workhorse" tests and stood the test and then some. In fact, the major gripe of most publications is that it's TOO rugged. Ride quality suffers in favor of payload capacity and offroad capability. Gearing is not always cruise-friendly...it's set up for optimum torque utilization. And the Titan makes more torque and has a higher towing capacity than any other half ton, including the new F150. I don't see it being expensive to maintain or unreliable. Early VKs may have oil consuption issues, but that's been fixed now. Aside from that, I see no reason to assume that the Titan would be any more expensive to maintain than GM, dodge, or Ford. The Titan is also bigger. And, incase all that superiority ain't enough, it out accelerates all the competition.

The Titan is as true a truck as can be built. They do not apply their car philosophy to the truck...they've applied the american philosophy to their truck, using their superior engineering and technology.

The Tundra is a joke, though. Neither full size nor powerful, yet it's priced the same as trucks that are. Plus...it's a Toyota...

Small trucks, though, are a COMPLETELY different world than big trucks.Americans (aside from dodge) have got it ALL wrong. American auto makers think small trucks are supposed to be poor handling cars with rattley beds. Ford's ranger is a rolling stand up comedy. It's small, gutless, rattly, cheap, and based on a platform that is approaching it's 24th birthday, and the next model will CONTINUE to use that aged and teeny platform.Chevy's Colorado is good, but it's base engine is a turd, and the lack of a V8 in a truck that shares a platform with a V8 powered SUV is unacceptable. The Trailblazer's V8 should have been designed into the Colorado. Chev offers the excuse "it wont fit." Well it fit in the TB...you can't say you couldn't make it fit.

Then there's toyota and Nissan. Powerplants are godly. Drivetrains are bulletproof. Frames are solid and well done. They are big but not bulky or "fat." They offer abilities to match ford's phenomenally successful 80-something to 96 F150 in a smaller package. They even seat people comfortably in the crew cab back seats now.

There's no way I believe that just being japanese makes a truck less of a truck.I just believe that if you're going to build a truck, build a god damned TRUCK! If you're going to call it full size, build it FULL SIZE. Full size trucks do not have ONE 4.7 liter engine option. Full size trucks have nice big 5.5 to 6 liter V8s. And that's just toyota, which is still ladder frame, and true truck structurally...it's just executed all wrong.

Naw, the Titan really is the best half ton.Nissan needs to find a diesel engine contractor and get a 3/4 ton and 1 ton version out there. New frame, nice big diesel, same bodywork--just like dodge does.

[Mr1der]

I personally think Nissan has taken a MUCH better approach on the truck market than Toyota as of late.

Don't get me wrong, I love the old 22r trucks, and the Tacoma WAS the better of the two until the new incarnation of the frontier.

it really takes after big brother Titan. (if I was gonna buy a new halfton, it'd get the nod over the F150 I think...mainly because it has gross display of balls)

[Jesda]

I talked to a guy who builds the Titan frames in Mississippi.

It doesn't mean anything, but it makes me sound cool!
Modified by Jesda at 10:07 PM 9/13/2005

[1991S13]

Yes, but the point is, the great car, is a better truck than what Honda is trying to pass off as a truck.

Thanks, that is exactly what I meant.

Sorry to insult your El Camino, if it makes you feel better I would take a Ranchero over the Ridgeline, too

[Jesda]

Son of a b****. I forgot to take a screenshot of "11111 posts"

Now I have to wait for 22222.

[Mr1der]

I talked to a guy who builds the Titan frames in Mississippi.

It doesn't mean anything, but it makes me sound cool!

Modified by Jesda at 10:07 PM 9/13/2005

psssh!

I packaged motors to send!

that's right, I had my hands all up in some titan motors...and a QR or two...

oh, and a supercharged frontier motor...

[dfw240_EE]

Personally, when it comes to trucks, I wont buy anything foreign... IMHO nissan, toyota, etc dont know what theyre doing... You cant take principles of japanese cars and make them work on trucks. there are certain things you can/cant do... Some of these new japanese trucks are impressive, but for the person who actually uses them for the intended purpose i forsee they will not be reliable enough or cheap enough to own.....

Trucks dont need HP, they need torque and a firm chassis... Our suburban is a great truck IMHO.. its comfortable, has enough power, has nice enough amentities, but its not SO nice that youd feel bad about getting it dirty. With the infiniti QX and even the nissan SUV, i wouldnt want to take it off-road because its a nice ride... I dont have any problems getting in hte suburban with muddy boots... Doesnt mean its a POS, it just means I have no problem using it for its intended purpose...

I found it pretty cool that we drove 2 hours, 4 people, all our stuff, and we were towing about 6000lbs (my Q on a trailer) and it didnt even bat an eye. You could tell this is EXACTLY what it was designed for...

Honda, Nissan, Toyota, whoever will NEVER be able to match the americans in building trucks for what they were intended for.. They can make them comfy, pimp, and look good, but they just arent the same.....

What about a Mercedes Benz Unimog? It's foreign and it's a real truck.http://www.mbzponton.org/image...1.jpg

[dfw240_EE]

It's not even RWDIt's transverse AWD.It is built on the ACCORD platform.

Almost forgot,

I am going to bed now, so I will look it up tomorrow to confirm. I could have sworn that the Ridgeline was based on the Acura MDX/Honda Odyssey/Honda Pilot, not the Accord. I wouldn't be surprised though if those cars shared some design elements with the Accord. Like my little brother drives a Honda CRV, and the suspension is along the same idea as the 4th to 6th gen Honda Civic. It's just enlarged.

[Jesda]

What about a Mercedes Benz Unimog? It's foreign and it's a real truck.http://www.mbzponton.org/image...1.jpg

Its not a pickup. Try loading the back of a unimog with lumber.

The Titan needs more options (powertrains, etc). You can get a Ford or GM truck in a thousand different configurations, because trucks, as the Japanese fail to understand, are TOOLS. You have to offer a variety of them for different tasks in order to gain professional customers. Imagine cutting down your toolset to just one item?

Until then, the Titan and Tundra will look like little more than philips head screwdrivers. The Titan is new, so the lack of variety is expected. What's Toyota's excuse?

[Mr1der]

the titan is like the cordless 18volt drill of the truck world...

all kinds of power and capabilities, but sometimes too rough and heavy for what you need.

[dfw240_EE]

Its not a pickup. Try loading the back of a unimog with lumber.

The Titan needs more options (powertrains, etc). You can get a Ford or GM truck in a thousand different configurations, because trucks, as the Japanese fail to understand, are TOOLS. You have to offer a variety of them for different tasks in order to gain professional customers. Imagine cutting down your toolset to just one item?

Until then, the Titan and Tundra will look like little more than philips head screwdrivers. The Titan is new, so the lack of variety is expected. What's Toyota's excuse?

I think it can be fitted with different beds and backs. In fact I am pretty sure it can since it was used for so many different uses around the world (firetrucks, farmtrucks, army trucks, everything). Plus I alway liked the whole power takeoff thing (extension of the driveshaft in the back where you can run a generator for example).

I am partial I suppose, the unimog is one of the trucks that always caught my fancy.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, you can get Unimogs with beds. You can get a unimog with ANYTHING. Every single one that rolls of the assembly line is custom made-to-order. Some guys have the hood cut away on the driver's side for enhanced visibility.

And the Titan doesn't NEED powertrain options. That's the point. If you want a V6 2wd POS, go buy a dakota or an F150. That's not the Titan's niche. Nissan has the same (excellent) philosophy as dodge does about trucks: you can never catch up to the F150 or Silverado/Sierra sales, so instead, target popular but ignored niche markets. Nissan is going after the "not too ignorant to think that just because it's japanese it's not a real truck, and smart enough to realize that trucks CAN NOT BE TOO RUGGED" crowd. Dodge has got the sport truck buyers, and the roomy cab buyers (with the Ram MegaCab, which is a short bed on the longest wheelbase and a lengthened cab to fill in the extra) as well as the heavy-duty-off-road-badass buyers with the PowerWagon package.

Nissan has "the right" niche in the truck world, as I see it. Admit it: it's not POSSIBLE to challenge Ford and GM in the truck world. Not even for Dodge--not after the garbage they crapped into showrooms in the late 80s.

I DO wish Nissan would make 3/4 and 1 ton versions, but that'd require all new frames and a new powerplant, as well as contracting out (or building their own) a diesel powerplant. What it doesn't need is any more 1/2 ton powerplant or transmission options. The Titan has the hightest towing capacity of any 1/2 ton truck. It has an overkill trans cooler on the BigTow package, and it's pretty much the most durable thing out there. All it's in need of is for idiots like the guy who wrote in to car and driver this month to drop their brainwashed brand loyalties and face the fact that someone has finally one-upped His Highness the Blue Oval.

Here's the letter from this month's Car and Driver. He contradicts himself and the very nature of reality in one short letter. God, I love hicks. --------------------------------------------------You've got to be kidding me: "Pandering the latent redneck in all of us" [Long-Term Niisan Titan SE Crew Cab 4x4, C/D, August 2005]? I would hope that a true redneck wouldn't be caught dead or a live in a Nissan Titan. C'mon! An imported 4x4 trying to do the workd of a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge? I cringe every time I see a Honda Ridgeline or Nissan Titan on the road. Where is the patriotic loyalty? The grand U.S. of A. is known for Girld Gone Wild, Crooked Politicians, and 4x4 Trucks! I don't care if you slap a V-12 in tha tNissan and it can haul a small three-bedroom house. It's still a Nissan!---------------------------------------------------

Wow...so..."no way a Nissan could do what the big three can" "but even if it could, it would suck, because it doesn't have a logo I like to look at" meanwhile "I'm an uneducated hick who lives in a half of a double-wide" is firmly imprinted between the lines.

When your thermostat doesn't go low enough to show your IQ, you know you have issues, one way or the other.

[Bubba1]

Personally, when it comes to trucks, I wont buy anything foreign... IMHO nissan, toyota, etc dont know what theyre doing... You cant take principles of japanese cars and make them work on trucks. there are certain things you can/cant do... Some of these new japanese trucks are impressive, but for the person who actually uses them for the intended purpose i forsee they will not be reliable enough or cheap enough to own.....

Trucks dont need HP, they need torque and a firm chassis... Our suburban is a great truck IMHO.. its comfortable, has enough power, has nice enough amentities, but its not SO nice that youd feel bad about getting it dirty. With the infiniti QX and even the nissan SUV, i wouldnt want to take it off-road because its a nice ride... I dont have any problems getting in hte suburban with muddy boots... Doesnt mean its a POS, it just means I have no problem using it for its intended purpose...

I found it pretty cool that we drove 2 hours, 4 people, all our stuff, and we were towing about 6000lbs (my Q on a trailer) and it didnt even bat an eye. You could tell this is EXACTLY what it was designed for...

Honda, Nissan, Toyota, whoever will NEVER be able to match the americans in building trucks for what they were intended for.. They can make them comfy, pimp, and look good, but they just arent the same.....

Your bias is showing, my bowtie friend. Toyota 4 Runners and Land Cruisers have been among the best , most reliable SUV's on the market for decades. Yep, they clearly have no idea what they're doing... Gotta compare apples to apples. If you really need the space or are towing something big, Suburban is a good choice. But as daily transportation, they are lag behind Toyota/Nissan

My dad had a Suburban for many years, it rode like a baby carriage, swallowed a ton of people/stuff, and was great on a long trip. But it was not particularly reliable and that beast consumed more than Oprah and Rosie O'Donnell together at an all-you-can-eat buffet. He eventually traded it on a Toyota as it got too expensive to operate.

[JimmyMethod]

I've got a friend still driving his Toyota Truck, before it actually had a real name... 86 or something like that. The thing is beat to hell, but still keeps on tickin'...

[Mr1der]

that's the good ol 22r for ya.

I wanna get a Landcruiser and swap one in it...