Auto-X newb....

[elwesso]

Well this summer im planning on attending a few auto-X's, and hopefully i can do at least one in may before our big indy meet, asssuming i get seleced

I dont really care about the times and stuff, i just want to make my driving better by being able to practice in a safe environment. Plus, my car isnt a racecar!

I guess i just need to know where to start... Ive read the sticky, and from what it seems i just need to sign up for an event and probably buy a helmet. Probably would be a good investment, regardless, since I go go-karting and such...

are there any good resources that I can read about driving... Id like to at least read up on a few things before I go out and try one 9of these things

[Nismo_Freak]

Reading up on driving won't do much good honestly. You need hands on from people on how to attack various corners and learning how to control the car comes with building a reaction as you won't have much time to think on an auto-x track.

In short, just show up and drive, listen to others and adapt.

I'd invest in a M cert helmet for Auto-X, they are cheaper and easier to see out of compared to SA2005's for the most part.

[elwesso]

I was referring to basic concepts, like how its best to take corners, and stuff, sort of "driving fast for idiots"...

[nismofly]

going faster by the skip barber staff

dont hit the cones

[corn322]

Don't concentrate so much on being fast, concentrate on doing everything smooth.

[Skipper5]

looking ahead and planning your line will do wonders. you don't want to react, you want to act.

[onosqv]

My best advice would be to seek out the veterans - you can easily spot these guys... find one you like the driving style of or has a similar car. Ask him if he would drive your car one lap and possibly sit in your car while you drive a couple laps. A couple different vets would help too, each person has their own way and you can figure out which way helps the most.

Seeing how someone else drives your car in your car helps out TREMENDOUSLY!

Show up early, take a course walk.. hit up some vets and ask to walk with them and tell them that you are a newb - try to memorize the course as you walk through it so that you don't get suprised when you are driving thru it later.

Of course, looking ahead is important, but it's probably going to take you a while to consistently do it and to look at the right cones. I usually ask the faster guys which cones they are looking at when they are at X position to verify/confirm.

As for other settings, just pump up your tire pressure some so you don't rollover and destroy your sidewalls, but don't worry about fine tuning it until after a few events - that way you will know that the driver is improving and not the settings...

If you can fork it out, I would highly recommend an autox school. Basically same as I suggested above, but there are 3 or so instructors, and you basically get an instructor for a good amount of the day, go in different ride-a-longs, course breakdowns, all the good stuff. A lot of the things are "common sense", but it's those things that most ppl forget to do, and it helps a lot when there is someone there to reinforce that knowledge with you... that and the mentality of "i just paid 200 for this course, i'm gonna improve dammit".

Last but not least, show up early, eat and drink plenty of fluids throughout the day, and HAVE FUN!

[Bubba1]

going faster by the skip barber staff

Yep, Going Faster by Skip Barber. Good choice

[Red coupe]

books can only say so much but the standared answere Ive seen to this question is "Secrets of Solo racing" semi basic imo but good none the less. Its also pretty cheap and not a bad read.http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...=UTF8

You autoXing the Q? hehe try to get some video, Id love to see that thing try to get around a set of cones....not to discorage or put down the car, but it gets tight, and the featherweights always seem to dominate hp.But what good is winning with out the fun! the unexpected cars are always the most entertaining, good luck

[zukitek]

show up at an autox and watch the guy who get FTD and youll probably find the guy to speak to ,but seat time is the only school i go by .Its all about seat time .....R- Compound tires are a must ...unless of course youre Kimi Reikenon then you might can win on street tires.

Ricky

[elwesso]

What are some good R compound tires??

I really am not about winning, i just want to have a few upsets... Just like to beat the crap out of my Q... I also believe that for a car like this, if you cant reproduce results on the street, its not worth it... That being siad, im going to try and use street tires whenever possible.

[onosqv]

Another point-of-view - don't even worry about super dooper tires, go whatever you have rite now!

I took the Sentra w/ mismatched all seasons (kumho asx in front, potenza & dunlop all seasons in the rear) to autox last weekend on Sunday (went w/ the 240 on that same Saturday).

I was able to find the tire limit of the Sentra REALLLL FAST. What also happened was that I could also see exactly where I was making mistakes and can see where I can improve.

I actually found out, by letting a seasoned autoxer roll the sentra - I still have at least another 2 seconds to improve on the Sentra from just the driver... in the 240, although I was 2 seconds faster than the Sentra, I have another 5 seconds to improve on the 240 w/ all the mods... so it's all in how you look @ it.

[elwesso]

Thanks for the suggestion... Right now i got winter tires, so i wont be auto-Xing in those bad boys!

[Mark86T]

Well keep in mind that with the weight of your Q you will be totally punishing your street tires. I autocrossed my Q a while back but I ran on my Z's Yokohama AO32Rs. Made a huge difference - as R compound tires do.

While driving don't look at the corner you are in, look ahead for the next set of corners. Be as smooth as possible. Slow in, fast out of corners. Last thing you want to do is enter a corner too hot with the Q. All that weight will make it push. I manually shifted my Q, which helped slow it down into corners & got it out of corners faster. I only needed 1st & 2nd gears.

I hope this helps some. I autocross my Z & take it to track days. My Q was a blast to autocross. People were in awe of how well the Q did for it's size & weight. Most of all have fun!

[crackler]

One word on R comp tires; from what I have heard the hide alot of mistakes. I don't know first hand because I've never ran on R-comps, but I know they will take more slip angle than a street tire will.The evolution autoX school recomends going to the school on street tires. They may be faster, but they will hide your mistakes and we all know how hard it is to break a bad habbit.

[Skipper5]

^^^

i think some of the reason they cover mistakes is because they raise the traction limit over street tires for a given instance. (duh) So, if you go around a specific turn on street tires and brake too late and end up pushing wide through the corner it looks as if you've made a mistake. take the same corner on r-comps at the same entry speed and braking point and you will be able to hold a tighter line and not push wide on exit thanks to the increased tractive force. hence it covers a mistake.

[crackler]

Pretty much

[Cholos_D]

I don't understand how tires cover mistakes. How can holding a tighter line in better tires cover mistakes. That would be like saying that the horsepower benefit of an exhaust covers up early braking and uses the extra horsepower to pull you out of the turns. Modifications just raise the limits of the car. If you put R tires on and don't go any faster, then it is the driver's mistakes slowing the car.

Where mistakes like late braking show up on tires is how long they last. Instead of covering up mistakes, R rated tires will show you your mistakes first because they will wear very fast and uneven if they are abused. If I were to lock up my Potenza S-02's every turn, they would be worn super fast because thier treadwear is soft at 140. Hard compound street tires will take alot more abuse because they don't wear very fast. If you lock up the fronts on street tires they just slide. This is just my opinion, I'm sure there are flaws in my rationale.

[onosqv]

I don't understand how tires cover mistakes. How can holding a tighter line in better tires cover mistakes.

Because every single autox and road racing veteran I've ever talked with has told me that... hee hee.

I believe the idea is that having r-compounds will allow you to not be as careful or refined when taking a line.

Let's say you take a line wrong (i.e. too fast and too jerky). In a street tire, that may cause you to slide a little and possibly spin out. In an r-compound, that "mistake" is absorbed by the extra stickiness of the tire; however, since it wasn't an optimal line, you are still losing tenths of a second - this all adds up and you won't be able to as easily figure out where you messed up. In effect, r-compounds "cover up" your mistakes, but you are still going slower than you could w/ r-compounds... it's all relative.

By having street tires, you can easily find out where you messed up on a course. Having R-compounds, it is much harder to determine where it is you screwed up.

Uneven wear on a tire is all relative depending on car setup & driving style - even tire wear doesn't mean better driver...

For me personally, I like driving basically the same exact setup at the course as I drive daily (for the most part). Really helps me get a better feel for my exact setup during sprited runs... or just driving around in general.

Hope that makes some sense.

[crackler]

Hard compound street tires will take alot more abuse because they don't wear very fast. If you lock up the fronts on street tires they just slide. This is just my opinion, I'm sure there are flaws in my rationale.

FYI: It took me about 6 autoX to totaly burn up a set of 400+ treadware tiresPlus everything brokeAs240sx said.

[nismofly]

the only thing to worry about is how street tires handle the punishment

near r-comp tires, like the falken rt615 and hankook rs2, make great auto-x and track day tires because they wont be dangerous in those conditions, but at the same time still have lower enough grip than r-comps to help you learn better

and yes, mods on a car do prevent you from becoming a better driver...if you look at any good driver, they started off in a car that made so little power, they had to become better drivers to overcome the power disadvantage

thats why road racing series like spec miata are so close, because the cars are equal for the most part, and driver skill is the big difference

these drivers, once they fine tune their skills in a low hp "momentum" race class, move up to higher power classes, and the difference in skill then shows between these drivers and drivers who started in the higher series, the higher skill drivers will be able to drive the cars to the full potential, whereas the ones without as much skill will be trying to use the car to make up for their lack of skill, but the better drivers will be able to push at a higher level, even though the not-so-good drivers can use the car to make up for more and more of their mistakes

[Cholos_D]

So we're all agreeing that modifications in general can 'cover up' mistakes...this really does make sense to me now. I think seat time is the best performance modification anyone can make... I didn't want to step on anyones toes, just offer my opinion. I'm still gonna get the R-rated Sumitomos though, but that's because I'm getting new rims and need new tires anyways

[crackler]

I think seat time is the best performance modification anyone can make... I

+1 for EVO school.http://autocross.server269.com.../news/

[ccasey645]

I was referring to basic concepts, like how its best to take corners, and stuff, sort of "driving fast for idiots"...

Go buy Grand Turismo 4. In the game there are driving schools you need for various licences that let you into bigger race. These schools let you practice taking corners, shows you lines of when to apex, how much to be on the trottle, and how to link corners like s turns so not to come up short using various cars. Sounds silly and you can make fun of me but Ive won a couple races based on some of this experience! It is alot cheaper than goin though tires at a real driving school!

[onosqv]

Go buy Grand Turismo 4. In the game there are driving schools you need for various licences that let you into bigger race. These schools let you practice taking corners, shows you lines of when to apex, how much to be on the trottle, and how to link corners like s turns so not to come up short using various cars. Sounds silly and you can make fun of me but Ive won a couple races based on some of this experience! It is alot cheaper than goin though tires at a real driving school!

Yea, I'm gonna make fun of you...

Didn't you watch the Top Gear episode where they actually tried to test GT4 preparation w/ preparing for the actual course? Yea... doesn't work.

Won a couple races? what kind? timed? autox, road course? As good as GT4 is, it doesn't simulate reality that well.

[Red coupe]

Saying that it wont prepare you to run the track at the same speed as was simulated is not the same as saying it wont show you some of the fundamental points of driving...He didn't say only training with GT4 made him the best driver, he merely brought it up as an alternative to reading theory

I agree with him, its not gonna train you to be a pro racer, but its a simulator and it will help show you the basics. I think it would be fair to say it could be as useful as reading a book on driving.

I don't think any one is trying to say that any book/movie/game will make you a great driver, but it doesn't mean they cant help.

How is this for a metaphor: I bet if Jermy had never seen laguna before it would had helped him get up to speed much more quickly...

dont hit the cones

hit the cones, just not hard enough to knock them out of their box

[ccasey645]

Yea Im sorry i didnt try and imply that it would make you that much better, just lets me know where to hit corners at (apex's) and how to take corners to link them. I took a state sponsored class for my motorcycle endorsement that was requred for anyone under 21 in my state and THAT made me good at looking though corners, ect that can be translated to cars. Soo i guess real world experience or classes are the best, but the game did give me an idea of what to do so I was well prepared. Also the game showed me why not to road race with a 2 way lsd if anything go get a tire sponser and find a parking lot