Are F50s orphans?

[StarPD]

As I peruse the F50 owners' check-in thread, I see mostly 2002 and up that are customized and trimmed up. I find little on performance mods or actual improvements. Most posts on the F50 involving mechanical issues are usually posted in the Q45 main folder, probably becase that's where most members go first, and there's not much in the F 50 thread. While I understand that there are few aftermarket performance parts available, due to the limited quantities of this car produced,surely there are tricks and tweaks that can be done to improve it's few shortcomings.

Personally, I find the F 50 to be what the Y 33 should have been. It's doubtless a little behind the curve, and has been treated poorly by Infiniti. But hot rodders have for decades made efforts on even the most obscure and arcane cars, and in some cases, turned them into stirring examples of ingenuity. Is this a lost art?

There can be ittle doubt that the VK engine is well developed by the engineers at Infiniti, and not much can be done to improve it for reasonable cost. The usual fuel, exhaust, and other bolt-on stuff doesn't pay off well on this sperb motor, and no aftermarket ECU is even available for it. Too bad about the ECU, as I believe one that is programable would lead to at least moderate improvements .

But the chassis is where it needs help. Unfortunately, even the G50 has limitations in this regard. Imrpoving handling almost always results in harsher ride, something not desired in a performance/luxury car. Yet BMW seems to find a way to provide an excellent controlled ride without the stiffness we encounter in the few spring/strut changes for it. The excellent semi-active shocks on the F50 are a good place to start on it. And while different sway bars are not readily available, surely someone can find a way to alter them or replace them with something a little better; bigger rear and smaller front, perhaps more positive mounting/connecting..

Likewise the steering on F50s leaves something to be desired. I find it excellent in all aspects except decent direct road feel and response. While this can be addressed somewhat by changing wheels and tires, there's more to it than that. FWIW, my own 2005 seems to understeer. It IS better with the change I made to 18x8-40 wheels and 245/45ZR18-100W Pole Position tires. I wonder however if it's not as much understeer as an increase in steering effort due to the speed-sensitive steering,which increases effort as speed climbs. More direct connections would help, as long as they wouldn't be so stiff as to make the vehicle steer like a truck.

Thanks to the great amount of electronic control of systems in these cars, digging into these aspects might be a good place to start.

I for one intend to look into these things, and pursue them. I'll report here on whatever I find. Despite the small numbers of F50s sold, this is the place for owners of this great car to exchange ideas and report findings.

I do have a few ideas. A remote trunk mounted battery kit would pull around 35 lbs from the front and put it in the rear, improving weight distribution. This kind of change provides more improvement than one mght think. Another is a true forced air induction system. Coupled with a good straight-through 2-3/4" exhaust sytem, thin wall high grade, even stainess steel for reduced weight and longevity would help. This should add somewhere around 20 HP at higher speeds. Certainly lightweight forged wheels and lighter tires would help both ride and handling. Weight saving and re-distribution are often overlooked in the search for better performance and handling. Surely there are ways to reduce and alter it, even on the alread highly developed F50.

So far, I've learned a lot here, and gotten a lot of help. Thanks to all who take the time to share their knowledge and wisdom. Hopefuly, together we can find the little improvements for the F50 that will bring it to its rightful place in the automotive world.

What say you?

[maxnix]

I say the G50 has a higher primary harmonic frequency (is stiffer) than a W124, the previous benchmark, and a smaller car.

Impul makes a performance ECU, and other F50 goodies, if you want to pay.

Hot rodding on cast iron 2 valve caruretted pushrod engines is quite a different matter than all alloy, twin cam, four valve per cylinder, fuel injected engines with variable intakes and camshaft timing. The latter are much more powerful and flexible in a standard state of tune. A lot less margin for improvement.

[StarPD]

I say the G50 has a higher primary harmonic frequency (is stiffer) than a W124, the previous benchmark, and a smaller car.

Impul makes a performance ECU, and other F50 goodies, if you want to pay.

Hot rodding on cast iron 2 valve caruretted pushrod engines is quite a different matter than all alloy, twin cam, four valve per cylinder, fuel injected engines with variable intakes and camshaft timing. The latter are much more powerful and flexible in a standard state of tune. A lot less margin for improvement.

Infiniti claims the F50 chassis is stiffer, but doesn't say how much. You may very well be correct though.

Modern engines are designed for a combination of smoothness, emissions, fuel mileage and other attributes besides performance. All engines can all be improved. The question is how much, and at what cost. I still believe that modest gains can be accomplished without compromising other things, as engineers must take into consideration the lowest common denominator and every possible condition as well as variances between individual examples when setting parameters. The same goes for chassis.

Thanks for the tip on Impul.I'll find their web site and check it out.

[elwesso]

You just have to be ready to give and take for certain things...

Ive had a LOT of people ride in my Q that roll in stock Qs (with low profile tires and a pretty hardcore suspension for a Q) and its not harsh by any means. Yeah, its stiffer than most cars, but is it daily driveable? Yes, by all means... I think people get really discouraged when theres sharp changes... Why most lowering springs intended as OEM replacments are only 15-20% stiffer........... otherwise owners would complain (not to mention thats about as stiff as you could make them for OEM shocks..). For me it was a big deal but i played with tire pressures nad i got used to it really quick. People often forget that after the deed is done there is more "tinkering" to be done to get it perfect!

Nissan and Infiniti likes to make their cars understeer so retarded people dont spin out when they drive them hard... With that said, a new rear sway bar could be redesigned probably for $200 or so.

Unfortunatley with the McPhearson setup is pretty limited. I bet you could get some Nismo or poly tension rod bushings... you should try that...

Those who reprogram ECUs for a VK45 on the FX series only net about 10HP for about $500 or so. NOT worth it..

[StarPD]

I say the G50 has a higher primary harmonic frequency (is stiffer) than a W124, the previous benchmark, and a smaller car.

Impul makes a performance ECU, and other F50 goodies, if you want to pay.

Hot rodding on cast iron 2 valve caruretted pushrod engines is quite a different matter than all alloy, twin cam, four valve per cylinder, fuel injected engines with variable intakes and camshaft timing. The latter are much more powerful and flexible in a standard state of tune. A lot less margin for improvement.

Well, I found Impul.Unfortunately, it's all in Japanese, and I can't even read the US national language, Spanish, much less Japanese.

I'll have to dig further.

[marksport]

Jet offers an ECU reflash for the F50, tho I don't know how good it truly is.

[Q45tech]

ORPHANS do cost alot, not so much in the beginning but annually just like any child and you don't even get the fun of making them.

Sounds like a Q to me.

[StarPD]

Well, I found Impul.Unfortunately, it's all in Japanese, and I can't even read the US national language, Spanish, much less Japanese.

I'll have to dig further.

Found an Impul site in English.Unfortunately, it doesn't show or list anything, just says to E-mail them to ask about items, which of course there is no way of knowing what they are.DUH!

I wonder if anyone in the US, perhaps an importer or dealer has an Internet catalog that shows abd describes Impuls goodies for an F 50.

Links, anyone?

Thanks

[mcrews]

Jason Burtman at Burtman Industries is shipping me an IMPUL body kit.He also owns a F50/Q45 2002.very committed to the car.

Mark

[Jesda]

The Japanese concept of luxury seems to emphasize passivity. You sit; the car drives. This is why fatty lumps like the Lexus LS exist.

This is why the F50 can't carve a corner like an E39. It wasn't made to.

Lean the seat back, light up a cigar, turn on Al Green, and cruise. You'll reach your destination more relaxed and more satisfied than anyone else.

Basically, my suggestion is to get a BMW.

[maxnix]

http://translate.google.com/tr...tools

There is a catalog for $30.

Wonder what a Q45s is?

Whole site has changed radically.

Wheels tires are easy. Big brakes not too bad.

Springs and shocks more difficult.

Engine will take big bucks and connections in Japan.

[StarPD]

http://translate.google.com/tr...tools

There is a catalog for $30.

Wonder what a Q45s is?

Whole site has changed radically.

Wheels tires are easy. Big brakes not too bad.

Springs and shocks more difficult.

Engine will take big bucks and connections in Japan.

That's great, maxnix. Thanks a million.The translations are funny though, reminds me of those Internet examples of Japanese advertisements in tortured English.

Hmmm, I wonder how much 218,000 yen is?

[StarPD]

The Japanese concept of luxury seems to emphasize passivity. You sit; the car drives. This is why fatty lumps like the Lexus LS exist.

This is why the F50 can't carve a corner like an E39. It wasn't made to.

Lean the seat back, light up a cigar, turn on Al Green, and cruise. You'll reach your destination more relaxed and more satisfied than anyone else.

Basically, my suggestion is to get a BMW.

Not so, Jesda.

The G50 when introduced, and for quite a few years after, was a good example of how the Japanese CAN build a high performance luxury car. The same goes for the second gen M45. But all cars can benefit from some tweaking. I'm not trying to make a race car of my F50, but rather a competent and accomplished GT car. I believe that the F50 already has most of the basics. As it stands, it's far abiove such examples as the LS460, and the front drive Acuras, and such cars as the more mundane Saab, Volvo, and a few others that aren't even in the same class as the Q45 but cost as much.

The F50 already has an excellent engine that can benefit from a few minor bolt-on changes like ECU, intake, and exhaust systems. The intake and exhaust sytems can be done for a reasonable amount of money, the ECU admittedly more bucks, but the improvements would make it a formidable foe in ordinary road circumstances, even against the non "M" versions of the BMW like the 545 ande 745. A mere 20 cto 30 hp gain would put it right where I feel it should be. Likewise the chassis. It's really not "bad". It merely needs a few minor mods like sway bar changes, perhaps springs, and replacement of steering and sway bar bushings with slightly firmer ones.

The F50 corners flat, and has an excellent turning circle, indicating a well-thought out steering ratio. It only lacks a little in further development of more positive feedback to the driver, and that's not impossible. It would just take a little careful study, and attention to detail.

Before I bought my last 3 Q45s, I had 10 new high performance Corvettes, all special ordered with the biggest available engines, strongest 4 speed trans, special suspensions and wheels/tire, etc. Yet they weren't good enough for me. I developed them into examples that were still comfortable vehicles that were easy to drive on the street, yet able to dust off anything I came up against. I even had one of the only factory L-88 Corvettes delivered to a retail customer in 1969, of which the story of my getting it is an interesting and fun one. Yes, I even had to tweak it. It even had Michelin "XWX" tires, $400 each, a lot of money in 1969. When I was finished with it, it was an absolute pavement wrinkler, one that would run and corner with the very best of them, yet was a joy on the many 300 to 400 mile road trips I regularly took throughout the Midwest, running at 135 to 160 regularly for long distances, fun all the way, but a pleasure to drive, especially at the speeds I ran.To allow these speeds at night, it had jet aircraft landing light with custome wiring, 2@ 200,000 cp each,and 2@ 290,000 cp each, plus export low beams. I could see at night well enough to drive at over 150 mph. With a 3.55 rear end, and a 7400 RPM redline, it was capable of 200 mph, although I only took it up to 180 by the tach, and that only once. Beyond that speed, it got too light.

I'm never satisfied with stock vehicles. While in my older age, I enjoy comfort and luxury more than I did when I was young, I still demand above average performance. I believe that the F50 CAN deliver what I like and want. It's just a matter of a little development and attention. As with any other challenge, it's a matter of will.

I ask then for any suggestions anyone here can offer, and will of course share my own discoveries with others too.

I've already started with my new TSW "Kyalami" 18x8-40 wheels and 245/45ZR18-100W "Pole Position" tires. They have helped, but are too heavy. I plan on replacing them later on with good lightweight forged OZ or BBS wheels and PS2 tires in the same size. I also plan on dropping the car very slight 1/2 to 3/4 inches. Even such minimial reductions in height improve the cd more than one might expect, and the lowering of the cg aids in handling a considerable amount. The semi-active shocks are excellent, and don't need any changes. I also plan on working on the intake with a naturally but forced cold air intake sytem.Later will be a lightweight stainless steel larger more straight through but adequatel muffled exhaust system. Somewhere along the line, I hope to find a tunable or at least upgraded ECU that will provide a little more spark advance and moderately firmer shifts, no speed limiter, and hopefully, a higher cruise control maximum speed.

When I'm done, will it beat a new BMW M5? Not hardly. But it WILL smoke any other non forced induction and/or non NoS Q45, as well as most comparable Mercedes and 545s.

That's what I'm looking for.

Stay tuned.

In the meantime, I ask for any tips others may have learned on the F50.It's too good of a car to let it languish as an old geezer's fast sofa.

Come on, guys. Which of you will refuse to accept "it can't be done"?

[Sharpel007]

Have you seen the sales figures for the F50 the past few years on the Nissan Corprate news site ? they sold something like 12 in the last half of 05, after they upgraded it, yes they didnt import alot but still.

I was looking at Y35 M45 prices and giggling what a bargain it is then I looked at F50 prices and fell out of my chair.

and its only going to get worse, or better for us in the know.