Audio gurus, i need your opinion and help

[SketchyRollin564]

Ok so im sellling my drums for $740 (got a buyer already)New ka that i need (spun rod bearing) is $350, that leaves me 390, and front 5 lug hubs are $160, so that leaves me $230

With that money and a little bit of christmas money, im gonna be getting a nice head unit and 4 new 6.5" speakers, since im still rocking the oem tape deck, and all my paper oem speakers are blown, and only my back 2 work, so i will notice a HUGE sound difference

So Im looking around on Crutchfield, and im looking to spend no more than $150 total for my speakers,

I can get these polks, which run $100 a pair, and if you buy one pair you get the second pair free, so it only totals at $150

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1...tp=95

Most of the reviews on it are pretty good, and for $150 they seem to be a great deal. I think the grille is ugly as sin, but i can always just figure out a way to use the OEM grille

Then theres these kickers, which are $69.99 Each, which ends up totaling to $140 which is $10 cheaper

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_2...tp=95

Naturally i would think, ok obviously the set thats $100 a pair is gonna be better than the set thats $70 a pair, but i knew kicker was a good brand, so i decided to click, and the reviews were all really damn good, and unlike the bulks where everyones mostly happy, seems like EVERYONE is happy with their kicker speakers, stock or aftermarket reciever. The grille isnt my cup of tea, but its not TOO bad and i wouldnt mind rocking it

Anyways, which of the two do you think would be a better buy? Not gunna do subs or tweeters for a while, just a new head unit.

If anybody wants to show me some speakers in the same $150 price range that would be even better than the two i posted above, feel free to make suggestions, heres the link

http://www.crutchfield.com/g_5...tp=95

Then as far as the head unit, i wanted somethintg that looks good, and not tacky like a lot that i see, has to have a CD player, and has to be ipod adaptable, and i would prefer to be able to have it so i can controll the ipod fromt he head unit, and not just plug the ipod into the chord, and still have to brouse through the actual ipod scroll wheel to pick the song while im driving. The only thing im wondering is, if its direct ipod interface, where i can controll it from the head unit, will i still be able to put my ipod on shuffle, or will it just be tracks, artists, and playlists. Reason i ask is because the bmw i drive is like that, where you cant put it on shuffle.

Also, id prefer ones that are lit up red, since im doing my interior lights in red and amber. Other things, i really want one with an HD tuner since i listen to the radio alot, and id also love if i could hook the ipod up to the usb plug thing as opposed to the jack, that way i could charge it while listening to it. I also dont want to spend more than $150

This head unit seemed to catch my eye the most, and the price isnt bad at all, only $139.99

Alpine CDE-9874http://www.crutchfield.com/p_5...=5684

Its good looking, you get a lot for what your paying and it still seems to be quality, ipod interface, cd player, red backlights

Or for $10 more i could get the CDE-9884 which is $149.99http://www.crutchfield.com/p_5...=5684

Seems to be fancier, but i dont know too much about audio stuff, and i cant see any real benefits of this one that i would actually use. I did notice the face folds down to put the cd in. I would find that kind of annoying, but at the same time, it makes the face less cluttered, and you can tell in the picture it has more room and looks nicer

I like how the display will show you the ipod track and lets you controll it from there, but the other one lets you do that as well.

Theres also this Kenwood KDC-MP238 which is more budget friendly at $119.99

has the red lights that i like, but also blue around the volume controll and on the other side which adds a nice little contrast. Says it has a built in MOSFET 22 watt amplifier. Idk if the other alpines have that or somthing better, but from as far as i know, that sounds like a good thing to me.

Last but not least, theres this other kendwood KDC-MP338 which is $10 more again at $129.99http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1...=5684

I honestly cant really see any significant differences that i would benefit from, it just looks nicer.

Then theres this sony one i found that is pretty nice, i dont mind the blue lights. $129.99http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1...=5684

Reading the description, it seems really nice, and i also like how it has the built in ipod connection and no extra stuff needed, so i dont have to hook the ipod up through the auxilary jack, and i can charge the ipod at the same time

Heres the rest of em if you wanna look aroundhttp://www.crutchfield.com/g_3...=5684

Anyways, those are the items im looking at. there all in the same price area, but if i go with the cheaper ones i can probably end up buying it all myself without having to transfer the rest of the money tward my christmas money, which id love to get some tein tie rods, or a tint if i can

big thanks in advance for anyone who throws in their input, its helping me out a lot

Modified by SketchyRollin564 at 7:49 AM 11/27/2008
Modified by SketchyRollin564 at 7:54 AM 11/27/2008

[Broadfield]

I'm a little disappointed you didn't come to me 1st, but maybe you didn't search. As far as head units I would absolutely stick to the Alpine stuff. It's it going to come down to what features you want/need, but all Alpines are of the same quality no matter the model. You can check out my Alpine prices in my sig. As with any purchase I give you all the help/tech support you could ever want. I also have any of the accessories you would need.... wiring harness, speaker adapters etc.

Speakers:

I would stay away from the Kickers. I use to be a Kicker dealer for the longest time and never was impressed with their mid/high line-up. The Infinity's and Polks would be fine. I carry Boston Acoustic, Orion Cobalt and Concept that I can get you under the $150 mark. With Concept or Orion I can get you WAY under the $150 mark. The base model JL's would be over $150, as with all the other brands I carry. I would probably recommend the Boston's unless you are really wanting to save some money.

You can also give me a call if you want to talk about it to a live person!

[SketchyRollin564]

looks like you can give me the 9874 for $10 cheaper than crutchfield, and the 9884 for the same price

i guess now its up to shipping prices between you and crutchfield, but id rather buy from you as long as i get the instalation kit free like crutchfield does.

I guess the kenwood is out, but im still looking at the sony, unless i can get the alpine with HD tuner and the ipod hookup thing (not the jack, but the usb type thing that lets me charge it and see it on screen)

EDIT: ok i just looked at your link to the apline website at the two head units i was thinking of. Its pretty much just between those two now. You can get me the less expensive one for $20 less than the more expensive one.

That will give the me money to buy that thing that plugs in to the back of the HU and i can run it somewhere to plug my ipod in without a mess, and charge it at the same time, and see songs through the HU, which is what i want, but i also like how with the more expensive one, you can use the scroll wheel on the HU to navigate through the songs as opposed to just buttons

How cheap could you get me the 9884 for with the plug in thing that they were talking about on the alpine site?

If i cant get the alpine with that cheap, im considering the sony. Is that one bad? I like how it already comes with the HD tuner, cause i listen to the radio alot, and i prefer the better quality.

For the speakers, im a little suprised you say that lol, ive always heard great things about kickers, or maybe its just their subs that are good

anyways, i wanna look into the speakers your saying you could get me 4 of for under $150

How much under 150 could you get me Orion and Concept for?How much could you get me the boston acoustic for, and what model speaker so i can look at the specs of it

keep in mind, i want a speker that has good bass for a speaker (obviously its not gonna be like having a sub, but i want something decent), while still having good mids and highs that are really crisp and clear

Do you have AIM that i can talk to you on?

EDIT: another thing to keep in mind, as far as which speakers to go with. I like to listen to my music loud but i hate when its distorted and im a ***** about sound quality. I mostly listen to classic rock, chill stuff like 311, alternative rock, some crazy shiz every now and then, and a lot of rap

When i listen to rock i really like to have good mids and highs, nice and crisp, and i little bit of bass that i can can feel. As far as rap i like having it with a lot of bass that i can feel and hear, without it being distorted. I know im gonna need a sub for that, but for the mean time id like speakers that do an ok job at that

Modified by SketchyRollin564 at 10:40 AM 11/27/2008
Modified by SketchyRollin564 at 10:41 AM 11/27/2008

[Broadfield]

My prices include shipping. My prices also include the iPod cable. I can get you the Concepts or Orions for about $100 shipped. The Bostons would be $140 shipped...... Crutchfield sells the same ones for $119/pr.

http://mobile.bostonacoustics....id=84

Give me a call at the # in my sig if you want to discuss anything in detail.

Toby

[SketchyRollin564]

If the bostons are way better than the polks, then ill do em for $140, but isnt 35 watts rms kinda low?

also, any links to the other two speakers? i wanna look at those too

And if you say the HU comes with the adaptor and thats the price with shipping, then you got yourself a buyer for the 9884

Ill probably be buying the speakers from you too, i just wanna explore the differnet options for the speakers you have

[Broadfield]

Sorry man, I have been swamped at work and working late....... remote start season is in high gear. I will post up some links after I get home from work tonight.

Thanks,

Toby

[Edub1]

Broadfield what is your opinion of the Boston's Vs Polk in a 6.5" component? I'm powering with a 60W RMS Kenwood amp.

Also, I'm looking at in dash DVD players for my Ridgeline. I don't care about navigation. I'm looking for the best setreo head unit - the screen is just for bling factor. Clarion has a new one out that looks like a winner. IIRC it's $1000 but I can get it for $600 online.

Sorry for the thread jack.

[SketchyRollin564]

Well anyways, im selling the drums for $100 less than i thought i was, so im gonna have to go with the cheaper speakers but i still want the 9884 head unit, just because lol

are the orions and the concepts better than the polks and kickers i posted up earlyer? Im probably going with those since there a good price, but id still like to take a look at em

[Edub1]

Sketchy, if you are not using an amp and don't have a subwoofer you want to be careful to select preakers that suit this purpose. Some websites like CicuitCity have customer ratings for these - I would read some of those. Better yet, get out and listen to them. IIRC the Polks sound good with no amp and produce good bass where as the Bostons don't make much bass.

And look at http://www.onlincarstereo.com

[Broadfield]

Broadfield what is your opinion of the Boston's Vs Polk in a 6.5" component? I'm powering with a 60W RMS Kenwood amp.

Also, I'm looking at in dash DVD players for my Ridgeline. I don't care about navigation. I'm looking for the best setreo head unit - the screen is just for bling factor. Clarion has a new one out that looks like a winner. IIRC it's $1000 but I can get it for $600 online.

Sorry for the thread jack.

Depends on which Bostons you are talking about. Now that I am a Hybrid Audio dealer, I would never sell another set of higher end Boston components again...... or any other brand for that matter. Unless the customer has to buy brand specific, I will always recommend the Hybrid. For example, the Boston Pro 6's retail for $599. The Hybrid Clarus 6's retail for $469. The Clarus blow away the Pro's in every single category except mounting depth and diameter. And it use to be difficult for me to say that because I swore by the Boston Pro's or Z series.

I don't carry any super cheap double din screens, but I could do the Alpine W505 for $729 shipped...... which would be far superior to the Clarion.

[Broadfield]

Some websites like CicuitCity have customer ratings for these - I would read some of those.

Unfortunately, these ratings are generally useless. Since you have everyday "Joe" customers, who are not audio guru's, giving ratings on generally cheap speakers. What sounds good to them, will most likely not sound good to me. Trust me, I see it everyday in my show room with my own customers. They like a certain "cheap" speaker better than another because the tweeter is more bright. These are the same people that crank their treble all the way up no matter what speakers they have.

But like you said, going to a store and listening to them is the only way to fly. Besides, every one has their own opinion on what sounds "good".

[Broadfield]

Well anyways, im selling the drums for $100 less than i thought i was, so im gonna have to go with the cheaper speakers but i still want the 9884 head unit, just because lol

are the orions and the concepts better than the polks and kickers i posted up earlyer? Im probably going with those since there a good price, but id still like to take a look at em

Well, the Concepts will have a brighter sounding tweeter..... that's why a lot of my average customers like them. The Orions will have better mid-bass than the Concepts or Bostons. The Bostons will be a balance of both.

I would say the Kickers and Polks will be marginally better than the Concepts or Orions. However, they cost more..... so rightfully so. Also, I checked my sheet price again and I can do the Orions for $90 shipped, just to let you know.

Orion Cobalt:

http://www.orioncaraudio.com/P...D=562

Concept:

http://www.conceptbuy.com/12v/...id=60

So in conclusion, most of my customers that listen to all of the speakers I have to offer in this price range pick the Concepts.

[SketchyRollin564]

seems like the concepts can go really loud which is a plus, and i like how it has really bright and clear highs

the only thing i dont like is that the frequency starts at 70, and while the other ones are starting at between 50 and 60

since i like to have my mids and lows as well, i think the concepts are out, which narrows it down more. I can always turn the treble up, but when you turn the bass up on speakers that dont produce good bass, you just get straight up distortion

how much better would the polks or kickers be better than the concepts or orions? for $90 v/s $150 im really thinking about it since i really dont have the same money i thought i was getting

(i ended up getting $500 and this really nice shop jack that im either gonna end up using, or selling for some more money, and since $350 goes to the engine, that leaves me $150 to spend, and the alpine head unit im getting is $150 shipped, so the rest of the money has to come from me some other way, or through christmas, which means no tints for me)

Im looking at the orions and they seem nice, but they only go up to 85.2 db instead of 90+ like the others. And also what ive heard (idk too much about db readings), is that going up one number in decibals can be double as loud

The frequency only starts at 62, but thats not too bad, and its better than 70, and for $90 shipped i cant really complain

Im still looking at the polks and the kickers, but i could save $60 if i get the orions.

what im lost on is how your saying the polks and kickers are gonna sound better than the concepts and orions, but to stay away from the kickers

Im right now stuck between the Polks and the Orions

Obviously the Polks are gunna sound nicer, and go louder, and have better highs, mids, and possibly bass, but are they really worth the extra $60, or are the orions almost just as good?

As far as the Orions, i know they have good mid and bass, but heres my two questions on them

since it only goes up to 85.2 db, can they not go that loud without being distorted? and can they still produce good highs?

those are two big factors, as i love listening to my music loud, and i HATE distortion, and im a real ***** when it comes to the clarity of the music
Modified by SketchyRollin564 at 7:48 PM 11/30/2008

[Looneybomber]

seems like the concepts can go really loud which is a plus, and i like how it has really bright and clear highs

the only thing i dont like is that the frequency starts at 70, and while the other ones are starting at between 50 and 60

That number all depends on what output level (decibles) you want to start measuring at and also very vehicle/placement dependent. Bass is recreated because of the enclosure the speaker is in.

since i like to have my mids and lows as well, i think the concepts are out, which narrows it down more. I can always turn the treble up, but when you turn the bass up on speakers that dont produce good bass, you just get straight up distortion

Again, bass is created by how the backwave of the speaker is treated, whether completely absorbed or used with a helmholtz resonator (port or passive radiator), and how much air can be displaced by the speaker. The bigger around the cone is, and/or the farther the cone can linearly move, the more bass it will produce.

Im looking at the orions and they seem nice, but they only go up to 85.2 db instead of 90+ like the others. And also what ive heard (idk too much about db readings), is that going up one number in decibals can be double as loud

It just tells you it's sensitivity per unit of input power at a certain distance. Typically it's 1W at 1M away, but some will use 2.83v at 1M, which means 2W of power at a 4ohm load, vs 1W of power with an 8 ohm load. Also, I saw one manufacture spec their sensitivity with 1W at 0.5M! Which means it will show 6db more sensitive than what it really is.

Another thing to think about, speakers do not produce perfectly flat frequency responses. So one manufacture may use a speaker's peak as it's sensitivity making it seem like it performs very well, where-as another may take the average output given it's entire range of sound reproduction, which will then appear a bit lower in db's.

If all manufactures measured their speakers exactly the same, we could rely on their specs much more, but unfortunately they don't.

The frequency only starts at 62, but thats not too bad, and its better than 70, and for $90 shipped i cant really complain

As stated earlier, when it comes to those frequencies under 100hz, the enclosure, albiet a door, is the most important factor when trying to reproduce those frequencies. A well designed 6.5 sub and enclosure can easily outperform a 15 without a box. Next in line is time alignment, so that the bass waves don't cancel each other out.

Obviously the Polks are gunna sound nicer, and go louder, and have better highs, mids, and possibly bass, but are they really worth the extra $60, or are the orions almost just as good?

since it only goes up to 85.2 db, can they not go that loud without being distorted? and can they still produce good highs?

those are two big factors, as i love listening to my music loud, and i HATE distortion, and im a real ***** when it comes to the clarity of the music

Don't get too caught up in eliminating distortion. It is infact only a car system. Trying to overcome the pitfalls of a noisey car will consume a lot of cash and leave you even more frustrated. With that said, I have more money wrapped up in a single tweeter for my house system than I have money invested in my entire car system.

Good luck with your build.

[Edub1]

The way to get good clean loud sound is to use an amp with an RMS rating that matches your speakers. Underpowering is what causes distortion. If you are only driving from the head unit get low powered speakers that match.

[Looneybomber]

The way to get good clean loud sound is to use an amp with an RMS rating that matches your speakers. Underpowering is what causes distortion. If you are only driving from the head unit get low powered speakers that match.

While that is true, headunits suck at powering speakers and amps do an amazing job of "cleaning up" the sound, distortion is primarily produced by the speaker itself. So long as the amp is not clipping, or being over driven, one could use a 100w or 1000w amp and end up with the same results.

What causes distortion is a speaker moving non linearly. Distortion, no matter how clean the input signal, will always increase the louder you play, because the speaker's cone is now moving farther and farther. The better a speaker's "soft parts" (ie, surround and spider), the better it will perform.

For example, here are measurements of the subwoofer (15") I have with an amp powerful enough to melt the voice coils. Bottom line, the distortion is not coming from the amp. This can be bought for $270.00 (no box, just the driver)

And to give you an idea of what the SPL output was, outside, 2M away from the sub. Keep in mind, in a car, you could add upwards of 36db or so towards the bottom end.

Here is a TC-Sounds LMS-5400, 18", which went for around $1,000.00 and is argueably the cleanest (lowest distortion producing) subwoofer ever made.



And the distortion.

As you can see, the bigger around the driver is (15" vs 18") the less the cone has to move to produce the same amount of sound and thus less distortion is produced. Also, higher quality components will result in a lot less distortion. $270 driver vs. $1k driver.

Bottom line, amps do play a small roll, but the most significant factor is the speaker driver.

Modified by Looneybomber at 6:07 PM 12/3/2008

*edit* And for those of you who want to say the JL W7 line is the best, let's see what the 13W7 does for distortion...
Modified by Looneybomber at 6:10 PM 12/3/2008

[Edub1]

You are confusing distortion with over driving a speaker and I think you are talking about something that isn't relivent to what is being discussed.

"Distortion" otherwise known as "clipping" occurs when an amplifier is pushed beyond it's ability to produce the peak areas of the signal wave. When this happens the speaker basicaly just reproduces what it recieves and it is a matter of garbage in, garbage out.

99.9% of the time this is what people are hearing when they over drive their low power amplifiers found in head units or factory units.

What you are talking about is simply operating a speaker beyond it's physical limits. This is something else entierly. Most of the time, what happens in this situation is that the speaker produces good sound but begins to make a loud poping sound as the cone is over extruded.

But anyway, the guy asking these questions is driving the speakers with only a head unit so I doubt he is over driving the speaker.

[Edub1]

oops

[Looneybomber]

You are confusing distortion with over driving a speaker and I think you are talking about something that isn't relivent to what is being discussed.

Nope, it's totally relevent, because you said "under driving is what causes distortion" when in reality, it's non linearities in both the speaker's input signal and in the movement of the speaker's cone that causes distortion. So long as an amp is not clipping, the driver will always produce more and more distortion the harder it is pushed while within it's mechanical range. As shown in the graphs above, which a driver is operating within it's mechanical range, you can see the distortion climbs higher and higher the louder it's played. None of those three drivers were at all overdriven.

"Distortion" otherwise known as "clipping" occurs when an amplifier is pushed beyond it's ability to produce the peak areas of the signal wave. When this happens the speaker basicaly just reproduces what it recieves and it is a matter of garbage in, garbage out.

You're exactly right and I even said that in my post, "...distortion is primarily produced by the speaker itself. So long as the amp is not clipping, or being over driven, one could use a 100w or 1000w amp and end up with the same results." Which reinforces what you said about amp power with speaker capabilities. No sense buying a 1kw amp when the speaker cannot handle more than 100w.

I just don't want people to think an amp will solve all of their problems. It will help if the problem is due to the headunit supplying unclean power, which it typically always is. But if it's because the speakers are distorting due to not being able to handle the power (as in when a power amp is used), buying a bigger amp will only exagerate the problem.

[Edub1]

Loony have you read through this thread?

The guy is buying 6.5" speakers to drive with a basic head unit. In this guys case, as in 99.9% of cases, people buy speakers with high wattage ratings and then clip the head unit's internal amp (or a small amp)attempting to drive the speaker. Hence, my statement on underpowering the speaker.

The rule of thumb is that your amp's power should roughly match the power rating of the speaker. Too little power and the amp will clip before achieving the speaker's full potential. Too much power and you fail to use the amp's full potential or damage the speakers.

Also, certain speakers are designed to operate at a given power level. A high power speaker is designed for that and will sound best there. The opposite is true of a low powered one.

You are talking about something that simply isn't the subject.

[Looneybomber]

Yes I've read this thread and so have a few others I'm sure. What I'm doing is just clearing up a few things for those others reading this thread and trying to learn a bit.

- I agreed that upgrading to a power amp from a headunit will be benificial.- I pointed out that nearly all of the distortion in a system comes from the speaker driver itself.- I stated that a bigger amp may not help to reduce distortion at all. It's all about fixing the weakest link, which typically is the speaker driver.

I realize most people want simple yes/no answers to their question, which is what I wanted a decade ago. Knowing what I know now, I give people the whole story because there's so much that effects sound. Even within a headunit's linear range of operating (less than 0.5% distortion), normal 6.5" speakers will still produce much more distortion than will the headunit. For example, here is a graph of the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th harmonic distortions my tweeter plays at 90db, which is LESS than 1W of input.

See that 1% peak in the 2nd harmonic (H2) at 1600hz. At that same power output, the headunit will likely only be producing .05% distortion. So 20x more distortion is coming from the speaker driver at that frequency. That's also why I'll be crossing it over around 3khz.

So again, what I'm saying is a power amp will help if you're over driving the headunit, which most people do, but primary upgrades for improved sound should be speakers.

[SketchyRollin564]

damn, you guys just lost me pretty bad lol

I bought an oem cd player for $15 from my friends 01 altima, so atleast ill be able to listen to cd's

im probably gonna buy the orions since they are cheap ($90) and will sound good compared to what im used to in my car

then eventually later down the road when i have more money ill be getting different speakers, as with tweeters and a 12" sub

[Edub1]

damn, you guys just lost me pretty bad lol

I bought an oem cd player for $15 from my friends 01 altima, so atleast ill be able to listen to cd's

im probably gonna buy the orions since they are cheap ($90) and will sound good compared to what im used to in my car

then eventually later down the road when i have more money ill be getting different speakers, as with tweeters and a 12" sub

Dude, just ignore this guy. He's obviously an internet troll looking for an argument by talking about something that has no relivance to what we are discussing.

Anyone that works with car stereos will validate what I am telling you. That being said, I'm not familiar with Orions. I know the Polks sound great for like $99. Go to Circuit City's website and you can read some reviews. The problem with some speakers is that the manufacturers want to advertise high wattage ratings so they beef up the speaker. Unfortunatly that means you need more power to drive them and make them sound good. In the end you should really hear the speaker before buying.

Like I said, rule of thumb is that your amp RMS wattage rating should match the speaker's. Since your head unit probably produces around 18w RMS or less, I would go with lower wattage speakers over higher ones.

But like I said, walk into any sound shop and they will tell you the same thing.

[Broadfield]

Looney, you are a troll! .... that's funny.

Looney is just telling you guys the absolute truth backed by pure facts. I tend to talk to my customers in a way they can understand. He is just a little more hardcore

[Looneybomber]

Looney, you are a troll! .... that's funny.

They see me trollin, they hatin', something something, trying to catch me talking dirty, trying to catch me talkin dirty...

Looney is just telling you guys the absolute truth backed by pure facts. I tend to talk to my customers in a way they can understand. He is just a little more hardcore

Good point. I need to remember my audience...I tend to go a bit overboard. That's why I suck at sales.

[Broadfield]

They see me trollin, they hatin', something something, trying to catch me talking dirty, trying to catch me talkin dirty...

Dude you're not right!

[Edub1]

OK so the guy should buy a pair of $700, 300W RMS competition quality component speakers and run them with his 18W head unit and they will sound 10X better than the $100 pair of Polks he is considering.

Compairing the bass produced by subwoofers of different cone sizes has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Obviously a far superior sub with more cone area will outperform a lesser and smaller one when supplied with ample crystal clear power. BTW, what was the measured current flow in each test? Did you just turn up the power until you reached a given db range and measure THD because that isn't a valid comparison. And when comparing subs the enclosure is a major consideration as well. Where all of these subs in properly built enclosures for that sub?

What you would need to do for a proper comparison is to first put each same sized sub in an optimum enclosure of the same type and supply them with a measured power output with measured THD from the amp and then test their output. Plus, you need to ensure that both subs are designed for the type of enclosure you are using. And you can't just go by the amp's rating, you need to measure the actual wattage being supplied durring your test or the test is meaningless.

Even then, you can't compair the way a sub behaves in a lab to the way a full range speaker behaves in an actual application - it's an apples to oranges comparison.

Again, the guy is working with maybe 18 RMS watts. Try driving your $1000 18" sub with that. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that those $99 polks outperform your $1000 sub by lightyears at that power level.

Higher end speakers with higher wattage ratings nearly always have a stiffer cone that requires more power to make it move. If an amp lacks the power to move the cone in a manner for which the speaker was designed, the speaker will not perform well. This is what we are talking about, not some bench test of subwoofers driven by a collosal amp.

My advise to the original poster is to go into some local sound shops, talk to the salesman and give a listen to a few speakers within your price range and stick with well know, highly rated brands. If you really want good clean sound, stay with your $99 speakers up front, ditch the rear pair and consider buying a small amp to match. I'm sure you can get a 35W 2 channel amp cheap.

The limitd power you will get from your head unit isn't going to produce a whole lot of sound regarless of how good your speakers are and it is easy to clip the units internal amp and ruin your speakers.

Like I said, anybody who sells or installs car audio at an actual shop will tell you exactely what I'm telling you. And be careful listening to guys on the internet talking about some overly technical nonsense. A lot of Circuit Cities are closing down and they carry Polks, see what kind of deal you can get and they can advise you. Maybe they have an open box amp too.

Modified by Edub1 at 12:33 PM 12/6/2008
Modified by Edub1 at 12:37 PM 12/6/2008

[Looneybomber]

Subwoofer tests. Done wrong. Do it like this.

I didn't read your whole post, but if you want to take it up with the guy that did the tests, he's an R&D engineer for this company.http://www.genelec.com/

And without getting into an arguement, what better way of comparing speakers is there than to test them at the same db output, because ultimately, that's what matters. Anyway, that's enough out of me, I'll let you talk to the engineer himself Mr. Illka R., instead of me, a student.

[Edub1]

What I'm mainly telling you is that it doesn't matter. And of course you can't test at the same db level. That only tells you which one sounds better at that particular level without consideration to anything else.

What we are discussing is what sounds better when fed with a given level of power which in this case is severely restricted.

I think you are lost in something more technical than what is being discussed and failing to see the forest for the trees. 99% of average Joe systems distort because the operator turns the volume up until their low power amps clip. This isn't rocket science.

[SketchyRollin564]

im glad you guys are done lol

so yeah broadfield i guess im gonna go with the 4 orions for 90

how would i buy them?