Are publishers really this clueless?

[MinisterofDOOM]

Sega has recently reported their dismay at what they view as poor sales for Mature rated Wii games. They even go so far as to express confusion at the fact that they did research which indicated there's a strong market for Mature games on the Wii, but sales of their own titles, plus others like Dead Space Extraction don't match that research.

It's really, REALLY simple. Listen closely Sega (and EA, and Capcom, because you're both guilty as hell, too):

There's only a market for GOOD Mature-rated games on the Wii. It does NOT Get any simpler than that. Nearly every Mature-rated game for the Wii is a steaming pile of pigs***. Most of them are on-rails shooters that NO ONE EVER WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Stop making GARBAGE and maybe your games will sell.

It's a pretty basic concept to think that adult gamers will have more selective taste. Just because we like seeing gore and severing virtual limbs doesn't mean we can't tell the difference between a good game and a bad game. The Wii is the golden goose of sub-par IP cache-ins and kiddie games, but that easy-sell nature doesn't carry over to the adult world. We want quality titles, regardless of platform or ESRB rating. I'm not going to waste my money on House of the Dead: Overkill for hell's sake. The problem is not the rating, the problem is that the game is complete crap.And who wants to play Dead Space Extraction when they can play the REAL Dead Space on any of the other 3 major game platforms? Who wants to play Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles when there are real RE games for the friggin' Wii itself?!

Man, this is amazing. No wonder videogame quality is going down the s***ter. Publishers can't even tell the difference between people not buying a game because it sucks and people not buying a game because the rating is too adult.

I feel bad for the Wii. Poor little console has become the haven of crappy games and the confusion has gotten so bad no one even WANTS to make a good game for it anymore outside of Nintendo.

Here's the article that spawned this post, in case you're interested:http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Se....html

[RCA]

MoD you NEED to work in the industry, your thoughts on games are spot on more often than not. I am right there with you. But creating a new Mature game from scratch for the Wii that is awesome would be pretty tough because PC, Xbox and PS3 would be better off with them then the Wii. SO why develop them exclusively for the Wii?

If the game is good enough it will be available on the other systems and then it will go back to the "Why play it on Wii when I can play on PC" point.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, I'm sure that's the stance most devs take on Wii games, which is why Wii gets stuck with all the spinoffs. But it IS capable of doing great things. We just need a developer to step up and say "I'm going to make a great game, and it's going to be on the Wii." Not a "good game by Wii standards." A genuinely great game, that happens to be for the Wii. Metroid Prime 3 is a great example of the Wii's potential. Every aspect shines and despite the Wii's technical inferiority to the other two big consoles it looks beautiful. The Wii is practically BEGGING for a classic Quake style action shooter and a tense, atmospheric horror shooter. It kind of parallels the DS in that respect: the DS is absolutely perfect as an FPS platform, but no one has ever made a really good one for it.

I would LOVE to work in the games industry. Maybe someday. Hopefully before it falls apart completely.

[RCA]

The one developer that could afford to make a bada*s Wii exclusive would be Nintendo and so far all they know how to do is remake Super Marios

[BusyBadger]

The one developer that could afford to make a bada*s Wii exclusive would be Nintendo and so far all they know how to do is remake Super Marios

My biggest beef with Nintendo was that they never followed through on their promise to make games for their original audience as it grew older.

I'm not sure where I read/heard that but I know it was put out by Nintendo ages ago. Mario is fine and all but I'd boot up my Wii more often if there was something really worth playing on it.

With Bungie no longer tied to Halo anymore I'd love to see something from them put on the Wii. Eidos could make some interesting alterations to the upcoming Thief 4 using the sensor bar, a great shooter using the lightgun would be nice too - even better if it came with a quasi-realistic lightgun. The list potentially cool products is endless, as is the greed and low-quality control of many publishers now.

And yes MoD - they are that clueless.

[MinisterofDOOM]

That's exactly what I don't want to see: altered ports of "real" games modified for the Wii. Either give us the SAME GAME for the Wii or don't do it at all. I don't want games adapted to motion controls. Hell, I don't want motion controls AT ALL. Unless it's an FPS game, the Wiimote can bite me. The Wavebird is fully supported by the Wii, as is the Classic Controller. Those are superior to inaccurate flailing around.I don't want any lightgun bullcrap either. Use the Wiimote for accurate aiming please, but I have no need for plastic contraptions that force me into awkward positions while holding a controller.

As for Bungie...meh. They've never done anything outstanding in my book. I don't see them doing anything incredible with the Wii that any other random developer can't do. I'd rather see Gearbox go to work on the Wii than Bungie (even though I think their CEO is a whiny little girl). Gearbox are the guys, after all, who made the original Halo better. Plus they did a great job of porting HL to the PS2, which means they're good at working with technically weak consoles. And Gearbox has shown that they're more than a one-trick pony.

Retro Studios are the ones I have my eye on, though. They're the team that did the Metroid Prime games, and now they're supposedly working on something new (as in not Metroid). I honestly hope it's just PR CYA for another Prime game (Nintendo has confirmed there's more Prime on the way) but really anything from them is likely to be fantastic.

But you've got great stuff like Dimenium popping up on the DS. Where are all the random no-name developers trying new things on the Wii? Even if it doesn't really work well (like Dimentium) it might entice other developers to try to make that concept work their way.

Were I a developer, here's how the gaming landscape would look to me:PC and Wii are the strong uniques.PS360 sits there as the wannabe PC that you can just port s*** to. The vast majority of people who own those consoles can't tell a port from a wholely developed title anyway.The PC and the Wii are the platforms that stand out as unique as far as what they can do. So I'd gather my dev team around and figure out what we could do that would really change the future of games on those platforms. I've got tons of ideas for the Wii. It's too bad I don't have money to develop a game. I'd build the Wii game that'd be competing with PC and PS360 games on GOTY lists. No one would notice its sub-par graphics because they'd be too busy blown away by its awesome in every other area.

[packerjd04]

MoD did you listen to the 1up podcast that this link is referring to? I regularly listen to 1up because I enjoy it and the interview is pretty interesting.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Nah, I don't really listen to any podcasts except on the occasional whim.

[BusyBadger]

A lot to go over here but I'll just throw some stuff out that I was thinking about as I read (and re-read) your post.

1. If you get rid of the Wiimote/lightgun/senor bar what sets the Wii apart from the 'Big Two' consoles, apart from subpar graphics and a limited offereing of titles (though that's what we're addressing here) that is?

I do agree with the lack of precision and the contortions needed to sometimes get something accomplished on the Wii.

2. When I used the word alterations to a title/franchise I should have used the word iterations. The Big Two (both consoles and players) are so close to one another that I see no reason for a title to be vastly different on the two of them, but I think that the offerings on the Wii should not be the same game, but should have familiar elements and themes from popular franchises.

The only households I know that have a Wii as the solitary console aren't in the demographic we're talking about here. But in multi-console households it only stands to reason that a game should be different from on the Wii than on the other two. Part of the charm (for me and others I've talked to) in playing a sequel is seeing the familiar in a new light.

3. I specifically chose Bungie for a couple of reasons. First, there's not a gamer that doesn't know who they are and though you aren't wowed by anything they've done (more on this later) they don't produce crap. It's a name that stands up there with other top developers so it gets people (potential buyers) to take notice. They publicity from the name alone is pretty good and even without Microsoft the net would be on buzzing about what they were going to come out with. They also have enough money and notoriety to be picky with talent and demands. And let's not forget Microsoft, I don't know what the parting terms were but I can't imagine that Bungie wouldn't relish taking a shot (or two) at Microsoft, just for old times sake (I can imagine the in-game parodies of the Redmond Giants right now)

It seems we're on different sides of the Bungie - Gearbox teams. I feel the same way about Gearbox that you feel about Bungie...they've never wowed me. They put a bunch of strap-on stuff into Half-Life, ported Halo to the PC, they made their original Brothers In Arms (as original as a WWII shooter using the Unreal engine can be). I played Borderlands at a friends and I think I said, "meh." At least Bungie used their own in-house engine for Halo.

I'll come up with more later. But lately I've felt like the Wii is Nintendo doing an Electronic Arts imitation. EA does Madden, NCAA Football, Tiger Woods releases every year and it's all so SSDD. It feels the same way a proprietary Nintendo title comes out for the Wii. I can almost hear exec saying'"Slap Mario in the game so it'll sell." For me the best part about the Wii isn't the games, but the dashboard and what comes with it. Which is so contrary to my "Titles sell consoles" mantra.

[MinisterofDOOM]

1. If you get rid of the Wiimote/lightgun/senor bar what sets the Wii apart from the 'Big Two' consoles, apart from subpar graphics and a limited offereing of titles (though that's what we're addressing here) that is?

The sensor bar is awesome. Gun-shaped strap-on peripherals that make the wiimote/nunchuck hard to hold are NOT. Motion controls suck a**. Unless it's another stupid sports/athletics title, motion controls have nothing of value to add to a game.Take NSMB: Wii for example. Nintendo glued the spin-jump to motion controls rather than a real button. It is nearly gamebreaking in its awkwardness. Screw that. Forced motion controls (which is what any motion control is outside emulating actual athletic motions in actual athletic games) only detract from a game experience.Using the sensor bar for aiming or other purposes is good, as long as it is not also forced (as with star bits in SMG).

For me, the biggest appeal of a console game (over a PC game) is being able to sit back on the couch and relax while playing it. You can do that with the wavebird. You could also ALMOST do that with SMG, except that you had to constantly be pointing at the effing star bits.Or take Animal Crossing City Folk. This is a game that worked fine on the DS. But nintendo forced motion control into it. Ultra-simple controls, but not even the option to use the wiimote sideways or the classic controller/wavebird. You HAVE TO USE motion controls. They add nothing of value. Why are they there?

MP3 was made excellent by the sensorbar functionality. There are survival/horror games that use the wiimote as a flashlight. That kind of stuff is where the Wii's controls shine: mouse emulation on a console. It just has to be done right. And not involve plastic gun addons.

As far as franchise iteration...eh. I'd rather play an ORIGINAL game than a Wii "iteration" or adaptation. I don't want a dumbed down CoD for the Wii. Just give me a different game. Come up with something UNIQUE. Why does it have to be a version of a game already on another console? Just release something original for the Wii. That's what I'm saying. I don't want ports/iterations/adaptations/etc. I want a new, original, interesting title for the Wii. No "based on." No dumbing down. No spinoffs. All original.

Or, if we are going to have ports, how about we make with the classics? Where's my Half Life Platinum Pack for Wii with sensorbar support? That would rock, and sell like hotcakes. Where's the Quake trilogy for Wii? Where's Unreal for the Wii? Duke Nukem? Doom? Hexen? Holy crap, the list is endless. All games that don't depend on graphics, all games that stand to benefit from the Wii's control scheme, and all games that already have large followings. Not a CoD remake. I don't care about that crap even on the big two. THERE'S your SSDD EA bullcrap. New CoD every year. Screw that. Give me something I'll still be playing in 5 years. Or 10.

As is often observed: part of the genius of the original Star Wars trilogy came from doing what they could with what they had. That's actually a strength for the Wii. It's different enough from the other two that you can't just port a game straight across. So instead of trying to adapt the game AT ALL, just do something different with the Wii's capabilities in mind. It'll be Wii-only and that's the point. Who cares if the graphics are limited? What are the DS's strengths when you take away the touch screen? Nothing. Yet tons of FANTASTIC DS games exist that ignore the touch screen. You can just treat the Wii as another console and you're set. But you get the added benefit of not being able to just cut and paste content from the 360, which means you actually have to get CREATIVE. Something that 99% of PS360 games wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

[BusyBadger]

I want a new, original, interesting title for the Wii. No "based on." No dumbing down. No spinoffs. All original.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 RSV: "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun"

(which leads to...)

As is often observed: part of the genius of the original Star Wars trilogy came from doing what they could with what they had.

Yeah, The Hidden Fortress is a great story and it was old enough that the masses didn't know what it was. If only Lucas was smart enough to rip off other Kurosawa stuff the prequel trilogy, err...tragedy could have been good too. I would loved to have seen Lucas use Throne of Blood (which was inspired by "The Scottish Play") as a source for the prequels.

Yeah, off track, but I haven't slept in 22 hours...I'm getting ready to go fix that.

I'll probably have a Donkey Kong themed nightmare with Mario coming after me with a Wiimote & nunchuk instead of a wooden sledge.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Ecclesiastes 1:9 RSV: "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun"

There's plenty of originality to be found. You just have to find a developer (and publisher) who isn't such a freaking p**** that they'd rather just make another multiplayer xbox 360 shooter than actually come up with something worth buying. You can take an "old" concept and make it interesting with original ideas. It doesn't have to be ANOTHER space-marine-with-no-face-or-name-or-identity shooter. Look at games like No More Heroes or Professor Layton or Infinite Space. Original CONCEPTS? Maybe not. But original EXECUTION, definitely. Grounding your game in tried and true awesome is fine. Just don't make it another carbon copy. Halo has been made. I don't want to play HaloClone#2354673. Or even HalfLifeClone#436342. Gimme something that at least FEELS fresh.

Plus, if you look at indie games, there's always something awesomely new going on. If developers would grow some damn balls and run with some of THOSE concepts, the shelves at GameStop might look a lot different.