AWD 240....

[Redline240]

Why is it that this has never been atempted? I mean with all the civics out there with 60 or 70 grand into them and all the crazy projects out there, etc. It wouldn't cost much more to get a GTR front clip with all the drivetrain and suspension then a regular clip. So with some imaginative adapting of the gtr parts on the 240 its certianly feasible. I just don't understand why it hasn't been done, am i the only one that thinks it would the ultimate thing to do to a 240? Any thoughts?

Redline

[Yellow4g63]

Why is it that this has never been atempted? I mean with all the civics out there with 60 or 70 grand into them and all the crazy projects out there, etc. It wouldn't cost much more to get a GTR front clip with all the drivetrain and suspension then a regular clip. So with some imaginative adapting of the gtr parts on the 240 its certianly feasible. I just don't understand why it hasn't been done, am i the only one that thinks it would the ultimate thing to do to a 240? Any thoughts?

Redline

What are you waiting for? Go for it! be the 1st, be the internet legend.

[DriftingisLame]

I'm pretty sure the guy I bought my clip from, from custom imports has an awd RB26 240. I could be wrong though...

[Phixius]

Doug from Fairlady Z motorsports has a completed AWD s13 coupe, been running for awhile now.

The AWD s14 is not done....

[NYCRB240sx]

there was a company i remember about 8 months back maybe who was working on a DIY kit to be able to put the rb26 awd into a 240...i think it was unstable hybrid was there name. they went out of business due to lossing alot of money on something i forget what...sorry....but i have heard that it is possible...i know jon powell mentioned to me when i asked him about it that it could be done it would just take time and money to do it....but ya that would be really cool to see an AWD 240 non the less with or without the rb26 under the hood

[AmoebAssassin]

The mechanical fitment isnt the problem, but rather the wiring for the ATESSA system that's the real bish, or so it seems.

[JonPowell]

The mechanical fitment isnt the problem, but rather the wiring for the ATESSA system that's the real bish, or so it seems.

Mechanical fitment IS a problem considering the front frame rails of the 240SX arent designed to allow an asle to pass through to the suspension and the trans tunnel isnt designed to fit a trnsfer case....

Please people KNOW what youa re talking about before you post random **** to up your post count.

Refer to Phat Optimo's gallery on this site to see pics of the RB26 trans in a 240SX and what he had to do to allow the transfer case to clear the tunel....HE HAD TO CUT A CHUNK OUT! _____/ º \____

The frame rail ont he GTR looks like this with the circle being the axle...you gotta build that for the 240SX to make it all work. I call that a mechanical fitment issue.....wouldn't you?

[Redline240]

That doesn't seem like a reason not to do it...the frame rail modification shouldn't be that hard especially with a skyline front end next to me to go by...and the cutting of the tunnel is not a big deal as long as you fill it back it...i'd probaly put in a cage first so while parts of the structure are off the unibody doesn't get weak points....if anyone can find pics of that S13 AWD i'd love to see it...as for me, well my RB26 plans just got more expensive....back in 2 years with a S14 AWD GTR, lol...however continue the disscussion, didn't expect to get this much response so soon....

Redline

[Wulfgang]

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp ______/ º \____

[JonPowell]

        _____/ º \____

Your's didnt work either!

What the hell?

[Wulfgang]

Close enough now? You have to use non-breaking spaces... &nbsp. Oh well, I got your point anyway.

Yet another valuable post. Just trying to up my post count

[JonPowell]

I think I will follow suit!

[AmoebAssassin]

Mechanical fitment IS a problem considering the front frame rails of the 240SX arent designed to allow an asle to pass through to the suspension and the trans tunnel isnt designed to fit a trnsfer case....

Please people KNOW what youa re talking about before you post random **** to up your post count.

Refer to Phat Optimo's gallery on this site to see pics of the RB26 trans in a 240SX and what he had to do to allow the transfer case to clear the tunel....HE HAD TO CUT A CHUNK OUT! _____/ º \____

The frame rail ont he GTR looks like this with the circle being the axle...you gotta build that for the 240SX to make it all work. I call that a mechanical fitment issue.....wouldn't you?

Yes, that is a problem, but one that would take me shorter to remedy than the wiring dilemma. That was the intent of my post, but in retrospect it was late and apparently i didn't word it to my intent.

I acknowledge that you have more experience with RB engines than I do, but please get off your high horse. You are dealing with other intelligent people on these boards.
Modified by AmoebAssassin at 9:07 AM 6/24/2005

[JonPowell]

My intent is not to belittle or insult people but rather to spread FACTUAL information.

Wiring is not a big deal, a monkey with a roll of electrical tape.

Welding a new or modified frame rail onto a car that can A) support the weight of the engine, B) align the bumper/radiator support/headlamps properly and C) withstand the force of an impact and still protect the occupants is a whole different story.

Being in the autobody business for the last 12-13 years has taught me that somethings are real sketchy to "reengineer" and a front frame rail is definately one. Putting a kink in the rail like that and still having the car take an impact without that kink totally collapsing is gonna be a tricky feat of engineering.

I apologize if I make ANYONE feel belittled(except that Valley guy who has a vendetta to prove me wrong somewhere), my intentions aren't to do that, but rather to stop the spread of mis-information on the RB subject. I see too many people saying the wrong things that they "heard" somewhere before and continue to spread as though it is the gospel.

Noone will think less of anyone if they say "I honestly don't know."

[Valley]

nope, just don't like people that respond with d!ck remarks.

you could be omnipotent for all i care, if you're a d!ck you're a d!ck. i've just been correcting you're inacurate analogies. :-p

awd 240.... it'd be nice to hear of a rb26 powered 240 getting traction bellow 60mph

[Wulfgang]

I agree with Jon that the mechanical would be more difficult, but everyone's got their strengths and weaknesses.

On the other hand, I know that the wiring would be a sinch. Nissan control systems are always distributed, and therefore, ATESSA, like the engine control, runs its own show. Think about it... how many wires need to be connected to get an RB into an S14? Maybe 15-20. The ECU is already connected to most of the things it needs. They are on one big engine harness. And looking at the FSM, traction control is no different... 4-5 wires to talk the ECU, 4-5 wires for power, and maybe a handful of other wires to chassis sensors. The only work worth fretting over would be splicing all of those wires that run right through the SMJ (maybe like 30 wires or so). Or you could just pull the SMJ as-is from the GTR and not worry about splicing them.

Wiring is always plug-n-play. If you connect the correct wires, it WILL work. Just follow the diagrams. Custom mechanical work is not the same. Show me a diagram that tells you where to cut that hole for the AWD

The need for AWD is always controversial anyway. If you want it for the pizazz, then by all means go ahead and cut your car. But if you think you're going to get a better performing car, then you might want to reconsider. Most of the fastest (on both the street and strip) production cars sold in the US still do not have AWD.

Your original question was why hasn't it been attempted. Well, probably because back in the old days (last week) the people who put RB's in their 240's were smart folks. Stupid enough to spend $6k on a car engine (instead of maybe their kid's college fund), but smart enough to draw the line before cutting their car up to fit a questionably worthwhile AWD system. But these days (this week), there are lots of RB swaps, and somebody is bound to do it. So get off your butt, stop reading this epistle, and get it done... or someone will beat you to it.

[Phat_Optimo]

The ecu does not control the attesa system. It has several seprate electrical componets that work together to hydraulicly actuate the front wheels. I never even considered going AWD and I am using the AWD trans.

[Valley]

yes, curse those dumb folk who don't want a sr20det!

[Wulfgang]

The ecu does not control the attesa system. It has several seprate electrical componets that work together to hydraulicly actuate the front wheels. I never even considered going AWD and I am using the AWD trans.

No, but the ECU does communicate with the traction control computer. Your reason for using the AWD transmission seems like the best reason I have heard so far. Plus, the hole you cut looks like it just took a bit of sheet metal from the floorpan, which is probably not critical.

[intrexin]

now what about putting it in a nissan pick up truck that already had 4wd, thats been something i've beenwondering for a while. I kow you can put a sr20in there and they came with the ka so the mount kits ougt to work right. you already have a place for the front axes and i'm GUESSING that you caould prolly put a decent suspension in there some how. I think it would be great to go to the drag strip and kill all the mustangs and cameros with a ulgy nissan hardbody haha

[Florida240sx]

I was thinking about doing this with the truck 4wd.But knew it would be a PITA so decided to just turbo.My plans are to put a vg30dett in my project car.But If I can put a KA in there with AWD I'd rather do that.Never looked into it that much because I know it would take probably quite a bit of cutting and welding, and at the time only had 1 240.

[tight240]

It would be nice to see in my opinon, but you will loose so much hp going to the wheels, at the end of the day was it worth it. . It could be cause some people like to be different and set themselves apart, but it would jus seem reasonable to use the money to make a 1,200 hp rb26dett 240 then a stock awd rb26dett and yet loosing alot of hp to the wheels.

[Wulfgang]

So here's a hypothetical question:

If you started with a stock GTR, then removed the AWD and replaced the transmission with an RB25 transmission, could you beat another stock (AWD) GTR on the track and/or the strip?

[JonPowell]

I would say if you chagned the front oil pan to a non-AWD setup(RB25 pan) and disposed of all the other AWD equipment it is entirely possible to overcome loss of traction with loss of weight.

[Florida240sx]

Come this fall I'll look into maybe doing this again....Want to build my VG but will try to see about this idea once again.

[TheOne]

well you will gain some more weight, but still you can get +-280hp(compared to i guess 300 that people get on a stock rb26?), maybe 260 since you can loose more hp out of it.upgrade the turbos and fuel and you can get a lot more of hp to all wheels, and then traction wouldn't be such an issue as same hp on a RWD.

[Lucian_rider]

now what about putting it in a nissan pick up truck that already had 4wd, thats been something i've beenwondering for a while. I kow you can put a sr20in there and they came with the ka so the mount kits ougt to work right. you already have a place for the front axes and i'm GUESSING that you caould prolly put a decent suspension in there some how. I think it would be great to go to the drag strip and kill all the mustangs and cameros with a ulgy nissan hardbody haha

I have an old Nissan 4x4 with a KA24E engine that I swapped in place of the old NA20. Now that we have an RB20 lying around I was looking into the possibility of swapping it into the pickup but I think there are two major problems.

The RB does not I believe bolt up to the KA transmission and the front differential requires a cut away oil pan on the KA to allow the engine to sit over the top. The 4 x 4 oil pan is almost flat at the front and has a deep pocket at the back with a long oil pick-up line that comes from the front.

I would have to measure it to see if there would be enough clearance after the bottom of the pan was cut off.

The enigne bay is a little short as well but if the RB can fit in the 240 then it should fit in the pickup I would think.

Its a fun project to think about though. However I don't think I will go to the trouble.

Chris

[JonPowell]

The RB does not I believe bolt up to the KA transmission and the front differential requires a cut away oil pan on the KA to allow the engine to sit over the top. The 4 x 4 oil pan is almost flat at the front and has a deep pocket at the back with a long oil pick-up line that comes from the front.

I would have to measure it to see if there would be enough clearance after the bottom of the pan was cut off.

The enigne bay is a little short as well but if the RB can fit in the 240 then it should fit in the pickup I would think.

Its a fun project to think about though. However I don't think I will go to the trouble.

Chris

Try a 200ZR oil pan, its rear sump and what the 240Z guys are using to drop RWD RB26's in their cars...sounds like the oilpan you are describing.

The 200ZR was an RB20DET powered Z31...stock from Nissan!