There has been a lot of miscommunication on both sides of the table regarding the others forum and events of the past 3 or 4 days. We, the administrative team, are writing to you for several reasons that we will explain soon.

A while ago, you guys began posting general threads in the others forum. Because the forum was essentially "dead" and had relatively little moderating, this was able to continue for quite some time. I think we can both agree that this was a bad decision on your part. Taking over a forum dedicated to being a home for people whose cars didn't have a home was inconsiderate.

We as an admin team had known about this misuse of the others forum for quite some team. Even Torry was a regular participator in the threads. While we never approved of it, we allowed it to continue. This was our first mistake. We should have stopped it before everything got out of hand. As it was, we did not and it wasn't until a little over a week ago that we seriously considered deleting the forum. Leaving it open and "booting" you out wasn't an option, as the forum was dead anyway. So all 4 administrators (Greg, Fred, Nick & Torry) agreed to shut down the others forum.

This is where we made our second mistake. Rather than communicating to you what we were doing, we simply pulled the plug on the forum without prior warning. For that, we are sorry and we understand why some of you reacted the way you did. We should have let you know beforehand; this was a lack of communication on our part.

The reaction to the removal was mixed. Some were very angry, others indifferent and still some moved their chat to the QR forum. This was intolerable. To take over an engine forum that is just as important as any other was not a good decision either, as I'm sure you'll all agree. I'll admit that we did not forsee such a heated resistance to our decision and were caught off guard as a result.

During times like this, we sometimes go into triage mode, where we stabilize and wait for recovery. This is what we did with the others forum. Rather than communicate with you to work out a solution, we made a new forum that was exclusive; you had to have specific permissions to view the threads within it and to post in it.

Looking back on this decision, we as an admin team all agree that this was not what we wanted. NICO has always been an inclusive group, one that never kicks someone out for not being knowledgeable enough or smart enough. We rarely ban people and we try to keep flaming down to a minimum. All-inclusive is one of our mottos and one we have always taken to heart.

This Others forum goes against this. I do not know if you are aware since you can access this forum, but every single user can see it. They just can't click on it. It says "permission denied". Those two words right there go completely against the idea of NICO. We absolutely cannot make a forum for others to see it exists, but keep them out.

Therein lies the rub. As it stands right now, we do not think this software is capable of making a truely hidden forum and, since we cannot allow this forum to be exclusive any longer we are faced with a tough decision. We basically have two choices. 1) We can unlock the forum so that anyone can have access, but allow you to continue posting in here. 2) We can delete the forum and move the posts into general chat.

We will be making that decision within the next 48 hours but, before we do, we would like to hear from you. We want to know which option you prefer and why and we are also open to hearing alternative ideas from you. Just remember that NICO values is inclusivity and we will not be willing to compromise that.

We as a team would like to apologize for not communicating the above statements to you before all this drama occurred and hope this thread is a good first step to making amends for that. We hope we can come up with a solution that everybody can live with, even if they aren't happy about it.

Sincerely,

Greg, Fred, Torry & Nick

Personally, I don't care if the forum is password protected. In fact, it's almost a nuisance since I have to log in to see any new posts here, and can't just click for a quick glance. I see no reason to prevent other members from coming in. It started out just another forum, but that few people knew about. Everyone could come in and post if they wanted, that worked fine.

I agree completely that we can't have an "exclusivity" that keeps other members out. We sort of have our own little exclusive group anyhow, since we all know eachother so well. Good enough for me. That's why I was asking if the forum was supposed to be fully hidden...I didn't want people becoming offended when they attempted to view the forum.

I also acknowledge the extra effort required to moderate a "special" forum for a few people.

I became concerned when we started "voting" to let people in. I realized that would not look good, either to the admin team or to other Niconauts. It's not right, either. I figured we'd be seeing a post like this from one of you guys (admins) fairly soon.

I'd like to say this, also, though:It is the old others forum that made me such an active member of NICO. These guys, Repo, 1der, Jesda, wes, Nicole, and everybody else who is a regular here (sorry if I forgot anyone--it's late), are the people who made me feel at home here. While I enjoy replying to and e-associating with all NICO members, these guys (and girl) are sort of my NICO family. This does not mean, however, that I feel in any way exclusive of the rest of NICO. We had both before...look at general chat, and our respective car forums. We contribute to the whole of NICO. But at the same time, we have our group. I don't see how it hurts anyone.

Whatever you guys do, It's appreciated that you made this effort to hear our opinions on the matter, and gave us a chance to have our wierd little forum back.

Oh, and something I just thought of:We were never trying to "resist" your decision. It wasn't hostile or anything like that...we just moved to a new place. I admit that had I given it thought, I might have seen how it would appear, but there was never intention to challenge your decision...not as far as I was concerned anyhow. There was no intention of disrespect. I didn't know why the "others" forum had disappeared. I thought maybe since it wasn't really used. So moving to the QR forum didn't seem like it was opposing anything. I didn't realize it was the "others" as a group and not the "others" forum you had attempted to delete. Again, a lack of thought on my part.

Modified by MinisterofDOOM at 8:50 AM 1/28/2005
Modified by MinisterofDOOM at 8:53 AM 1/28/2005

Well I will voice my opinion even though it's not very strong on the subject. I am someone who has made a few post in the Others forum. I never spend any great deal of time there because I usually don't get around to it. By the time I check in on and post into the sections of NICO that I moderate it's time for bed. There was very little important information in the Others forum but it was/is entertaining. On occasion there would be unsuitable material posted there, which seemed to be done just to see what could be gotten away with.

I understand why you think that something must be done in order to clean up the site. I hope that this is something that will also help the future site re-format.

I don't have any preference as to what you should do next. I do hope that the people that were upset about the miscommunication can understand what is going on and accept it as something that is best for NICO. I know how they feel. If the 350z section just disappeared one day I would be pretty damn pissed off as well.

Thanks for the time and effort put into this communication.

Wow, wow, WOW.

I was shocked by the initial removal of the Others forum, especially given the casual nature it went it was communicated (as a P.S. in a thread). And am just as surprised to see after being brought back it may get 86'ed again .

I was very pleased to see it re-instated, and appreciate all the effort that was put into doing so by Torry and ?group?. Though I, like MinisterofDoom, was not thrilled with the idea of "voting" people in or out. The "selectiveness or exclusivity" is not something I agree with, as stated in my reply to the S13 Guy in or out thread, but I understand the idea was to not create a Gen Chat 2 (or would it be 3 - 240 Gen Chat & Gen Chat).

If our little "playground" needs to be dissolved, then so be it, but I'd rather see that, than an exclusive section of NICO, well other than the Mod/Admin forums, those serve a specific purpose.

Thanks for allowing the opprotunity to discuss this openly.

I'm impressed by the response I've seen so far.

Suffice it to say that a lot of thought went into how to resolve this matter, while remaining true to our ideals and values on NICO.

I'll shoulder the blame for not allowing that thought process to occur BEFORE we acted. Sometimes in the hubbub and din, I make knee-jerk decisions that should be mulled over before acting upon them.

Hopefully the energy that went into keeping the "Others" forum vibrant and interesting can be redirected to General Chat, the technical forums, and ensuring a successful National Meet in March.

Thanks guys - You are appreciated.

Hey, atleast you guys put it up for discussion, although I'm 90% sure you've already reached your decision, no matter what the masses say.

I'd love to be able to screw around with the members of NICO without pussyfooting around the rules and worrying about upsetting that 2% of our members who are bleeding heart liberal queers. The Others forum basically turned into that place. SO I'll be sad to see it go. But I'll stand by whats best for NICO as a whole...always have always will.

Although, I do plan to have sidebar with all the mod/admin types who show up in March. Some things should be brought out in the open on a face to face type basis.

LOVE YOU

I understand what the "Others" fourms what actually there for. People like me who don't have the every day Nissan. Being that I owned a not so common Nissan, I check on a whim one day to see what this forum was. Well, I was surprised, needless to say, that this forum wasn't actually about people who had "other"cars, but people who considered themselves "others" for the fact that they may not have been normal for a lack of a better world. Being that I live where I do, and drive what I drive, and think how I think, I feel that being part of an "others" forum was quite a neat idea. I still go to gen chat, as well as 240 gen chat, 240 tech, skyline gen chat, skyline tech, rb, sr and many other different parts of the NICO world. Maybe voting to let certian people in are a bad idea. I may not agree with things that other users say, but that's what make an internet forum work. Being able to have an educated, or not, discussion with people stating their views on a subject or question. The others forum was more like the place I visited when I wanted to see what was happening in other parts of the "world" so to speak.

And to the ADMINS. What ever you decide to do with our beloved sanctuary, I understand what and for why you decided to do with it. If you let it stay, bless you, if you send it to the recycle bin in the sky, well, that was your decision to make.

To the "others"...time heals all wounds, be it physical or mental, and we can move on together.

If it must die, then it must die. Its so public now that it really cant really be the quirky hole in the ground that it once was anyway.

well i dont know how exactly public it is

but the quirky hole in the ground was nice

The biggest concern I have is how it appears to other members, as well as new people.

I have always thought limiting access to ANY part of a forum is a bad idea, whether it be the "premium" (haha) content on FA that costs $59.95 to access (ghey), or an "exclusive" area here for people who WE deem (or deemed themselves) "cool" enough to have an exclusive area.

We (collectively) just didn't handle it right from the get-go, and I take full responsibility for that.

I'm just glad our membership is mature enough and reasonable enough to understand the logic here and to accept that we're only human, and we're doing the best we can...

Besides, we have something REALLY kickass coming VERY soon, you guys are gonna be real proud of this place.

I recommend an AIM chat for the "Others" on occasion. I'll pop in and say wassup.

Well, I'd ask that something for C33 and SKAGEE still exist, as their cars don't fit into any of the other catgeories??

Maybe TMS has a recommendation?

Yeah, actually. The reason I started hanging out here (others) in the beginning was because of my Ford. I always thought the "others" forum was supposed to be for non-nissan drivers. Sort of a way to say "welcome to our community, even if you don't drive a nissan." I think we still need that.

first, i really appreciate that you are willing to hear our prespective of all this and are trying your best to please everyone. i would like to see the "others" forum stay open to all people, simply because there is a few people here who do have other cars and this is the place for them. and i dont particularly like the idea of having a "secret" forum either, because then how would new people ever get into our little circle, we all had our first posts here too once upon a time. i also don't think any single person is responsible for all of this, but it is more like a domino effect and in a way, everyone had a part in it. honestly, before all this, i never really thought of how our posts didnt belong here, only because there was so little activity in the first place and we were all getting along nicely without displacing those who wanted to post about other cars. I also realize that it was wrong to "hijack" the QR forum, so to speak, and it was a rash and poor decision on our part. the way I see it, even if the others forum ceases to exist, everyone who is/was part of it will still be freinds and we can still be in contact via aim, so its not the end of the world.

if this forum is deleted, i dont think that ALL of the threads should be moved to general chat, but it may be better to allow some to die along with the forum.

thanks for listeningmike

Well whatever happens happens. Im not going to put a lot of thought into this, because we have admins that do that....

The bottom line is, the "others" forum is never going to be what it used to be... So i figure just delete it all, keep the threads if you like, but get rid of it all, and it shall go into the NICO hall of fame......

I gotta agree with Wes.

instead of becoming a joke like 240 gen...I'd prefer it disappear.

why must everything beautiful wither and die?

if we lose this forum though, what will SKAGEE and C33 do?

they have cars not included in any forum.

and they shared knowledge of them with us....

if anything...make it back to normal...I guess this goes against what I said, but what can I say, I'm like a really bad movie sequel.

It will be good memories.... Like the noodles thread

Anyway, maybe we could replace the "others" forum with a "JDM only" forum, so for the JDM cars will have a forum...

Thatd be cool, and I think we'd all agree not to post in this other forum that is NOT the others forum....

We can still have AIM chats, which are just as fun.... Except they dont go towards our post count

i dont really care about post count all that much, once you top 1000 its kind of all the same untill you get to like 8 or 9k, but by then everyone knows who you are anyway

240kid wrote:i dont really care about post count all that much, once you top 1000 its kind of all the same untill you get to like 8 or 9k, but by then everyone knows who you are anyway

Speak for yourself, I'm Mr K!

give mikey and me a bit, we shall achieve this level in due time

I liked it how it was. I enjoyed posting things not quite fit for General Chat under Others. But I guess I can do that at the Cadillac forums, or dodgeintrepid.net. I even ran into a few old friends I havent seen in forever (since moving away) at the dodge forum.

NICO may be the best damn forum there is or ever was, but its not the only one.

oh yes it is.

I haven't been on SCCOA in months...

so about 1 day left now?

if the others forum gets deleted, where will james get all of his T-bird info??

i would prefer to keep it up, so as if someone who doesn't have a nissan comes on these boards, they have a place they can share info or ask for help on their cars. they'll never get any attention for an issue in general.

as long as the forum is a little better moderated, and any off topic thread is moved back to general, we should be all right.

tenkawa_akito wrote:if the others forum gets deleted, where will james get all of his T-bird info??

i would prefer to keep it up, so as if someone who doesn't have a nissan comes on these boards, they have a place they can share info or ask for help on their cars. they'll never get any attention for an issue in general.

as long as the forum is a little better moderated, and any off topic thread is moved back to general, we should be all right.

That is a decent point, but mainly it defeats the purpose of the others forum (its quasi purpose), AND it is using the forum for what its supposed to be used for...

elwesso wrote:but mainly it defeats the purpose of the others forum (its quasi purpose)

the others forum is basically an "other cars" forum that never gets used, right? how is it defeating the purpose of the forum if the moderators force it to be used for its intended purpose?

well we have like 4 people with "other" cars, and then we have Andy's pawns, like myself

sad to see it go. it was fun while it lasted kids. i also agree that it really isnt anyones fault, try not to point fingers over such a trivial matter. it doenst matter who did what, i respect the mods and admin for doing what they need to to keep nico going. btw if this does move to aim chat could someone invite me, well that is if you want me to be there

I think that since the general consensus is to "unlock" the forum, then that's what we'll do for the meantime. Just to let you know, I am going to move out other threads such as voting etc. as that would just cause problems for the people who you voted on. I'm just going to move them, so if there is a specific one you want back, just let me know.

Thank you guys for being reasonable about this.

Nick

i was actually going to suggest that if you unlock it to move some of those

colies97~240sx wrote:btw if this does move to aim chat could someone invite me, well that is if you want me to be there

i have your sn from your profile, just get on at nights and well get you in there