Hey, this is my first post to this forum, I need some advice about the pros and cons of an automatic vs a manual running 500+hp. It's all still a project and all the help I can get would be much appreciated.
Hey Z fans: I need some advice about the pros and cons of an automatic vs a manual running 500+hp. I know this isn't a forum but some detailed responses would be much appreciated.
My project includes an engine supposedly running 500hp (TT) that was pulled from a wrecked 5 speed manual car, paired up with an automatic twin turbo that blew its motor. Still has the auto trans in it. The ECU for the other motor is a 5speed of course, so my first thoughts were to do a transmission conversion.
first off heres what iv'e got on the engine..
The ECU says TT/5 speed/615/93 octane/single/14 degrees bdtc
What it looks like happened is the guy has some nice GT2530 turbos, 615 injectors and I have no idea what the inside has done to it. When the car got wrecked it toasted the wiring harness and that has been replaced. It looks like he didn't go too far into extra mods; no down pipes (has the stock(?) 5 bolt deals). The engine has 2 weeks of use on the build before the crash, so it's new and broke in. If i can get a remap on just the 5 speed part and change it to an automatic with no problems, i would love to go that direction.
It's an auto and its already hooked up and all. I've heard a lot about trans conversions not being all that difficult but with 500hp, shifting is work with performance clutches (more money there and in a conversion too), and I want it to be easy and fun to drive. I love acceleration but I don't care that much about the advantages a manual has when it comes to racing. Would probably upgrade the automatic transmission.
I was really wondering if i can still have fun with top end highway pulls with an automatic transmission.
Was thinking about the following mods; Performance SMICs, down pipes.
Idk what intercooler he was using or what mods are affected by the ecu. I'm assuming you can get a lot more out of dyno tuning and all the mods are affected, such as intercooler setup, downpipes? And i'm guessing a remap is a lot simpler but less in terms of the max horsepower you can get out of everything.
If I should get it dyno tuned, i want to add a more significant amount of horsepower without modifying the internals. Dyno tune or just remap? I have no idea what the prices are between the two. If dyno tuning is just as expensive, i want to add a bunch more mods without getting into the internals or creating problems like detonation, etc.
Auto matic or manual? 500 or 600hp?
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DCaff300ZX
- Posts: 4202
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:18 am
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1993 CRP TT- Modified - Location: Tacoma, Washington
Re: Auto matic or manual? 500 or 600hp?
Welcome to Nico!
A LOT of stuff to go through here, I'll start off basic and try to answer as much as possible given the depth of your scenario.
First off, from reading this I'll say the FIRST thing you need to decide and do is upgrade your brakes, the 1990 models have a smaller 27MM caliper and rotor setup that MUST be replaced if not already. In addition to that upgraded pads at MINIMUM so that you do not repeat the PO performance of piling up his 500HP Z within a week of getting the engine built. I wish I had a buck for every time this has happened, I'd have a stable of Z's and more by now.
The Akebono setup is a very popular and well-priced rotor/caliper kit that performs well in the range you are talking about, and they are available at most Z32 vendors. I myself will be getting them soon over my GTR calipers and upgraded rotors.
Moving to your questions, first off the Nissan autotrans in it's stock form is not the most reliable unit especially when older, and used in a performance manner. You can get an upgrade drag racing style setup that works well which is fairly pricey but not horrible, probably the best bet for your application should you prefer that method.
BUT, an AT Z32 is also worth about $1,500-2,000 less than a MT Z32 so keep that in mind that with a modified car plus AT, that you may be decreasing your car's future value as you spend that money. Yeah, we are all wasting money from a value standpoint with our modifications, but no reason piling on so most guys swap to the MT which isn't too bad for cost, and adds value for the money you spend.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the AT ECU will work for a MT car, but not vice versa. I assume your modified ECU is for the MT car and would not work should you go AT, so that would be a factor in that decision as well as I'm not sure that the trans tuning is something that can be addressed in a factory ECU. Surely cheaper and easier to just source the correct ECU.
Next up would be your comment about upgraded clutches, and also upgraded engine internals and such. You should be aware that the VG30DETT engine and it's components are all generally good to the 600HP range so modifying engine internals is really only best for extended applications, or peace of mind for those with large wallets/bank accounts or who intend to push the car hard and often. Spend your money on mechanical upgrades such as with the clutch hardware and linkage and you will have a bulletproof manual transmission for only a small price compared to AT upgrading.
My own 500HP-capable setup is running on a upgraded organic clutch and upgraded pressure plate, cost me about $250 for those and another $100+/- for upgraded shift lever and pivot and it feels better than any clutch I ever had, grabs like crazy when needed but feels super-solid stock otherwise.
Next you talk about things you may want to get, and DP's and would be one of those items to get as well as getting it all dyno-tuned when done- the only way to get everything dialed in. You may also have to look at the exhaust back end- mufflers and larger tips to make sure the exhaust can exit properly under heavier loads and keep the turbos spooling. I'd stay with the stock tubing diameter, as 3" only helps most at over 600HP and for max power, at a cost of noise and some driveability.
Be aware that changing anything else will affect emissions testing in the future.
Upgraded smics are good as well, but can get pricey if you go with ones that require larger intake piping and other pricey and difficult mods- I went with Z1's upgrded smics from a BF sale and am very happy with them as they fit well and are definitely larger and better flowing that stock- fine for the sub-600HP range both for performance and cost.
Hope that covers things for you, the only other thing I'd say is that for best results,m a known and proven Z guy would work best to get everything working right and have you happily driving your Z and not always messing with it. There will be plenty of messing arounf to do regardless, and with the factors you have involved with the two platforms that's why I advise you to at minimum have someone to advise you on many of the small things that WILL come up with a modified VG30DETT.
Good Luck!
A LOT of stuff to go through here, I'll start off basic and try to answer as much as possible given the depth of your scenario.
First off, from reading this I'll say the FIRST thing you need to decide and do is upgrade your brakes, the 1990 models have a smaller 27MM caliper and rotor setup that MUST be replaced if not already. In addition to that upgraded pads at MINIMUM so that you do not repeat the PO performance of piling up his 500HP Z within a week of getting the engine built. I wish I had a buck for every time this has happened, I'd have a stable of Z's and more by now.
The Akebono setup is a very popular and well-priced rotor/caliper kit that performs well in the range you are talking about, and they are available at most Z32 vendors. I myself will be getting them soon over my GTR calipers and upgraded rotors.
Moving to your questions, first off the Nissan autotrans in it's stock form is not the most reliable unit especially when older, and used in a performance manner. You can get an upgrade drag racing style setup that works well which is fairly pricey but not horrible, probably the best bet for your application should you prefer that method.
BUT, an AT Z32 is also worth about $1,500-2,000 less than a MT Z32 so keep that in mind that with a modified car plus AT, that you may be decreasing your car's future value as you spend that money. Yeah, we are all wasting money from a value standpoint with our modifications, but no reason piling on so most guys swap to the MT which isn't too bad for cost, and adds value for the money you spend.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the AT ECU will work for a MT car, but not vice versa. I assume your modified ECU is for the MT car and would not work should you go AT, so that would be a factor in that decision as well as I'm not sure that the trans tuning is something that can be addressed in a factory ECU. Surely cheaper and easier to just source the correct ECU.
Next up would be your comment about upgraded clutches, and also upgraded engine internals and such. You should be aware that the VG30DETT engine and it's components are all generally good to the 600HP range so modifying engine internals is really only best for extended applications, or peace of mind for those with large wallets/bank accounts or who intend to push the car hard and often. Spend your money on mechanical upgrades such as with the clutch hardware and linkage and you will have a bulletproof manual transmission for only a small price compared to AT upgrading.
My own 500HP-capable setup is running on a upgraded organic clutch and upgraded pressure plate, cost me about $250 for those and another $100+/- for upgraded shift lever and pivot and it feels better than any clutch I ever had, grabs like crazy when needed but feels super-solid stock otherwise.
Next you talk about things you may want to get, and DP's and would be one of those items to get as well as getting it all dyno-tuned when done- the only way to get everything dialed in. You may also have to look at the exhaust back end- mufflers and larger tips to make sure the exhaust can exit properly under heavier loads and keep the turbos spooling. I'd stay with the stock tubing diameter, as 3" only helps most at over 600HP and for max power, at a cost of noise and some driveability.
Be aware that changing anything else will affect emissions testing in the future.
Upgraded smics are good as well, but can get pricey if you go with ones that require larger intake piping and other pricey and difficult mods- I went with Z1's upgrded smics from a BF sale and am very happy with them as they fit well and are definitely larger and better flowing that stock- fine for the sub-600HP range both for performance and cost.
Hope that covers things for you, the only other thing I'd say is that for best results,m a known and proven Z guy would work best to get everything working right and have you happily driving your Z and not always messing with it. There will be plenty of messing arounf to do regardless, and with the factors you have involved with the two platforms that's why I advise you to at minimum have someone to advise you on many of the small things that WILL come up with a modified VG30DETT.
Good Luck!
Re: Auto matic or manual? 500 or 600hp?
Your wording was a little confusing how you repeated what you said over and over, but if i understand you right, you have an automatic twin turbo with a blown engine or whatever and hes got a built manual twin turbo in a wrecked car.. Just to clarify a few things.. You said stock exhaust, 5 bolt deal, thats wrong, 2530's use a 5 bolt down pipe, and stock is a 4 bolt down pipe, so you need that, maybe after the down pipes it's the stock exhaust but you need those.
Next you need the manual transmission, now I'm not saying this because I think every car should have a manual transmission, but because as dcaff said, you can use an auto ecu on a manual car, but you can't use a manual ecu on an auto car. Well if he has those bigger turbos and really has 615cc injectors then he needs to have a tuned ecu to run that beast, so you would need his tuned ecu to use to run the engine, and therefor wouldn't be able to use your auto tyranny with that ecu :/
Now if he is still on a stock tune, thats a whole other situation indicating that he half assed his build and who knows where else he cut corners and that engine probably wouldn't last to long..
Now I'm not trying to be the sore loser here but one other thing to be cautious of is how he wrecked it, if it was just a very unfortunate accident, or if he was pushing it and lost control, i say this because 2 weeks may not be enough time to break in an engine depending on how much it was driven, if it only has a few hundred miles on the build and he was already pushing the engine hard, id just be weary of that, cuz if he didn't break in the engine properly your asking for future problems.. But it's very likely he did everything right and just suffered a horrible loss being in that wreck, might be a great deal!
Also from what I've read, the manual trannys are way more reliable pushing high hp, and way easier to upgrade/repair
Next you need the manual transmission, now I'm not saying this because I think every car should have a manual transmission, but because as dcaff said, you can use an auto ecu on a manual car, but you can't use a manual ecu on an auto car. Well if he has those bigger turbos and really has 615cc injectors then he needs to have a tuned ecu to run that beast, so you would need his tuned ecu to use to run the engine, and therefor wouldn't be able to use your auto tyranny with that ecu :/
Now if he is still on a stock tune, thats a whole other situation indicating that he half assed his build and who knows where else he cut corners and that engine probably wouldn't last to long..
Now I'm not trying to be the sore loser here but one other thing to be cautious of is how he wrecked it, if it was just a very unfortunate accident, or if he was pushing it and lost control, i say this because 2 weeks may not be enough time to break in an engine depending on how much it was driven, if it only has a few hundred miles on the build and he was already pushing the engine hard, id just be weary of that, cuz if he didn't break in the engine properly your asking for future problems.. But it's very likely he did everything right and just suffered a horrible loss being in that wreck, might be a great deal!
Also from what I've read, the manual trannys are way more reliable pushing high hp, and way easier to upgrade/repair