Automobile: 240SX SE vs. Juke Nismo... what would you pay?

[lne937s]

So this was on Automobile today comparing the Juke Nismo to a 1998 240SX SE

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/m ... uke-nismo/

Kind of interesting despite a lack of test data. I am pretty sure a 240SX would take it here... but if you look at the prices, it brings up a question.

Adjusted for inflation, the $21,500 it cost in 1998 comes to $32,300. That would make it about the same price as a new BMW 2 series. It would make it more expensive than a V8 Mustang ($10k more than the base model)... and more expensive than a base 370z. Looking on MSN Autos, it had a similar price relationship in 1998 to the Mustang and base BMW of the day.

Now, I realize that this site is not going to be representative of the US new car market (where, for example, manual transmissions make up only 3.9% of sales), but I was wondering...

Would anyone be willing to pay $32k for a new, non-turbo 240SX replacement? What would the car need to have on it for you to be willing to pay that?

Is a ~$26k price point (like the BRZ) be more realistic?

~$20K? What would you be willing to sacrifice to make that price point? What would you need them to keep?

I do not work for Nissan, but I have a feeling these are the types of questions they are asking right now. Maybe they will listen to our responses to questions that are more relevant to the business case for the car.

[Looneybomber]

I have a hard time wanting to spend 26k on a BRZ with only 200hp. I might pay 32k if there was an option with bigger brakes, tuned suspension, bigger wheels/tires, and forced induction. Cloth seats, no nav or cartainment is fine with me. Power windows, power locks, HIDs, AC, and an audio system are a must for me though. I certainly don't need anything with leather or suede. Alcantera or microfiber is fancy enough for me.

[Bubba1]

FWIW, I think one could make the needs-more-power argument about pretty much any new stock Japanese car (including the ol' 240sx). But I don't feel the Toyobaru is overpriced for what it is, which is a small fun-to-drive RWD sports car based more on the traditional small british sports car model. If I were in the market for a small new sports car, I'd certainly look closer at one.

[Looneybomber]

Bubba, I think you make a good point. The s2000 had power everything, leather, HIDs and a more sophisticated engine. It MSRP'd around 33-34k at the end of its run as a vert, which always costs more than a coupe. An equivalently equipped BRZ is about 28k. As a vert, it'd be 2-3k more? At 30k you have a 370z with ~500lbs more and ~130hp more.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Nissan models always seem to inflate in price at the end of their life. The 300zx got super expensive and so did the 240. That's why they weren't selling many at the end.
I remember S13s being advertised for something like 14-16k new.

[Hijacker]

The economy was stronger in '98, so it's kind of hard to really make that correlation based on inflation comparisons. Also, as James mentioned, they got stupid expensive. To the point that it impacted sales horrifically. New Z32s at the end of their cycle were near $45k if I remember correctly.

But here's one thing the article didn't touch on with comparing the two cars. The Juke has had issues with the SCCA in the past due to its high center of gravity. Makes it more likely to roll over mid-turn. So if I were offered an adjusted for inflation, brand new S14 or a the Juke Nismo, I'd probably still spring for the S14 if money wasn't tight. The car just feels better all around. Torry should really chime in on his feelings about the comparison.

[Bubba1]

Nissan models always seem to inflate in price at the end of their life. The 300zx got super expensive and so did the 240. That's why they weren't selling many at the end.
I remember S13s being advertised for something like 14-16k new.

That's right. I paid just $15K for my loaded (everything except a sun-roof) S13 SE new in '89, which was about mid range for it's competition.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The Juke is a pefect demonstration of what's wrong with modern automakers: the confusion of Marketing vs Purpose. It's what killed GM, it's what killed Nissan, and it's what keeps people buying Camries and Highlanders.

Your marketing people can identify a "segment" and you can market a car as fitting that "segment" but at the end of the day the car is what it is, not what you tell people you want it to be.

Rear wheel drive and low COG are physics, not marketing. They cannot be replaced with adverbs imagined by highly-paid marketing people, adventurous styling, "forward-thinking" or any of a hundred billion other corporate buzzwords.

If, like Toyota, Nissan can become experts at convincing their buyers their products are something they're not, they will be looking at business success.

None of that will lead to product success.

So, in summary: I don't give a s***.

[float_6969]

So, in summary: I don't give a s***.

I'd still buy an S14. And as others have said, that's not a fair price comparison either.

[lne937s]

Although this is probably not the place to talk about business, there is something else to keep in mind about 1998. Nissan had been losing money hand over fist for a decade and was deeply in debt, essentially bankrupt, despite a strong global economy. The increase in the price was due to Nissan losing money on the 240SX and an attempt to reduce the losses. In the end, they couldn't figure out a way to sell it profitably here and pulled it from the market.
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMEN ... 001_03.pdf

However, in 1999 Nissan got a Japanese government-backed loan, a cash infusion from Renault, new management, unprecedented layoffs... now they are profitable, sell twice as many vehicles and have costs under control. Given the current situation, Nissan can make vehicles profitably and has a hole in its product portfolio, so I think they can figure it out. If they can come up with a platform to put it on, I figure $25-32k makes sense: it would price the car between the Juke and Z, would put it on par with the Toyobaru twins and soon-to-be-discontinued Altima coupe, etc. To make it profitable, however, some people are going to need to pony up for the more expensive trim levels.


But what I would really like to see is a stripper version closer to $20k:
- No back seat
- No leather
- No carpet or padding anywhere that I would not bang into in a crash
- No arm rests
- E-coat or black only- offer wrap options (they already offer partial wraps on the NV)
- No radio, infotainment, etc.- just have 12 volt lines running through the cabin to plug into and a place on the dash to put a tablet holder
- Steel wheels
- Manual only

Then you make the business case by offering a wide range of accessories (which tend to be high-margin). Start with something similar to the JDM NISMO catalog and then go well beyond that. The manual will automatically limit the potential buyers and increase the potential for customization. And this would provide a great foundation for a custom/race car-- not making people pay for things they would take off or be replacing anyway.