I’m drawing a complete blank believing our dear glorified Datsun dealers would stoop to outrageous overcharging -
Case in point - Just changed the Autocrap plugs to NGKs (Thanks NICOites !), plus fuel and gas filters and oil change in about 2 hours - I recall a recent thread saying 3 to 5 hours by the book - WTF ? ? ?
This was the first dive under the hood, so absolutly no advance knowledge of needed tricks - good thing it was perfectly straight forward job - the point being it was a very simple job w/no knowledge needed other then very basic mechanical skills and yet it appears that the book time per the Dealers is ludicrously over-inflated.
I’m sure a Master Tech could easily drop in 8 plugs in under an hour based on how simple the job was. Are we getting the shaft via the book time on plugs or is this an anomaly that lets the dealers make up for losing time on more extensive repairs elsewhere in the shop - Hell, The T3 numbers say they could be halfway through on a chain-guide replacement as well as completing the plug change all on the book time for just a plug change -
Can we get a discussion started on what real time has been verses what book time quotes appear to be -
Another case was a $473 quote to repair the Tension Rods - yup, they were gonna drop in new rods - Reality check - two $14 bushings (ya just gotta LOVE Joe), then 15/20 minutes per side to R & R the rods - INCLUDING pushing in the new bearings - are we just getting lucky or am I discerning a very distinct, and very smelly pattern here ?
Modified by msscomm at 4:41 PM 9/6/2004
Are the "Book Hours" Completely Whacked ? ? ?
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greg_atlanta
- Posts: 1111
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- Car: 2008 G35 Journey Sedan, silver/black (no sunroof), 1992 Q45 (in a past life)
I think it has less to do with the brand and more to do with a system/industry that is easy to take advantage of.
"Book time" is literally from published sources, accepted and used by the auto and insurance industries to give quick estimates for job cost. Guess who authors these sources? Longtime (often retired) industry people of course, who likely have a vested interest in seeing more money flow into their (former) industry. And if 2 competing books have different times listed, guess which one will be more popular (purchased) at Pep Boys stores? The one that lists the higher time of course. This system works wonderfully well, since shops can just point to an official 3rd-party book and say, "we're not overcharging you, that's standard book time". I have no idea who oversees these sources, but it's difficult to argue that a spark plug job on a Q doesn't take 5 hours if you do it "properly". E.g., do you use a torque wrench/angleometer on every plug and screw, blow out each hole prior to removing the plug, inspect and record appearance of each plug, place anti-seize on all threads, etc etc. I doubt most shops take 5 hours or do everything they should, but they won't have a problem justifying the bill. No one will argue that a more efficient tech shouldn't get paid more, but the problem is that he might only be more efficient than the wrench-wielding retard the authors had in mind when they figured out all those book-time numbers.
"Book time" is literally from published sources, accepted and used by the auto and insurance industries to give quick estimates for job cost. Guess who authors these sources? Longtime (often retired) industry people of course, who likely have a vested interest in seeing more money flow into their (former) industry. And if 2 competing books have different times listed, guess which one will be more popular (purchased) at Pep Boys stores? The one that lists the higher time of course. This system works wonderfully well, since shops can just point to an official 3rd-party book and say, "we're not overcharging you, that's standard book time". I have no idea who oversees these sources, but it's difficult to argue that a spark plug job on a Q doesn't take 5 hours if you do it "properly". E.g., do you use a torque wrench/angleometer on every plug and screw, blow out each hole prior to removing the plug, inspect and record appearance of each plug, place anti-seize on all threads, etc etc. I doubt most shops take 5 hours or do everything they should, but they won't have a problem justifying the bill. No one will argue that a more efficient tech shouldn't get paid more, but the problem is that he might only be more efficient than the wrench-wielding retard the authors had in mind when they figured out all those book-time numbers.
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Generally the best technican with $25,000 worth of tools [every time saving gadget know to man specialized for each job can do 12 hours of book time in a full 8 hour shift [they are on site for 10 hours] 8AM-6PM.The book time assumes no air asssisted tools, everything hand done .
Warrranty hours paid by the factory [roughly what the finest most efficient technican on earth could do if he was under extreme pressiure to finish with little care or quality control] are less than customer paid hours.
Warrranty hours paid by the factory [roughly what the finest most efficient technican on earth could do if he was under extreme pressiure to finish with little care or quality control] are less than customer paid hours.