Atlas Shrugged Part I - SPOILERS ALERT

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stebo0728
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Ok, to be fair to the other thread I decided to move this over to its own thread.

Charlie Jane Anders at io9.com wrote:Every cult needs its own wacky trainwreck of a movie. Scientology got Battlefield Earth, and now the cult of Ayn Rand gets Atlas Shrugged, Part 1. But how does Atlas stand up to Battlefield Earth?

Quite well, actually. Atlas Shrugged Part 1, which just opened in theaters today, is a grand addition to the roster of movies that are both kooky and clunky. A movie this hideously wonderful really ought to be against the law.

Spoilers ahead...
Actually, scratch that. The federal government shouldn't outlaw dreadful movies like Atlas Shrugged – rather, the feds should just regulate them. For example, we could have a federal mandate that all such movies must star Nicolas Cage or a comparable actor – someone who knows how to bring the right level of gravitas to dialogue like, "Which do I sacrifice: an excellent piece of smelting, or this Institute?"

Call it the Nicolas Cage Full Employment Act. Or better yet, since Nic Cage is a precious national resource that's currently being distributed unevenly, the Nic Cage National Equalization Act. It should be up to the federal government to make sure that as many ludicrously insane movies as possible have access to the vital panacea that is Nic Cage.
I just pretty much dismissed this first portion as ignorant rant, conforming to his own ideas of cult worship, but for Nic Cage instead. It contributed nothing to the review of the film.
The good news is, according to Atlas Shrugged the movie, all it takes to pass a new federal law is three people sitting in an upscale restaurant, as long as one of them has a cigar. Any time someone with a cigar mentions some completely demented idea for a federal law, it becomes the law of the land within five minutes or so.
What the film, and the book too for that matter, did was to spare the viewer/reader from the machinations of a Congress gone wayward. The smoke parlor rendezvous by the miscreants of the story arent too out of line with the reality of the Obama/Pelosi/Reed gangups we've seen, we just dont get to see all the other partisan hackery going on behind the scenes of the story. This is where the book comes in a little better to describe the political ties, and favors involved with the legislations in the story.
In Atlas Shrugged Part 1, it's the dystopian year of 2016, and a lot of stuff has gone off the rails (literally) in just five years. The economy has collapsed, and the Dow Jones Industrial Average is under 4,000. Because of unrest in the Middle East, there's no more oil, and gasoline is $37 a gallon. We see lots of scenes of the rusted, decaying landscape, with former corporate vice presidents standing around wearing sandwich boards proclaiming that they will vice-preside for food. (And even though everybody's out of work and there's almost no industry, people talking about runaway inflation, presumably because elves are on a buying spree.)
Slightly understandable critique, but then again, we do have to get some fiction somewhere in the story.
So everybody has to travel by rail – which makes it a shame that the antiquated rail lines have something like a 50 percent derailment rate. The federal government seems totally uninterested in mandating safety standards for the rail industry, since all the feds care about is outlawing competition and efficiency and stuff.
The best response to this portion is, wait and see, this makes more sense as the story progresses. And the government of the story is not uninvolved in safety standards, they just dont use them for actual safety, but as a political currency, with mandates passed and enforced as favors rather than actual safety measures.
So we meet the Taggarts, head of the amazingly Taggart Railway, which practically has a "Days Without Derailment: 0" sign hanging in its headquarters. There's Jim Taggart, who'd rather beg the government to put his slightly less derail-y competitors out of business than replace all his railway ties that are currently made out of cotton candy. Meanwhile, there's his amazonian sister Dagny, who wants to succeed in the rail business by actually having rails. It's one of those radical ideas that might just work.

The trouble is, Dagny is having trouble getting new steel rails made, probably because of the government. So she turns to a new company, Rearden Metal, which has a new metal that's twice as light as steel and yet twice as sturdy. People keep warning Dagny that metalologists think this new metal is unstable, and it's never been tested – because in this dystopian future, everyone's forgotten the secret of testing metal. The Senior Metalological Institute of Metalology is extremely perturbed.
Cant figure out if the reviewer here is being sarcastic or not, because he just pretty much nailed the theme right there, and as this whole review has a negative undertone, I suggest sarcasm was intended here, but taken as a serious statement, he's made an excellent point. First of all, again, the book would reveal, Taggart Transcontinental does have a pretty good record, but the point of the interactions is to show that Jim, the idiot of the story, has chosen to give an inferior supplier a contract, in this interest of "fairness". The book describes how the train company has had a long standing relationship with Rearden Metal, and that the new contract with the "little guy" was a new development, and is costing the company money because the "little guy" just cant deliver because he doesnt understand the industry. The "Rearden Metal" is a new development that Dagny decides to try, because Rearden Metal can supply the product, where as the "little guy" cant. Anyway, thats the practical solution, and the one Dagny chooses. Jim however, takes the political favor road with the "Dog eat dog" rule, requiring the long standing service providers to be favored and given "monopoly powers" no less, in a given region, this forces the competitor out of business.

The one major theme you will pick up on, is that competition is admirable, not an enemy to advancement. When the other railway is forced under, Dagny is infuriated, not because she wants the competition, but because its not the place of the government to be imposing these standards.
So anyway Dagny decides to use Rearden Metal's new Rearden Metal to replace her rails, without testing it first, because the Invisible Hand. Dagny and Hank begin a sweaty, lustful, entrepreneurial courtship, which consists of them looking into each other's eyes and talking mistily about the power of selfishness. They're the only two people who understand each other, in a world of frivolous, decadent rich people who just want to be part of the system and drink endlessly fizzy cocktails.
They arent the only 2 who understand, there are a few more, some of which are "disappearing".
And of course, all the other business people, who can't compete with Dagny and Hank, want the government to drive them out of business. Cue lots of scenes of those three guys coming up with ever more cracktastic ideas for new laws, such as the idea that one person can only own one company. (And for some reason, Rearden Metal, Rearden Smelting and Rearden Ore are three different companies. Hank should fire his lawyers.) People talk seriously about the "Dog Eat Dog rule" outlawing competition between companies, and the Equalization of Opportunity Bill outlawing some states having more money than others. You start to wonder just what is in those cigars they're smoking – and can we in the audience have some too?
I really dont consider any of the legislation present in this story to be out of the realm of possibility. In fact, if our love affair with socialism continues to slip us into the void, you will indeed begin to hear whispers of stuff like this, even if its taken straight from the pages of this story and considered sound doctrine.

We've already seen an afront to states rights upheld by SCOTUS.

We see government getting in the business of running businesses, dictating fee structures. Interference in the private sector is interference, and aside from butting out, theres only one direction that leads.
Meanwhile, the debate over whether Rearden Metal's Rearden Metal is safe goes on and on. At one point, the State Science Institute apparently decides the metal is safe – but issues a statement saying otherwise, because they're worried about losing their funding. They're the last remaining science institute in the country and they're hanging on by a thread. (That's where we get the great line about "excellent smelting," which sort of sums up the movie right there.)
This is a page right out of the Al Gore, "environmentalism" book. Actions like this are not out of the realm of reality.
My absolute favorite scene in the movie comes soon after, where Armin Shimmerman (Quark from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine) shows up to portray the ultimate personification of central planning – the Anti-Quark, if you will. The Anti-Quark wants Hank Rearden to sell his company to the government, so he'll stop putting all those poor steel companies out of business. Hank tells the Anti-Quark that he'll sell the company if the Anti-Quark can answer the question, "Is Rearden Metal good?" He asks this like ten times, and the Anti-Quark refuses to answer, finally saying that it doesn't matter – if the metal is bad, then it'll cause horrible fatalities on this new railroad. If the metal actually is good, then it'll put these other companies out of business. So it's either a safety risk or a social risk.

Oh, and Armin Shimmerman gets the amazing line, "During a steel shortage, we can't allow a company that produces too much steel."

The whole business left me wanting to meet the Anti-Odo.
This was actually one of my favorite parts. Exactly why would a government agency want to purchase the rights to an inferior, nay, UNSAFE product? This move on the part of the government reaked, and Hank called them out on it, and the interactions of this run-in were top notch.
So the movie, in general, is about the development of new technology, and whether society should welcome or fear scientific innovation. And the two choices appear to be: A) test the new metal by running a train over a suspension bridge made out of it, going 250 miles per hour; or B) condemn the new metal without any testing whatsoever. In a sense, this movie aims to fulfill that great mission of science fiction: exploring the impact of new scientific discoveries on the world as a whole. Unfortunately, we get only one or two moments where anybody takes seriously the idea that a metal half as heavy and twice as strong as steel could have some interesting uses. Damn those metalologers.
The review couldn't have missed the mark any worse than here. The story, in general, is about the ramifications of government involvement in the private sector, about the results of socialist policies, and about which class truly needs the other for existence. Innovation and science are merely overtones of the story, when read with an open mind. But when hammered by reviews that this is "libertarian spooge" and realizing that it directly attacks socialist policies, progressive minds struggle to find other "themes" to avoid confronting the ACTUAL theme.
And then towards the end of the movie, we suddenly take a sharp left turn, because Dagny and Hank find out a miraculous engine that uses the Casimir Effect and has a miniature particle accelerator in it to create atmospheric intensity. It's like the engine equivalent of Rearden Metal's fabulous Rearden Metal, except that it was never produced because the company that was making it turned Socialist.

So Dagny goes on a quest to track down the inventor of this engine, which leads her to a former physics professor who now runs a diner in the middle of nowhere. He tells her, "The secret you're trying to solve is greater – and I mean, much greater – than an engine that runs on atmospheric intensity."

What could be greater than an engine that runs on atmospheric intensity? We may never find out (unless we read the book, which seems like too much to ask) because the movie ends soon afterwards. This is only part one of a two three-part movie – because just like Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn, there's too much story in Atlas Shrugged for just one movie.
I only hope that the next installment gives even HALF justice to the interactions in Part II of the book. It will really drive home the disparity of themes I outlined above. Again, the motor mentioned here, is merely an overtone of whats really going on.
I don't want to give away the movie's cliffhanger ending, but it's basically the culmination of a running subplot in which men of genius are all vanishing to join the mysterious John Galt. And it ends with Dagny on her knees, surrounded by flames and giant libertarian placards, looking up at the camera and shrieking, "Nooooooooooo!"

Somehow, I think everyone in the audience knows how she feels.
That giant libertarian placard was classic. And was a perfect transition into the next Part. It will make sense. I urge the review to actually keep an open mind when reading or viewing this story, to set aside any preconceived notions they may have, and analyze the themes from a neutral basis.


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ive read her three main books and i found them all to be exceptionally boring and way out of touch with reality. its too bad her twisted ideology is being embraced by people who do not even have the reading capacity to tackle a basic CNN article.

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its nice to see that the reviewers seem to agree. also, take note, how shocking that that shill of a paper the New York Post would find this movie to be good.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/atlas_shrugged_part_i/
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbc ... /110419990
http://www.avclub.com/articles/atlas-sh ... t-i,54675/
http://www.pajiba.com/film_reviews/atla ... farted.php

Ebert -"And now I am faced with this movie, the most anticlimactic non-event since Geraldo Rivera broke into Al Capone’s vault."

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"Some fiction?" You kill me, Stebo.

The books serve to beat people over the head with libertarian-constructed strawmen, served up by an early 20th century meth head. She villainizes thieves and leeches, but gives you just enough rope to hang yourself with those concepts, as I challenge you to apply those principles in any meaningful way.

My hatred for Ayn Rand doesn't so much revolve around the content of her beliefs. It exists in the way that my hatred for Honda Civics stems from having met too many Honda Civic drivers.

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Never read the book or seen the movie. Any reviews on Nineteen Eighty Four?

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heliochrome85 wrote:ive read her three main books and i found them all to be exceptionally boring and way out of touch with reality. its too bad her twisted ideology is being embraced by people who do not even have the reading capacity to tackle a basic CNN article.
love ya big guy, but if you've already sanctioned looting for the sake of "public good" then I wouldnt really expect you to get much out of Rand's novels. They really appeal more to those who value private property rights above all else.

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No, they really appeal to libertarians. That's called "preaching to the choir."

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stebo0728
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Its fair to say the appeal MOST to libertarians, but libertarians don't own the patent on private property rights, complete free trade, and personal responsibility

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No, but they do own the patent on Ayn Rand fanboyship.

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IBCoupe wrote:No, but they do own the patent on Ayn Rand fanboyship.

damn
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPr-xsQvhgw[/youtube]

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By far the first video was more damning than the second. The only thing I got from the second video was chuckle when Hitchens indicated that no one really needed to write at length defending selfishness. Personally, I can't stand Hitchens.

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too bad he is dying of cancer, because we need more intelligent debators in this world.

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Took too long to load. I'll have to check them out from home/school.

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T,
I would caution against supporting people just because they oppose someone you dont like. I dont buy into the adage that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

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Cold_Zero wrote:T,
I would caution against supporting people just because they oppose someone you dont like. I dont buy into the adage that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
im no fan of hitchens positions, but his arguments are crafted with the same care and attention to detail that one would expect from a fine watch. his style is truly second to none.

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Blog wrote:
Atlas Shrugged, for those of you who never read it, can be summarized entirely fairly as follows. Unknown to our viewpoint characters at first, an inventor named John Galt has invented a "free energy" machine, a motor that runs on ambient static electricity and the Earth's own inertia and puts out enough electricity in a fairly small unit to power almost anything, including vehicles, force field generators, energy weapons, even an invisibility cloak if you use a big enough unit. He invented this while working at a company where his contract gave them rights to stuff he invented on the clock, like most professional engineers and inventors, but he assumed that as the inventor, he was entitled to all of the profits from this fabulous new invention. The company's management and other employees, though, saw just how much resentment would happen if one company owned the monopoly on an invention this valuable, and started making plans for how to invest some of the profits into charitable ventures, so they wouldn't get the whole thing taken away from them via eminent domain. John Galt, outraged that anybody would even suggest that he or the company he worked for owed anything to the nation that provided his education, protected him from infectious disease outbreaks, protected him from Communist invasion, built the roads that got him to work each day, provided the police that kept him safe, and provided the court system that protected his property rights at all, sabotaged the Galt Engine, so nobody could have it.

Then he went further and, in a fit of offended pique, promised to "stop the motor of the world," to kill 90% or so of Earth's population by intentionally wrecking the economy. Which he then did. How? By finding every other competent engineer or manager in the US and persuading them to be just as selfish as him, just as unwilling to pay back or protect their country; he declared a covert "strike of the mind," as he called it. He hid them all in a secretive compound in the Rocky Mountains, protected by force field and invisibility cloak, and waited for the US economy to collapse, which, obligingly, it did -- because John Galt had carefully sabotaged the bridges and railroads that made it possible for fuel and seeds to make it from the coastal cities to inland farms, and make it possible for food grown on inland farms to make it to the coastal cities. And as chaos was breaking out, he and his fellow inventors hijacked every radio transmitter in the US to broadcast his manifesto: You all deserve to die, for asking us to pay you back even one nickel, because we are all so selfish we don't consider any of the things you all paid for out of your taxes and that you did with your labor to have been at all helpful to us as entirely self-sufficient brilliant inventors and managers. So die.

And that's where the series is interrupted. But from where the third book picks up, and by applying a little common sense, we can outline the main plot points, if not the characterizations, from the untitled middle volume, the one I'm whimsically calling Atlas Shrugged 2: Shrug Harder. When the previous book ran out, America was winding down to what was clearly going to be the last harvest, ever, and the Strikers were planning for the day that they, as the only people possessing any high tech or any capability of mass production of food or anything else, would ride out of their hidden Colorado fortress as humanity's saviors. They were pledging to themselves to build a new world based, as John Galt's manifesto had promised all Americans, on the virtue of selfishness. They assumed that a grateful (or at least desperately needy) and vastly reduced in number population would welcome them as liberators, chastened and having learned their lesson. Except that we know from the third book that that's not what happened, and anybody who knows human nature should have been able to predict that.

Outside the valley, the conversion to local subsistence farming and the work of scavenging the dead cities for any usable metal would have been rough. No time or energy would have been available to save even minimal technology. We're looking at a collapse all the way back to (at best) early iron age levels, maybe even all the way back to the bronze age, and nobody will even have time to teach the next generation to read and write. But one thing very clearly did happen, in every survivor's village, and became world-wide policy as soon as even minimal travel and communication made it possible for the chiefs of the scattered villages of survivors began to reunite society into any kind of a civilization, and that is a fierce determination to make sure that the next generation remembered who had done this to them, and why they had done it. They would have educated their children to remember the names and descriptions of every one of the hated Strikers who had personally murdered four and a half billion people for a political point. And they would have educated their children that one idea, one idea in the Strikers' twisted minds, had lead to those four and a half billion deaths, the greatest act of genocide in human history: selfishness. How far did they go to eradicate selfishness? They went so far as to eradicate the first person pronoun from the language.

Because she died without telling anyone, it's not entirely clear how Shrug Harder would have ended. We know that at some point, at least one of the Strikers does leave Galt Valley. He built a high-tech home, stuffed it with a library and all the wonders of the Strikers' science, and then (apparently) set out to make contact with the nearest survivors' village, assuming that they'd worship him as a god for his technological superiority, assuming they'd cheerfully feed him and provide him with anything he wanted for the products of his labor. And, rather obviously, they did what anybody would do: they executed him for crimes against humanity. His technological redoubt was never found. Did other Strikers meet the same fate, or are they all holed up in Galt Valley still? We'll never know. But that brings us to the book that would clearly have been relabeled once the trilogy was complete ... Atlas Shrugged 3: Anthem.
Wow, this guys reading comprehension is so low it seriously makes me doubt whether he even read the book. His analysis is so off base, I dont really know where to start. Now Im rebutting his analysis of the book, not reality, lets keep that straight, but I think theres at least somewhat of a parallel between the two.

First of all, the portrayal of Galt's original actions completely missed the mark. Galt did not sabotage his invention, even in the least, he simply refused to work under the marxist policies his employer instituted, and he simply got up, walked out, and washed his hands of it. The company was free to continue his research, to complete the invention, and that there were neither willing or able was not the fault of Galt. The description, told second hand by a homeless man who witnessed the event, described the downfall of Twentieth Century Motor Company, which revolved around the marxist policies instituted, and the entire ordeal provides what I consider a pretty spot on depiction of what any marxist institution would endure upon its downfall. The "tried and untrue" motto of "from each according to his need, from each according to his ability" played upon the very darkest of natures of mankind, embellish your need, minimize your ability. But suddenly, with no one of ability left, how is all the need met?

The second major flaw this guy has, is that Galt did not sabbotage the economy. He simply approached like minded individuals, and showed them that it was possible for them to leave their post, that they did not need the world, and that since the world apparently did not need them, that a reprieve was justified. While its true that one individual in the Galt camp employed unsavory maritime measures as a pirate, this was not directly sanctioned by Galt, thought not entirely condemned either.

Upon delivery of the "manifesto", the instructions were simple, "get out of the way". And by this, reversing of the control measures that were NOT working was the intention. Galt himself recognized necessary and proper uses for the government, but the controls were not part of the solution. The idea was not anarchy, only open fair trade, and an unbridled capitalist society, a society where one mans liberties were not abridged by another man's need.

I did not read past where he started reviewing Anthem, as I've yet to read it, but Im almost positive he's completely missed the mark with it too. I get the feeling the reviewer here had this entire summary in his head regardless of his thoughts on the book itself.

I challenge you to read the book and actually support this analysis with a straight face (or straight typing hands as the case may be)

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stebo0728 wrote:
Blog wrote:
Atlas Shrugged, for those of you who never read it, can be summarized entirely fairly as follows. Unknown to our viewpoint characters at first, an inventor named John Galt has invented a "free energy" machine, a motor that runs on ambient static electricity and the Earth's own inertia and puts out enough electricity in a fairly small unit to power almost anything, including vehicles, force field generators, energy weapons, even an invisibility cloak if you use a big enough unit. He invented this while working at a company where his contract gave them rights to stuff he invented on the clock, like most professional engineers and inventors, but he assumed that as the inventor, he was entitled to all of the profits from this fabulous new invention. The company's management and other employees, though, saw just how much resentment would happen if one company owned the monopoly on an invention this valuable, and started making plans for how to invest some of the profits into charitable ventures, so they wouldn't get the whole thing taken away from them via eminent domain. John Galt, outraged that anybody would even suggest that he or the company he worked for owed anything to the nation that provided his education, protected him from infectious disease outbreaks, protected him from Communist invasion, built the roads that got him to work each day, provided the police that kept him safe, and provided the court system that protected his property rights at all, sabotaged the Galt Engine, so nobody could have it.

Then he went further and, in a fit of offended pique, promised to "stop the motor of the world," to kill 90% or so of Earth's population by intentionally wrecking the economy. Which he then did. How? By finding every other competent engineer or manager in the US and persuading them to be just as selfish as him, just as unwilling to pay back or protect their country; he declared a covert "strike of the mind," as he called it. He hid them all in a secretive compound in the Rocky Mountains, protected by force field and invisibility cloak, and waited for the US economy to collapse, which, obligingly, it did -- because John Galt had carefully sabotaged the bridges and railroads that made it possible for fuel and seeds to make it from the coastal cities to inland farms, and make it possible for food grown on inland farms to make it to the coastal cities. And as chaos was breaking out, he and his fellow inventors hijacked every radio transmitter in the US to broadcast his manifesto: You all deserve to die, for asking us to pay you back even one nickel, because we are all so selfish we don't consider any of the things you all paid for out of your taxes and that you did with your labor to have been at all helpful to us as entirely self-sufficient brilliant inventors and managers. So die.

And that's where the series is interrupted. But from where the third book picks up, and by applying a little common sense, we can outline the main plot points, if not the characterizations, from the untitled middle volume, the one I'm whimsically calling Atlas Shrugged 2: Shrug Harder. When the previous book ran out, America was winding down to what was clearly going to be the last harvest, ever, and the Strikers were planning for the day that they, as the only people possessing any high tech or any capability of mass production of food or anything else, would ride out of their hidden Colorado fortress as humanity's saviors. They were pledging to themselves to build a new world based, as John Galt's manifesto had promised all Americans, on the virtue of selfishness. They assumed that a grateful (or at least desperately needy) and vastly reduced in number population would welcome them as liberators, chastened and having learned their lesson. Except that we know from the third book that that's not what happened, and anybody who knows human nature should have been able to predict that.

Outside the valley, the conversion to local subsistence farming and the work of scavenging the dead cities for any usable metal would have been rough. No time or energy would have been available to save even minimal technology. We're looking at a collapse all the way back to (at best) early iron age levels, maybe even all the way back to the bronze age, and nobody will even have time to teach the next generation to read and write. But one thing very clearly did happen, in every survivor's village, and became world-wide policy as soon as even minimal travel and communication made it possible for the chiefs of the scattered villages of survivors began to reunite society into any kind of a civilization, and that is a fierce determination to make sure that the next generation remembered who had done this to them, and why they had done it. They would have educated their children to remember the names and descriptions of every one of the hated Strikers who had personally murdered four and a half billion people for a political point. And they would have educated their children that one idea, one idea in the Strikers' twisted minds, had lead to those four and a half billion deaths, the greatest act of genocide in human history: selfishness. How far did they go to eradicate selfishness? They went so far as to eradicate the first person pronoun from the language.

Because she died without telling anyone, it's not entirely clear how Shrug Harder would have ended. We know that at some point, at least one of the Strikers does leave Galt Valley. He built a high-tech home, stuffed it with a library and all the wonders of the Strikers' science, and then (apparently) set out to make contact with the nearest survivors' village, assuming that they'd worship him as a god for his technological superiority, assuming they'd cheerfully feed him and provide him with anything he wanted for the products of his labor. And, rather obviously, they did what anybody would do: they executed him for crimes against humanity. His technological redoubt was never found. Did other Strikers meet the same fate, or are they all holed up in Galt Valley still? We'll never know. But that brings us to the book that would clearly have been relabeled once the trilogy was complete ... Atlas Shrugged 3: Anthem.
Wow, this guys reading comprehension is so low it seriously makes me doubt whether he even read the book. His analysis is so off base, I dont really know where to start. Now Im rebutting his analysis of the book, not reality, lets keep that straight, but I think theres at least somewhat of a parallel between the two.

First of all, the portrayal of Galt's original actions completely missed the mark. Galt did not sabotage his invention, even in the least, he simply refused to work under the marxist policies his employer instituted, and he simply got up, walked out, and washed his hands of it. The company was free to continue his research, to complete the invention, and that there were neither willing or able was not the fault of Galt. The description, told second hand by a homeless man who witnessed the event, described the downfall of Twentieth Century Motor Company, which revolved around the marxist policies instituted, and the entire ordeal provides what I consider a pretty spot on depiction of what any marxist institution would endure upon its downfall. The "tried and untrue" motto of "from each according to his need, from each according to his ability" played upon the very darkest of natures of mankind, embellish your need, minimize your ability. But suddenly, with no one of ability left, how is all the need met?

The second major flaw this guy has, is that Galt did not sabbotage the economy. He simply approached like minded individuals, and showed them that it was possible for them to leave their post, that they did not need the world, and that since the world apparently did not need them, that a reprieve was justified. While its true that one individual in the Galt camp employed unsavory maritime measures as a pirate, this was not directly sanctioned by Galt, thought not entirely condemned either.

Upon delivery of the "manifesto", the instructions were simple, "get out of the way". And by this, reversing of the control measures that were NOT working was the intention. Galt himself recognized necessary and proper uses for the government, but the controls were not part of the solution. The idea was not anarchy, only open fair trade, and an unbridled capitalist society, a society where one mans liberties were not abridged by another man's need.

I did not read past where he started reviewing Anthem, as I've yet to read it, but Im almost positive he's completely missed the mark with it too. I get the feeling the reviewer here had this entire summary in his head regardless of his thoughts on the book itself.

I challenge you to read the book and actually support this analysis with a straight face (or straight typing hands as the case may be)
So do we not need sources anymore?

also, i dont thin ki need to read it again. once was just fine for me. she is a spiteful woman. i have no problem with the criticism she has garnered for her beliefs.

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He didn't sabotage the economy, he only arranged its downfall. Do you hear yourself?

The book is a testament to selfishness, which, to a certain extent, we're all entitled to. But that's all it is. It's not a criticism of any mainstream thought. It's not a criticism of any actual policies. It's so far removed from reality and the rules of ACTUAL human society that it's not even useful as "science fiction," It's not all that important at all as a piece of literature, but the douchebag fanboys of the world will make you think that it's God's greatest gift to mankind, Jesus-be-damned.

Like I've said before: in recognizing what the Honda Civic is, I can appreciate it, though it's not my favorite. In seeing what Honda Civic drivers do to it, I want, in my very core, to see every last one scrapped, owner still inside.

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All assessments that you cannot make until you have read the book yourself. Come back to me when you've read it and I might accept your critique.

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Sorry I pulled that from another thread from a few weeks ago, and forgot to type the source in. Criticize her all you like, but dont misrepresent the book because you dont like the author. That review was completely asinine, its as if he reviewed a version of the book that he wished it to be, as if he wanted to argue certain points so he made the book out to be the opposition of his points, even though the reality didnt fit. Thats typical leftist criticism though, not usually founded in reality.

And just so you dont blame me for a hand-wave with my last comment:
IBCoupe wrote: He didn't sabotage the economy, he only arranged its downfall. Do you hear yourself?
Thats just it, he didnt arrange its downfall either. The society in the book believed that the producers were unimportant, were not needed. That they stepped away left the society to continue to flourish if it could, it couldnt. But that was not an arranged downfall.
IBCoupe wrote: The book is a testament to selfishness, which, to a certain extent, we're all entitled to. But that's all it is. It's not a criticism of any mainstream thought. It's not a criticism of any actual policies. It's so far removed from reality and the rules of ACTUAL human society that it's not even useful as "science fiction," It's not all that important at all as a piece of literature, but the douchebag fanboys of the world will make you think that it's God's greatest gift to mankind, Jesus-be-damned.
Whats wrong with selfishness? Does it not exist? Do the left exist without it? Do the sanctioned looters not loot for a selfish constituency? Selfishness is the nature of man, this is why property rights and liberty should be respected above all else. When you allow selfishness to begin to abridge liberties, and look the other way, so begins the downfall. No the book does not address any specific policies of reality, it creates its own policies, policies that are exaggerated versions of policies we've already seen. Bank nationalization, corporate bail-outs, required merger authorizations, yes the government is very much a "governor" of the free market, throttling back any potential it may carry. And you are wrong to say that the book does not address mainstream thought. In her day, perhaps it didnt, but the thought processes present in the book are much more prevalent today.
IBcoupe wrote: Like I've said before: in recognizing what the Honda Civic is, I can appreciate it, though it's not my favorite. In seeing what Honda Civic drivers do to it, I want, in my very core, to see every last one scrapped, owner still inside.
I can appreciate the "general welfare" clause too. But seeing what people do with it these days makes me want to scrap it too.

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stebo0728 wrote:Sorry I pulled that from another thread from a few weeks ago, and forgot to type the source in. Criticize her all you like, but dont misrepresent the book because you dont like the author. That review was completely asinine, its as if he reviewed a version of the book that he wished it to be, as if he wanted to argue certain points so he made the book out to be the opposition of his points, even though the reality didnt fit.
Kinda what happens when you satirize three books (especially by completely fabricating the second of them) and condense it into a page and a half.
stebo0728 wrote:Thats typical leftist criticism though, not usually founded in reality.
What a worthless piece of s*** you are.
stebo0728 wrote:Thats just it, he didnt arrange its downfall either. The society in the book believed that the producers were unimportant, were not needed. That they stepped away left the society to continue to flourish if it could, it couldnt. But that was not an arranged downfall.
Weren't you the one pointing to The Blaze and some former SEIU official as plotting the downfall of the economy by organizing protests? Your guy pulled it off.
stebo0728 wrote:
IBCoupe wrote:The book is a testament to selfishness, which, to a certain extent, we're all entitled to. But that's all it is. It's not a criticism of any mainstream thought. It's not a criticism of any actual policies. It's so far removed from reality and the rules of ACTUAL human society that it's not even useful as "science fiction," It's not all that important at all as a piece of literature, but the douchebag fanboys of the world will make you think that it's God's greatest gift to mankind, Jesus-be-damned.
Whats wrong with selfishness? Does it not exist? Do the left exist without it? Do the sanctioned looters not loot for a selfish constituency? Selfishness is the nature of man, this is why property rights and liberty should be respected above all else. When you allow selfishness to begin to abridge liberties, and look the other way, so begins the downfall. No the book does not address any specific policies of reality, it creates its own policies, policies that are exaggerated versions of policies we've already seen. Bank nationalization, corporate bail-outs, required merger authorizations, yes the government is very much a "governor" of the free market, throttling back any potential it may carry. And you are wrong to say that the book does not address mainstream thought. In her day, perhaps it didnt, but the thought processes present in the book are much more prevalent today.
Re: selfishness, way to miss the damned point. Way to ignore half of the sentence you're responding to. What the f***, Stebo?

And that's a huge stretch to go and equivocate banking and anti-trust regulations with the absurdist caricatures in Atlas Shrugged. You have to be a special brand of libertarian fluffer to buy that crap.
stebo0728 wrote:
IBcoupe wrote:Like I've said before: in recognizing what the Honda Civic is, I can appreciate it, though it's not my favorite. In seeing what Honda Civic drivers do to it, I want, in my very core, to see every last one scrapped, owner still inside.
I can appreciate the "general welfare" clause too. But seeing what people do with it these days makes me want to scrap it too.
Great, when you're done playing tit-for-tat, let me know.

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IBCoupe wrote: Kinda what happens when you satirize three books (especially by completely fabricating the second of them) and condense it into a page and a half.
Great so next time post an actual review rather than some other piece of rival fiction.
IBCoupe wrote: What a worthless piece of s*** you are.
Thanks, im proof that turds can be polished.
IBCoupe wrote: Weren't you the one pointing to The Blaze and some former SEIU official as plotting the downfall of the economy by organizing protests? Your guy pulled it off.
Nope wasnt me, cant speak to that. I doubt any one small group or faction could pull off what was done in the book, mostly because the upper class are pretty much acclimated and complacent in their servitude to the lower and middle classes.
IBCoupe wrote: Re: selfishness, way to miss the damned point. Way to ignore half of the sentence you're responding to. What the f***, Stebo?
I didnt ignore anything, maybe you cant bring yourself to attribute my response to your comment, i dunno.
IBCoupe wrote: And that's a huge stretch to go and equivocate banking and anti-trust regulations with the absurdist caricatures in Atlas Shrugged. You have to be a special brand of libertarian fluffer to buy that crap.
I drew an equivalence in type, not in magnitude. I've already admitted that the book was fiction, and that the measures taken by the government in question were more dangerously progressive than we'd currently have the stomach for, BUT, the type is the same. Government interference in the private sector.
IBcoupe wrote: Great, when you're done playing tit-for-tat, let me know.
U mad bro?

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Re: Rival Fiction

I did.


Re: Complacent Servitude

Also, maybe because society isn't reliant on an elite few, the central assumption in Rand's drug-fueled rantings.


Re: Type of Government Action

ALL GOVERNMENT ACTION INTERFERES WITH THE FREE MARKET, YOU WACKO. THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY GOOD ABOUT A FREE MARKET. THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY EFFICIENT IN A FREE MARKET. THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY JUST IN A FREE MARKET. ABANDON THE IDOL WORSHIP.


Re: Mad

I don't like seeing a friend be drawn into an infantile, myopic rant of an ideology. Friends don't let friends become fundamentalist libertarians.

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IBCoupe wrote: I did.
Didnt seem to me as such, but I wont qwibble.
IBCoupe wrote: Also, maybe because society isn't reliant on an elite few, the central assumption in Rand's drug-fueled rantings.
Well with 6 billion people, I guess the upper 1% are a slightly more than a few.
IBCoupe wrote: ALL GOVERNMENT ACTION INTERFERES WITH THE FREE MARKET, YOU WACKO. THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY GOOD ABOUT A FREE MARKET. THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY EFFICIENT IN A FREE MARKET. THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY JUST IN A FREE MARKET. ABANDON THE IDOL WORSHIP.
I completely reject every premise in the statement above. Perhaps a pure free market is not the way to go, but government micro-management isn't working either.
IBCoupe wrote: I don't like seeing a friend be drawn into an infantile, myopic rant of an ideology. Friends don't let friends become fundamentalist libertarians.
I appreciate that. Can we not have an aspiration that will never fully be realized? I happen to believe that extremely limited federal government, with consumption based taxation, with no controls over the market whatsoever just might work. Will we ever get there? Probably not. And that doesn't close my mind to settling somewhere in the middle, but with an ideology set in stone, doing everything within reason to gravitate the discussion closer to your position is to be expected, I would even say I'd respect someone's intentions less if they didnt do so.

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Indeed.

Centralized government micro-management failed the USSR badly - as one obvious example. Roumania, Albania, etc., are others.

My visit to the USSR in 1991 - shortly after Gorbachev started the Glasnost effort - showed the older outcomes pretty clearly. Even some of the political leader of the city of Moscow - who I met - expressed frustration with the old system as unworkable as a whole.

Z

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Maybe a better book to read would be Animal Farm, The Moon is Down, Nineteen Eighty Four or Fahrenheit 451.

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Stebo,
No. From what I can tell, the things you don't like about government have nothing to do with government, per se. What you don't like is a centralized power telling others what to do, it looks to me.

No controls over the markets whatsoever means burning rivers, monopolies, and centralized corporate powers telling us what to do. You weren't this crazy before Atlas Shrugged, and that you are now suggests that maybe I've got the Honda Civic thing backwards. You, sir, are the Civic. Ayn Rand is the ricer. She has ruined a perfectly good brain in her attempt to make it "better." She's like L. Ron Hubbard.

For example: you think there's government micromanagement going on. Where? In what aspect of your life has government done all of your thinking? Where is it that you can put yourself on autopilot for even a portion of your day?


Z,
I'm pretty sure what was wrong with the USSR was the fact that (a) they put more faith in government than in common sense, (b) the government was corrupt, and (c) they threw all their resources into an arms race they couldn't afford to win.


Bud,
Never actually read those. Not even the SparksNotes of them. But I don't see anybody turning those into the basis of a religious fervor, so you might be right.

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The people of the USSR did not "put" more faith into a government - they were not given a choice in the matter ... for many many decades - over multiple generations. Quite a different situation.

You have to read Animal Farm and Fahrenheit 451, please! I don't know the third one though.

My 12 year old son just finished Animal Farm last month and did a thorough analysis of it for his English class - it is a brilliant satirical work. Right now, he is reading Fahrenheit 451 for the same class. I am very pleased that his teacher has assigned these as reading material!

Z

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I'm familiar with both of them, but at this point, it's doubtful I'll have an opportunity to read them.

And re: the USSR - I'm not sure I meant "the residents" of the USSR when I said, "they," but it's a fair point.


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