Are Republicans finally facing reality?

[telcoman]

Seems like perhaps they are finally getting the message

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011 ... e-plan/?hp

It sure is about time because they are going to have to learn to play nice with President Obama at least till 2016

Telcoman

[stebo0728]

[stebo0728]

Buggers, didnt work right, pic is too small

[telcoman]

I still got a chuckle

Nice try

keep trying till u get it right

Then you can explain to me how you did it

[ForkliftDude]

Medicare, Medicade, and social security NEED to be redone. If they arent, we are just delaying the ending, not avoiding it. Failure to do what needs to be done is simply saying "we have no guts, so we will just let the next guys deal with it in 4 years"... which is exactly how we got here to begin with.

Obama and the entire democratic party are a joke now. They flip flop on every issue, have no real spine to mention, and insist on "staying the course" on all social issues...all in the face of WE ARE FREAKING BROKE, WHAT DONT YOU GET ABOUT THAT?

If you really think Obama is going to be reelected in 2012, against ANYONE, you are very wrong. They man has lower approval ratings that Bush JR, Bush SR, and Carter in nearly all areas. Obama will easily be remembered as the single worst President the US has had in 100+ years. I mean come on. The 2 major "accomplishments" he has, Obama has managed to screw up (health care and Osama)... It is as if he wakes up in the morning as says "how can I screw over middle America even worse"

Oh I know, by suggesting we tax cars based on miles driven a year. (google it, its all over the place today) He is more out of touch with America than Pelosi is.

[IBCoupe]

Medicare, Medicade, and social security NEED to be redone. If they arent, we are just delaying the ending, not avoiding it. Failure to do what needs to be done is simply saying "we have no guts, so we will just let the next guys deal with it in 4 years"... which is exactly how we got here to begin with.

Obama and the entire democratic party are a joke now. They flip flop on every issue, have no real spine to mention, and insist on "staying the course" on all social issues...all in the face of WE ARE FREAKING BROKE, WHAT DONT YOU GET ABOUT THAT?

If you really think Obama is going to be reelected in 2012, against ANYONE, you are very wrong. They man has lower approval ratings that Bush JR, Bush SR, and Carter in nearly all areas. Obama will easily be remembered as the single worst President the US has had in 100+ years. I mean come on. The 2 major "accomplishments" he has, Obama has managed to screw up (health care and Osama)... It is as if he wakes up in the morning as says "how can I screw over middle America even worse"

Oh I know, by suggesting we tax cars based on miles driven a year. (google it, its all over the place today) He is more out of touch with America than Pelosi is.

Meanwhile, in Republicanland, House Speaker John Boehner is busy crafting bills that will reform the tax code and eliminate barriers to much needed job growth!

Just kidding; they're trying to make it harder for women to get abortions.

In a 251 to 175 vote, the House of Representatives yesterday passed a sweeping anti-abortion bill. In addition to renewing guidelines of the 1976 Hyde Amendment banning taxpayer funding of abortion, the legislation would also eliminate any tax credits for businesses whose health insurance covers abortion, regardless of whether or not an individual uses the service. The bill would also prevent individuals from receiving tax deductions for the cost of an abortion when itemizing health expenses on their taxes, or from using a tax-exempt savings account to pay for the procedure. Opponents of the bill say it amounts to a tax increase on small businesses and distracts from the narrow focus GOP lawmakers should keep on the budget and spending issues, while proponents say it undoubtedly saves lives. The so-called “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act” (the same bill that turned heads when it originally tried to replace the legal exception for rape with an exception for forcible rape) passed along party lines and stands little chance of passing...

http://www.scpr.org/programs/patt-morri ... house-pas/

[telcoman]

I'm wondering when the House will be finally getting to the jobs issue?

Perhaps when the dems take control back

[IBCoupe]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ut2jXea ... r_embedded[/youtube]

At 1:37:

Don't let anyone who supports this bill ever say to you, "I'm for less government regulation. Oh, there's too much government regulation." You gotta be kidding. You can't vote for this thing, and then say you're for less government regulation. This is the mother of all government regulations. This is the regulation of an individual woman in a room with her doctor, and Congressman Pitts, apparently.

Also, stick around for the end of the video. Like waiting 'til after the credits at Fast Five, there's something worth seeing after Weiner's speech.

[AppleBonker]

"It doesn't sound terribly enticing. No."

My girlfriend looked at me funny cause I laughed so hard.

[IBCoupe]

[stebo0728]

Simple, I hit print screen, opened photoshop, made a new image, pasted, flipped it vertically, then saved and posted it

The forum must be set to limit image width, therefore it got shrunk, oh well

[bigbadberry3]

At 1:37:

Don't let anyone who supports this bill ever say to you, "I'm for less government regulation. Oh, there's too much government regulation." You gotta be kidding. You can't vote for this thing, and then say you're for less government regulation. This is the mother of all government regulations. This is the regulation of an individual woman in a room with her doctor, and Congressman Pitts, apparently.

.

[telcoman]

Simple, I hit print screen, opened photoshop, made a new image, pasted, flipped it vertically, then saved and posted it

The forum must be set to limit image width, therefore it got shrunk, oh well

Thanks! I'll have to try to learn photoshop
I'm old.
I still know how to thread tape on a reel to reel tape recorder

And yes there are size limits on signature

Now back to bashing the right

[R/T Hemi]

The reality of the matter is no politician will touch SS or MC. The seniors are the most likely to vote. AARP has already started advertising their opposition to any cuts to either program. Save SS, just remove the cap on income subject to SS, that will be a big start.

telcoman. I have to agree. It's going to take some big screw ups on the part of Obama, and some terrific Republican candidates in 2012 to upset Obama's terms. I think the OBL matter proved Obama is thoughtful and stern in the face of tough decisions. Had the raid gone sideways like the one in Iran did (the embassy hostages), he'd have had the same problems to overcome Carter did.

[telcoman]

The reality of the matter is no politician will touch SS or MC. The seniors are the most likely to vote. AARP has already started advertising their opposition to any cuts to either program. Save SS, just remove the cap on income subject to SS, that will be a big start.

telcoman. I have to agree. It's going to take some big screw ups on the part of Obama, and some terrific Republican candidates in 2012 to upset Obama's terms. I think the OBL matter proved Obama is thoughtful and stern in the face of tough decisions. Had the raid gone sideways like the one in Iran did (the embassy hostages), he'd have had the same problems to overcome Carter did.

You are correct! President Carter tried to rescue the Iranian hostages and tings went terribly wrong. JFK tried at The Bay of Pigs and things went terribly wrong. Obama tested out the seals with the Somalian pirates and succeeded.
He initiated the hunt for Bin Laden shortly after taking office whereas GWB gave up.
Although Obama was sharply critizied for not having enough commander in chief experience by the right he has already proved his decision making. He surrounds himself with smart people and listens to all options.
The right has been flinging all kinds of s$it at him for years hoping something would stick. Remember Bill Ayres, his birth, his education, and blah blah blah and on and on.

Yup it was Chuck Berry that had a tune "you can't catch me"

For those too young to remember that is Alan Freed doing the introduction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8-NqsY46PY

Telcoman

[ForkliftDude]

Wait, Obama making good decisions? How about pissing off Israel, one of our longest, time tested friends? ... in hopes of pleasing who? Oh thats right, the Palastinians, the people even the UN refuses to recognize.

He even managed to screw up the OBL thing. Half the world is pissed that the US just outright killed him instead of even attempting to capture him, and the other half of the world is pissed that Obama is no refusing to release any information or proof of his death... who wants to make a bet he will release it sometime around September or October of 2012? The only people pleased are Obama's core support base, which are happy at everything he does.

Sadly however I fear that SS, Medicare and Medicade will not be fixed. The Republicans wont touch it because their base is older, and hence, they would lose their core support. The only hope of getting real reform is to elect people not tied to a party base, such as the tea party.

What needs to happen is someone get into office, tell it how it is, and do it, reguardless of who elected them, what people want, etc. Someone needs to sit America down and simply say "enough is enough". America as a whole needs a giant intervention. Entitlements need to end (Look at Spain, Portugal, and the others in Europe who have been bankrupted by pandering to the whims of its public) The never ending spending on things that are no business of government needs to end.

Government should defend the country, provide infrastructure to facilitate an economy, and provide police and fire protection to its people... It should not be telling me what I can and can not do with my life, my land, what products I do and dont want, or even what I do and dont want to see and hear (Looking at you Canada)

To end it, I will leave two quotes

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” - Patric Henry

"Every step we take toward making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Government should be unseen, unheard, and unfelt by the general public. The mere fact that the discussion of "health care" is an issue proves the fact that the US government has grown so large, and done so well at brainwashing the sheep that we are now accepting things that 100 years ago would have been unthinkable. The US is slowly moving toward European Socialism (and has been for the better part of 50 years) and we are losing exactly what it is that made America special and unique.

[heliochrome85]

Wait, Obama making good decisions? How about pissing off Israel, one of our longest, time tested friends? ... in hopes of pleasing who? Oh thats right, the Palastinians, the people even the UN refuses to recognize.

He even managed to screw up the OBL thing. Half the world is pissed that the US just outright killed him instead of even attempting to capture him, and the other half of the world is pissed that Obama is no refusing to release any information or proof of his death... who wants to make a bet he will release it sometime around September or October of 2012? The only people pleased are Obama's core support base, which are happy at everything he does.

Sadly however I fear that SS, Medicare and Medicade will not be fixed. The Republicans wont touch it because their base is older, and hence, they would lose their core support. The only hope of getting real reform is to elect people not tied to a party base, such as the tea party.

What needs to happen is someone get into office, tell it how it is, and do it, reguardless of who elected them, what people want, etc. Someone needs to sit America down and simply say "enough is enough". America as a whole needs a giant intervention. Entitlements need to end (Look at Spain, Portugal, and the others in Europe who have been bankrupted by pandering to the whims of its public) The never ending spending on things that are no business of government needs to end.

Government should defend the country, provide infrastructure to facilitate an economy, and provide police and fire protection to its people... It should not be telling me what I can and can not do with my life, my land, what products I do and dont want, or even what I do and dont want to see and hear (Looking at you Canada)

To end it, I will leave two quotes

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” - Patric Henry

"Every step we take toward making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Government should be unseen, unheard, and unfelt by the general public. The mere fact that the discussion of "health care" is an issue proves the fact that the US government has grown so large, and done so well at brainwashing the sheep that we are now accepting things that 100 years ago would have been unthinkable. The US is slowly moving toward European Socialism (and has been for the better part of 50 years) and we are losing exactly what it is that made America special and unique.

dont drown in that pool of derp. we need people to work at mcdonalds.

[HashiriyaS14]

WORDS WORDS WORDS

[ForkliftDude]

*goes back to reading tech forums*

I was unaware 4chan'ers were on real websites too.

Ill leave you all to your bleeding heart circle jerk

[AZhitman]

The reality of the matter is no politician will touch SS or MC. The seniors are the most likely to vote. AARP has already started advertising their opposition to any cuts to either program. Save SS, just remove the cap on income subject to SS, that will be a big start.

telcoman. I have to agree. It's going to take some big screw ups on the part of Obama, and some terrific Republican candidates in 2012 to upset Obama's terms. I think the OBL matter proved Obama is thoughtful and stern in the face of tough decisions. Had the raid gone sideways like the one in Iran did (the embassy hostages), he'd have had the same problems to overcome Carter did.

Can't say that I disagree with any of that.

[telcoman]

Wait, Obama making good decisions? How about pissing off Israel, one of our longest, time tested friends? ... in hopes of pleasing who? Oh thats right, the Palastinians, the people even the UN refuses to recognize.
.

So are you blaming Israel?

He even managed to screw up the OBL thing. Half the world is pissed that the US just outright killed him instead of even attempting to capture him, and the other half of the world is pissed that Obama is no refusing to release any information or proof of his death... who wants to make a bet he will release it sometime around September or October of 2012? The only people pleased are Obama's core support base, which are happy at everything he does.

He made taking out OBL his first priority shortly after taking office.
GWB said we are going to get the people who took down the WTC but FAILED!

Sadly however I fear that SS, Medicare and Medicade will not be fixed. The Republicans wont touch it because their base is older, and hence, they would lose their core support. The only hope of getting real reform is to elect people not tied to a party base, such as the tea party.

It can be easily fixed by just increasing the wage base above the present $106k and slowly increasing the full retirement age.

What needs to happen is someone get into office, tell it how it is, and do it, reguardless of who elected them, what people want, etc. Someone needs to sit America down and simply say "enough is enough". America as a whole needs a giant intervention. Entitlements need to end (Look at Spain, Portugal, and the others in Europe who have been bankrupted by pandering to the whims of its public) The never ending spending on things that are no business of government needs to end.

That is exactly how President Obama got elected. He explained the broken healthcare system and how if the present system continued it would bankrupt our nation. The affordable healthcare act that he pushed thru while not perfect is a start. Everyone needs to be covered and the profit motive taken away from overpaid healthcare CEO's getting rich while denying care to those that need it.

We all witnessed the collapsing financial system that GWB failed to properly manage. Obamas decision to bail out GM turned out to be the correct decision to save thousands of jobs.
His decision to go after the Somalai pirates and kill them was a trial run using seals before taking out OBL.
Another excellent decision that GWB failed to do.
How about giving the man some credit?

It is clear from your rant that you only get your information from right wing sources. Or are you unable to accept a black president like most of the tea party?

Go back to your forklift and have a nice day

Telcoman

[ForkliftDude]

So are you blaming Israel?

Certainly not. I am blaming the President, and Hilary Clinton for their childishly bad foreign policy decisions. Why did Obama basically spit in the face of Israel? In a misguided attempt at pandering to the Islamic hoards.

Going further on the foreign policy decisions... screwed over Poland and other NATO countries in favor of a feel good meeting with Russia over the ballistic missile shield in eastern Europe. The lies over Lybia... "no ground troops", oh look at that, we will just use the CIA to train the rebels instead (anyone remember Afghanistan in the 80's? How well did that work out for us?)... But Syria doesnt need any type of help at all... they are fine on their own. (resource poor countries dont need help) Seriously, good some of the reactions from foreign governments on some of these topics. My fav was the French envoy referring to Clinton and Obama's foreign relations as "amateur night"

It can be easily fixed by just increasing the wage base above the present $106k and slowly increasing the full retirement age.

The retirement age is currently 65. What is the average American lifespan? 77 years (CDC) So lets just up the retirement age to something like, say, 70. That will fix a lot since a giant chunk of people will die before ever retiring anyway. (while the average is 77 years, many grounds such as African Americans, Police Officers, and some other high stress jobs, can lower the life expectancy by up to 10 years.) Great, we will just fix an unsustainable system by making sure large portions of the population will just never get to draw any money from it.

I have a better question though... Why exactly is Government in the business of providing a retirement fund for private citizens in the first place? How about we save for our own retirement and stop milking the omnipotent teat of the Government? You are defending a broken system and a bad idea that came out of the depression era New Deal scheme. IE, the New Deal took 80 years, but its chickens are now coming home to roost.

I wont even touch the health care issue.... but I am sure my feelings are clear. If you want something, buy it. Dont expect it for free. If you cant afford something, you dont get it. Its very simple. I still have no idea why, or how it is people accept, government regulating very basic every day aspects of the private citizen's life. Read that quote by Eisenhower again... You may be comfortable with the Government becoming your Master, but I am certainly not.

Obamas decision to bail out GM turned out to be the correct decision to save thousands of jobs.

mmm hmmm. Lets give billions of dollars of public money to a failing private company. That sounds like the business government should be in. Or how about Fannie/FreddieMac showing a 5.5 billion dollar loss for Q1 11... What do they want now? Oh thats right, another multi billion dollar hand out. Its like giving change to a guy at the air port.... 2 seconds later you now have 3 more guys asking for change... and here comes the first guy again with a cup of coffee. Now he wants a donut too.

His decision to go after the Somalai pirates and kill them was a trial run using seals before taking out OBL.

You mean he finally got to play with all the cool little buttons in the oval office.

How about giving the man some credit?

I would love to. I was so excited that OBL had finally been killed... but 2 days later, amateur night started again and the promised videos and pictures are suddenly "too graphic for the American people to see". You want graphic? How about Americans jumping out of the WTC and splattering on the concrete on national TV? How about body parts laying on the street in New York? Thats horrible, but OBL brain splattered all over a wall is too much?

It just goes to show that even something that he has done right... he figures out a way to screw it up. Except now it isnt even transparent. It is obvious those pictures and video will come out... just in time for the election next year. So why all the pussyfooting? He knew eventually his birth certificate would be released, so why fight it for 3 years? He knows the OBL pictures will be released, and by himself, so why all the "we dont spike the football" crap? We killed a monster, spiking the football should be the start of the party.

Or are you unable to accept a black president like most of the tea party?

His color isnt the problem. He would suck just as bad if he was green, purple, or teal. His policies, agenda, and general "I am going to run the country like the Illinois Senate" theory is the problem. His connections to shady characters, his dithering on every subject, and the fact that he can not ever seem to make a firm decision NOW is the problem.

Most President's get around this by surrounding themselves with amazing aids, great advisors, and the cream of the crop military men... Obama surrounded himself with left wing radicals from think tanks, tenured professors, and people who have generally never lived a real day of life outside their carefully constructed idealistic walls.

I could keep going but there is a character limit for this forum and entire books could be written on the subject.

And BTW I am not a random Neocon either. Dubya was not my lord and savior and Chaney was just a 1 term VP with poor trigger discipline. A spade is a spade regardless of what branch of the same party he is a part of. The US hasnt had a good President in 20+ years. Bush SR was a liar, Clinton was a pervert and just happened to be President during the largest wealth expansion in US history, Dubya was a idiot. An idiot with a spine and some convictions, but an idiot non the less. Obama is simply an idealistic nit whit with no spine, questionable convictions, and just generally not leadership material. He can write nice speeches that make everyone all warm and cozy inside, but past the surface his entire self image is a hollow sham of a man

[HashiriyaS14]

the fact that he can not ever seem to make a firm decision NOW is the problem.

He seems to have firmly decided to shoot UBL in the head, same with the Somali pirates.

Quick decision-making is not all that important to running countries, it's just important to public image when one wishes to be re-elected. Obama has a perception problem, he doesn't have a decision-making problem, regardless of what anyone thinks of his actual decisions.

He didn't "fight" the birth cert, he released the document from day 1, the same document everyone else in Hawaii gets. This is the only document that was ever required. The ONLY reason he released the long-form was because it was an opportunity to make Trump look good, and Obama wants Trump (or someone like him) to be the GOP nominee.



LOL @ "amazing aids"

[IBCoupe]

Why did Obama basically spit in the face of Israel?

When did this happen?

Going further on the foreign policy decisions... screwed over Poland and other NATO countries in favor of a feel good meeting with Russia over the ballistic missile shield in eastern Europe.

Not Russia's ballistic missiles that Poland has to worry about.

The retirement age is currently 65. What is the average American lifespan? 77 years (CDC) So lets just up the retirement age to something like, say, 70. That will fix a lot since a giant chunk of people will die before ever retiring anyway. (while the average is 77 years, many grounds such as African Americans, Police Officers, and some other high stress jobs, can lower the life expectancy by up to 10 years.) Great, we will just fix an unsustainable system by making sure large portions of the population will just never get to draw any money from it.

Your posts read like you've had five cups of coffee. Anybody ever tell you that?

I have a better question though... Why exactly is Government in the business of providing a retirement fund for private citizens in the first place?

Because we were tired of "old = broke."

How about we save for our own retirement and stop milking the omnipotent teat of the Government?

When has that ever worked for any society? Hm? What society on Earth has existed without a subsidized retirement where old people didn't worry about starving?

If you cant afford something, you dont get it.

This apply to emergency room treatment, too?

Its very simple. I still have no idea why, or how it is people accept, government regulating very basic every day aspects of the private citizen's life.

'Cause, as it turns out, some people don't mind helping their neighbors with their tax dollars. Maybe you do mind. That's okay, but do you at least have an idea, now?

mmm hmmm. Lets give billions of dollars of public money to a failing private company. That sounds like the business government should be in. Or how about Fannie/FreddieMac showing a 5.5 billion dollar loss for Q1 11... What do they want now? Oh thats right, another multi billion dollar hand out.

See, there's this economic system here, where just about everything ties into everything else. You can probably let a few itty-bitty players crumble without the system feeling it much. It's like your car. It'd still work when the mirrors fall off. But when the radiator falls off... well, then there's problems, right? Our economy blew a head-gasket. That's expensive. We could let the old car die, and spend a ton of money getting a new one, or we could fix it for a bunch of money now, and probably save out in the long run.

That's the kind of business the government should be in. If nothing else, the government should be in the business of making sure that our country doesn't collapse.

Its like giving change to a guy at the air port.... 2 seconds later you now have 3 more guys asking for change... and here comes the first guy again with a cup of coffee. Now he wants a donut too.

I just saw that episode of South Park.

I would love to. I was so excited that OBL had finally been killed... but 2 days later, amateur night started again and the promised videos and pictures are suddenly "too graphic for the American people to see". You want graphic? How about Americans jumping out of the WTC and splattering on the concrete on national TV? How about body parts laying on the street in New York? Thats horrible, but OBL brain splattered all over a wall is too much?

There were promised videos and pictures? When were they promised? Is the TV talking to you again?

He knew eventually his birth certificate would be released, so why fight it for 3 years?

Are you trolling? He released it in June of 2008. Where have you been?

Most President's get around this by surrounding themselves with amazing aids, great advisors, and the cream of the crop military men... Obama surrounded himself with left wing radicals from think tanks, tenured professors, and people who have generally never lived a real day of life outside their carefully constructed idealistic walls.

[citation needed]

[IBCoupe]

LOL @ "amazing aids"

I'm not just sure; I'm HIV positive.

[telcoman]

The retirement age is currently 65.

Wrong!
Only if you were born prior to 1938
For those born after 1960 full retirement age is 67

[BusyBadger]

The retirement age is currently 65.

Wrong!
Only if you were born prior to 1938
For those born after 1960 full retirement age is 67

Wait...what? When did you start caring about facts?

[stebo0728]

Because we were tired of "old = broke."

Then start saving for your own retirement, show a bit of personal responsibility. I understand the old folks now wanting to get their "investment" back, as they should. But what makes the government think they are in any better or smarter position to "invest" our retirement money than we are ourselves? Thats the essence of individualism. But you also have to be able to watch those who dont take responsibility for themselves face the consequences, not jump to their rescue with other people's money. Let private charity, those who give their money WILLINGLY come to their aid, not the money forced from the hands of others.

[IBCoupe]

Then start saving for your own retirement, show a bit of personal responsibility.

Right. We tried that for a while, and now we have social security instead. I understand that's your ideal, but that's not a really convincing argument.

We have Social Security for a reason: the method you're suggesting wasn't working. Going back to the old method really isn't a viable alternative, evidenced by the fact that we opted for Social Security instead.

This whole individualism thing with the "let the failures fail" works great right up until the point where the rotting carcases of society's failures start spreading disease, and frozen pipes begin to burst because it was better to pay for food than it was to pay for hot water. Eventually, Stebo, you're going to have to confront the fact that we are all pretty well connected to one another in society, and it takes quite a bit of effort to be a hermit.

[stebo0728]

Then let society gravitate toward socialist policies in the private sector, see if that happens. The market would conform to that model if it were the tenable solution. Its not. Stop using the force of government to push solutions that arent tenable. If it takes force to make it work, its not going to work long term.