Audio problems in a '90 240sx

Post by **Combatwombat** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

OK, first off, I'm new to the forum and sorry for the long post, just got my 240sx on Wendnesday. The stock audio system was, shall we say, less than adequate. Every time you touched the volume knob all of the speakers would sing a song reminicent of Rice Krispies (snap, crackle, and pop). Today, I tried to install an older pioneer deck to relieve myself of this minor problem. The deck works for sure, tested it today on the car battery. So, i popped off the dash, bought the wiring harness from Best Buy, And hooked everything up, should have been pretty straight forward, not so. Turn the ignition, nothing. Me and a friend of mine start looking at the wiring harness to figure out whats wrong. First off, there is no ground wire in the stock wiring harness. secondly, there is no constant power on, for the radio memory, tested with a voltmeter. We looked on the back of the stock deck, and determined that some of the wiring was wrong in the wiring harness, we re-wired the ground and the remote system on, since it is not needed. At this point, something even more interesting is happening. Not only will the deck not turn on, the power shoulder seat belts do not move unless the ignition is on, the dash clock lights up but no numbers are displayed until you close all the doors. Once the doors are closed, the clock resets and displays numbers. Finally, on the drive home after the long day, i had the deck face in, and it would blink with the "door open" led in the dash. I took the deck out and the dash led stopped blinking. I have checked all the fuses, and all the wiring i played with. I unplugged the car battery, let the car reset itself, and hooked it back up, still nothing. I am pretty much stumped at this point, any suggestions, help, a proper wiring diagram, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all.

Post by **MaineExport** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

Whoa!!!

That is frigged for sure. To start with, you definitely have some faulty wiring issues.

I am concerned about your thought process in assuming that the factory harness was wired wrong. How did you come to this conclusion? Was it tampered with? Did the stock radio get any power... did it make sounds like actual music... not just rice crispies?

You might have also erroneously assumed that you don't need the remote (power-on) switch connected. Most s13's and s14's have an "active speaker" system. There are amps that need to be turned on before you will hear anything.... without the remote line connected, you've got no amp power.

Your speaker crackling might not be solved by a replacement head unit.... it might be blown speakers. This is a fairly common ailment. Even though it only happened when you played with the volume control, it might be bad speakers too. Although, that crackling problem is usally indicative of a dirty volume knob (I know..... 'dirty knob'... very funny!).

The best soltion to your stereo problems is to start from scratch. Make new constant and ignition power lines from your fuse box. You already established a new ground lead. Install new speakers (doesn't have to be expensive... almost anything will be better than stock). And also install new speaker wires to all four corners. This will clean up and simplify the wiring mess you have, and also bypass the factory amps... which are HORRIBLE to say the least.

I would SERIOUSLY suggest having your interior electrical system inspected. Your problems seem to go beyond the scope of bad stereo wiring.

EDIT: all of the odd symptoms you describe seem to be related. The power source for your stereo (or perhaps the ground) seems to be related to the door open switch.... which also controls the shoulder belts). I think you should rewire your ground again.... perhaps to a bolt somewhere.

Post by **big jon's 240** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

I agree with maineimport. Fix your ground, there is plenty of metal under the dash to use for a ground, intsead of using an existing one. Also did you check your fuses? that could be another reason your not getting any juice.

Post by **MaineExport** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

I have to add, that I really wonder what you used for a ground. It sounds like you tapped into an existing ground line that is dependant on the door switch to complete the circuit. Try just using a bolt somewhere in the center console or dash area. And it would certainly be in your best interest to rewire the entire thing like I suggested previously. Just a thought.... hope it works, please keep us posted.

Post by **Combatwombat** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

I didnt rewire the stock harness, the Best Buy harness had the ground hooked up to nothing in the stock connector. we didnt mess with the stock one, only the best buy one. The system remote we played with was the one that is hooked up to the actual deck, again not on the stock wiring harness. I avoid playing with the stock anything, because i might go back to stock for some unforseen reason.

i will try the ground hooked up to the shifter mount/cover. looks lik pretty solid metal and its rusted, clean it off and its sure to be a good ground.

im gonna check some more fuses, for proper amperage, not necessarily just blown. i found the wiring diagrams online, so ill check that out as well.

Keep posting more ideas if you can, anything would help.

Post by **Lsnaple** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

you need to ground it.i had the exact same problem with my last cd player. i took the car up to circuit city (where i bought the cd player) and it took them awhile to figure it out, because i tried grounding it and it didnt work.cut a peice of the rubber off of the ground wire, connect a wire to that part, then try grounding it.thats how they got the last one to work.

its nice that my new clarion deck came with the ground wire all nice and ready to just.. well.. ground it.it came with the...whatchacallit? horseshoe type thing on it already.

EDIT: youve also got blown speakers.

Post by **Combatwombat** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

you had the same problem with the radio wiring, or the whole mess, including seatbelt motors and dash clock? if it were as simple as just grounding the radio that would be rediculously too simple. Please reply with the answer, it would be of great help.

Post by **Lsnaple** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

im not sure about the seatbelt, but the clock would go out all the time.after we got the cd player fixed, it worked.thats why i suppose its your problem. the rest, i dunno if that happened with me cause its been over 1 1/2 years.

EDIT: both red/black wires are constant power. i just checked them myself, while putting my cd player in. both solid blues come on when the key is in at least the ACC position.

Post by **shinobi** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

okay i dunno why you rewired your harness and whatever, but i had a similar problem with my stereo wiring. put everything back to the way you found it. connect all corresponding colors from the aftermarket deck to the harness. yes the ground wires do not connect, but take the ground wire from your aftermarket deck and connect it to the frame somewhere, for me i used one of the screws underneath the center console. once that's connected your stereo should be able to turn on. although your speakers wont work. this is where i had the problem. on your aftermarket harness from bestbuy there should be blue/white wire that youre not connecting, connect this to the blue/white wire on your aftermarket deck. then everything should be fine. the reason for this is because the stock speakers have a built in amp. so the blue/white wire is the remote wire for this, therefore if its not hooked up, it wont work! genius!. if you have any other questions feel free to ask. my stereo works splendidly.

Post by **bruinbear714** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

I would remove the headunit and see if your car works properly WITHOUT ANY radio attached to the car. Start from there.

After you get the car working ok and fix the wiring problems, if any, then add your headunit. Since your the connector doesn't have a ground, you will have to manually attach a wire to ground on the car. Don't attach it to another wire that you think is ground. Attach it directly to the frame of the car, or to a metal bracket going to the frame of the car.

When I installed my JVC headunit, the ground wire terminated at the plug and wasn't connected to anything, so I had to put a connector on the end and bolt it to a metal bracket.

Post by **Bay Dog** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

Going alongside with Bruinbear, you are best to avoid using the factory wiring anyway. The best way to get the quality sound you want is to rewire your speakers off your headunit with a good gauge wire. The factory wire is so thin and restrictive. Plus it makes it easier to add on. You should wire your new head unit to the fuse box for power then wire your speakers separate. The only 'factory wire' you should consider using is the one to your power antenna if you have one.

Good luck!

Post by **KarmaPolice** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

I'm having the same exact problem. I think its definately a ground problem but im also gonna replace the relay under the hood. The other thing I get is I'll try to turn the stereo on and get lights on the stereo and a click then off. Just keeps repeating. Keep me notified of your discoveries and I'll do the same. Oh yeah my stereo was workin good then all this just happened.

Post by **Queamore** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

Ok lets go down the list of wires first though cut the factory harness and save your self alot of time just leave enough wire on the plug just in case you want to go back. to find what wires are what you can get a battery tester with different color lights and tells you how much power is being applied it's about 10 bucks it's a very invaluable tool and very easy to use.1. Ground Create your own get one good black wire and bolt it down to something metal.2. batt. usually red, find the wire that has power when the car is not on. this will be to keep the memory.3.ACC. orange or yellow. Find the wire that supplies power when the car is on this will turn the radio on. 4.remote usually blue. This wire is used only to turn things on not to power them this goes to things like the power antena's amps eq's etc.5. lighting. Some radios will have this wire to turn on the lights of the radio when you turn on the head lights so find the wire that supplies power when you turn on the lights.The rest should be speakers. before you hook up the speakers though and put everything back in, plug the radio in and make sure everything works. make sure you also tape any wires that your not using but you should use them all. if this does not work then the radio has a short in it and should not be installed.

Post by **Lsnaple** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

if you want, tomorrow ill check every wire and tell you to which ones they go to. sorry if that sounds confusing. what i mean is that i will tell you what colors of the factory harness go to what function on your aftermarket. mine works great so if what i dont post doesnt help you, then you have something else other than your wiring wrong.

just tell me if you want this, and ill do it but not until tomorrow cause ive got to pick it up from getting a new clutch, find another job, and hopefully get my exhaust on.

Post by **R240NA** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

Bay Dog wrote:Going alongside with Bruinbear, you are best to avoid using the factory wiring anyway. The best way to get the quality sound you want is to rewire your speakers off your headunit with a good gauge wire. The factory wire is so thin and restrictive. Plus it makes it easier to add on. You should wire your new head unit to the fuse box for power then wire your speakers separate. The only 'factory wire' you should consider using is the one to your power antenna if you have one.

Good luck!

Interesting. Use LARGER speaker wires, thus giving even more resistance? Cool. Larger wire can handle more amperage, but at the risk of providing even higher resistance, unless it's solid core. That Pioneer deck probably is straining to even put out 4 watts per channel, I'd avoid making it harder on it. The OE wiring is fine, use it.

Post by **KarmaPolice** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

This should help whit what wires are what.http://www.bagotronix.com/nissan_240sx_stereo.pdf

Post by **SR20DET240** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

Hey guys, just found this car stereo board way down at the bottom.

I just removed an Alpine from my friend's 240. The previous owner installed it and it was a hack job. He cut off the factory Nissan harness plug and wired the Alpine harness right into the Nissan stereo harness with electrical tape....ugh.

He did two things right though:

1. Wired a ground wire to the bolt for the shifter cover. (In car audio, it is best to keep the ground as short as possible.)

2. Wired the constant hot directly to the battery. This is cool because Alpines are very powerful decks and need a good power supply (when you are dealing with the 78xx models that have the internal amp). A buddy of mine used an adapter and wired it into the factory harness on his Honda. The deck starts to dim and flash when he turns it up because it doesn't get enough juice. So wiring it directly to the battery with a good gauge wire is a good idea.

So make sure youve got a good ground and a good hot. Also verify the wiring with the diagram that Karma provided above. I used the exact same one on my friends 240.

In my experiences, those wiring adapters (from best buy or wherever) that come with the adapter have not been 100% correct on their wiring diagrams believe it or not. Never hurts to double check.

I hope you didnt fry your deck. Good luck man!

Post by **red240ne** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

This is why you just get Free Installation from Best Buy. They do it right and give you a guarantee.

Post by **SR20DET240** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

red240ne,

Quote »Today, I tried to install an older pioneer deck to relieve myself of this minor problem.[/quote]

I doubt they would install his old pioneer for free.

I know you meant if you buy a new stereo, but just wanted to point that out.

Post by **Lsnaple** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

i bought mine online. none of the places around here carry clarion. i could have wasted $50 for a shop around here to put mine in, but why when i can do it just fine myself? it may not be the prettiest behind the deck, but thats it, you dont see behind the deck.

Post by **Simmsled** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

Remember that when you wire head-units directly to the battery, that you MUST put a fuse under the hood and close to the battery. If this is not done and any part of that wire gets exposed to any metal surface, then it could fuse to that surface, the insulation on that wire will start a fire, smoke up your car, and could damage or destroy whatever is around it.

ABOUT WIRES...

All audio cables act as complex passive filters with elements of capacitance, inductance & resistance. While they have observed sonic & electrical tendencies - cables are reactive (and can have a complimentary, neutral or derogatory effect in systems).

Inserting low quality cables will mask and veil sonic & visual details. Better cables are like cleaning a window or your glasses - you realize afterwards that images are clearer and sounds more precise.

Generally speaking, moving up in the cable level provides more conductor groups for lower electromagnetic effects, increased quality of insulation for less capacitive storage and increased conductor quality (for increased and more uniform velocity of propagation).

Cable is a component (not accessory)because your system won't function without it.

A short cable will have not just lower resistance but less reactance (inductive & capacitive) than longer cables of the same construction. Keep them short and at a standard length. Get cable long enough to access components & meet future placement needs

I like to use 14awg inwall speaker cable used in custom home installs for my speaker cable. It is usually shielded (will not pick up interference from other electrical systems in the car) and the insulation is thick so you don't have to worry about moisture or stripping away insulation in the install process.

Post by **KarmaPolice** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

WOW I have been educated!! Go Perdue!

Post by **Nebraska240sx** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

mine did that when I got it to, but I just replaced the deck and it was better, but I finally took a look at the speakers and realize they were blown to, so just replace them all.

Post by **SR20DET240** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

I thought the inline fuse was common knowledge. I guess we have to include every detail :pface

Anytime I do wiring under the hood, I run it away from heat sources and moving objects and always use wire loom to protect it and give it that "factory" look. Fuse is also a necessity when wiring to the battery.

Post by **Mark P.** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

1.NEVER assume anything it's the mother of all %$#@ ups.2. most nissan's ground through the antenna so find a diffrent ground.3. don't hook up both blue wires together as one, your battery will go dead. (if you want I can explain later)4. use the volt ohm meter to find all yourpower wires first. make sure none of the wires touch each other you can blow the fuse for the constant power. next find your speaker wires set the meter to the little horseshoe thing the vom should read 3.8 ohms or so. once you found them you can pop the speakers with a 9 volt battery. DO NOT USE THE BATTERY FIRST! if you cant find the speaker wires then you have a factory amp. you can use it or bypass it i would bypass it. but first put your car back the way it was and make sure that everything works the way it is suppose to. then start the install again. do not cut any of the factory wires.

Post by **KarmaPolice** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:37 pm

I FIXED MINE!!!! Call me stupid for not checking every fuse but. I decided to make one last check. I found the fuse entitled "room light" was blown. Needless to say one fuse later everything works again. Thanks to everyone for their help and imput.

Audio problems in a '90 240sx

Audio problems in a '90 240sx

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