Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel?

Post by **MattB** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:05 pm

I know they recommend premium fuel for VK45 powered-cars, but has anyone run 87 or 89 octane fuel through theirs? And if so were there any noticable problems with this? I ask since I'm looking at potentially getting an '03 or '04 M45 in a little over a year and fuel prices being what they are any way I could spend less money is good....

Post by **szh** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:12 pm

I would not consider doing this on my current M45 ... despite gas costs! There have been past posts on the topic.

Z

Post by **FarFetched** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:14 pm

GET A FORD OR CHEVY in that case.I drove Lincoln TC for a while, nice ride, uses REG fuel. I wouldn't comare Q or M to TownCounry, but at least you get to use REGULAR!

Post by **FarFetched** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:15 pm

I meant TownCar!

Post by **rsiwicki** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:16 pm

Lets say you drive 15,000 miles per year and average 20mpg. Then you would use about 750 gallons of gas. Price difference between "el cheapo" versus premium is 20 cents per gallon. Then you take the 20 cents multiplied by 750 gallons and you end up spending an extra $150.00 per year or $12.50 per month.

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:21 pm

While fuel prices are up, the cost of regular is up just as much as premium. The difference is only a dollar or two with each tankful, so while 15-30 cents more per gallon -feels- economically dramatic, its really not.

Sure, all modern vehicles have sensors to compensate, but do you really want to? There's absolutely no reason to buy such powerful vehicles if you're willing to lose performance to save a few bucks on gas.

Post by **Rex** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:24 pm

I used to pump gas, and as a pump jockey, I have to tell you I hate it when people let a nickle or dime effect their gas purchase. It was not uncommon for their to be a rush just before closing if a new tax or price increase was scheduled for the next day. I can't tell you how many people would come up and top off (~$5) just to save the 10 or 15 cents per gallon on the 4 gallons they got.

Sorry, most of us spend more on pop or coffee than buying the right gas would cost .

Post by **gniknave** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:40 pm

Jesda wrote:

While fuel prices are up, the cost of regular is up just as much as premium. The difference is only a dollar or two with each tankful, so while 15-30 cents more per gallon -feels- economically dramatic, its really not.

I've also noticed this. On average around here 87 is up nearly .75 per gallon over what we're used to. Where 91 (premium out here) is up about .40 per gallon. For a while my 240 was the gas saver, but now gas price no longer plays a role in my daily choice whether to drive the 240 or the Q.

Rex wrote:I used to pump gas, and as a pump jockey, I have to tell you I hate it when people let a nickle or dime effect their gas purchase. It was not uncommon for their to be a rush just before closing if a new tax or price increase was scheduled for the next day. I can't tell you how many people would come up and top off (~$5) just to save the 10 or 15 cents per gallon on the 4 gallons they got.

Sorry, most of us spend more on pop or coffee than buying the right gas would cost .

When I was with my g/f I'd spend $45-80 per week on a nice dinner. Yet, I'd complain like hell about gas prices. Though I know I'm paying too much, it's not killing me YET. We get to $3.00 per gallon (outside San Francisco that is), and I'm footin it!

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:15 pm

Im going to jump on the bandwagon as well.....

Around here its about 20 cents more for premium..... To fill up (20 gal), thats an extra $4 a fill up...

If your going to fret about $4 every fill up, you shouldnt be in an infiniti, bottom line!

Post by **gniknave** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:38 pm

I want to see an equation showing the cost effectiveness of buying a Prius. At the average purchase price (or MSRP), how long would it take for the buyer to begin actually saving money on gas?

Doesn't make sense to me to spend 20k+ to save $3 (and thats a high guess) per fillup vs. an average 4 cylinder. Now if they moved from a Suburban to a Prius then I see the point. I know gas mileage is the main reason the Prius sells. I don't buy the clean air burning bullcrap reason for buying one, because nobody seemed to care about that before the gas prices skyrocketed!

Post by **MattB** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:21 pm

FarFetched wrote:GET A FORD OR CHEVY in that case.I drove Lincoln TC for a while, nice ride, uses REG fuel. I wouldn't comare Q or M to TownCounry, but at least you get to use REGULAR!

Look at it this way though...my current G20 takes regular fuel and gets 5-6mpg better than the M45 does. That leads to a large increase in fuel costs when combined with premium fuel price increases.

I'm not saying I'd actually run 87 through an M45, but I have read several articles saying that it doesn't affect cars requiring 91 to run 87 or 89 through them.

Post by **prospetiva** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:34 pm

Better not risk it only to pay hundreds on repairs later... plus you get better performance on 91 anyway so just think of it as paying a few extra cents for a smoother / faster ride.. I used to buy 89 fuel on my benz before that was before i knew better!

Post by **Jeff Williams** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:31 pm

Octane basically affects performance and can affect fuel mileage. I have acutally gotten better fuel economy on lower octane gas, with my old Honda.

With today's electronics, the octane rating is less important. I would not worry about using mid or reg fuel in the Q or M, as long as you put in Super once in a while. Just don't think it will perform the same.

I keep super in all my cars, since it is usually only $.06 or $.08 more than mid grade, and it is usually 4 octane ratings. Between reg & mid, there is 2 octane, for $.10.

I spend about $6,000.00 per year in gas, so 5% is about $300. I'll pay the $300 for the performance.

Post by **driverdriver** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:57 pm

I ran regular gas on my J a few times back in '98/'99 when gas prices spiked for the first time. This is after driving it since basically new only on premium. I noticed a HUGE difference in acceleration, overall performance and got really poor mileage. I remember an Inifniti tech telling me some years ago, that lower octane gas would clog up the injectors on the J andc cause early failure, since they're performance engineered-don't know if that's the case in the M45, but I would assume so. Like some on this board have already have inferred, if you want to buy cheaper gas own a cheaper car.

Post by **driftinthe45** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:19 pm

If your planning on running 87 or 89 dont get one of those cars. a gas station attendent by mistake filled my 94q up with 87 one time(i always run 93) and it ran horribly. while driving down the interstate i had to go slow and keep it in second because it wanted to cut off in D when it wasnt revving high enough to barely keep the motor going. if i would give it gas, floor it even, NOTHING would happen. So like rsiwicki said, spend the extra 12.50$ a month and you will be fine.

Post by **atlanta_shooter** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:16 am

I don't know about the "Q", but the times I have run my '97 J30 on 87 or 89 octane, I noticed very little if any performance difference and no noticeable difference in fuel mileage. For the uninformed, our Infinitis do have block mounted "knock sensor(s)". They should detect knock (fuel detonation vs "burn") before you hear it and retard the engine timing accordingly. I just don't believe the "doom and gloom" prognosticators.-I have never heard of any injector problems associated with "lower octane" gases...doesn't make any sense to me, but who knows?-If you want to save a little money, half fill your tank with 87, and half with 93. This will give you the equivalent of a 90 octane...the "recommendation" is for 91 octane, so maybe use a tad more 93 than 87. Not really worth the hassle or weird looks you get from station attendents IMO, but it works...certainly no more obsessive than the 3,000 mi Mobil 1 changers...lol!--Here's a link I posted sometime back from USA Today...read it before you shoot it down...there are some quotes from Porsche and Benz engineers. What impressed me the most eas what the guy with Porsche said about Porsche designing their engines to run on just about any gasoline w/o any ill effects. I love my Infiniti guys, but let's face it, they are in general not in a league with Porsche.-- http://www.usatoday.com/money/...x.htm -For those inclined to flame me w/o reading the link:--All Porsche engines are designed for premium, too, but it's not available everywhere. "Our cars must be able to drive all over the world, and so we are able to run on regular," says Jakob Neusser, director of powertrain development at Porsche's research and development center in Weissach, Germany. "You don't have to feel that a mechanical problem or anything else will happen" using regular gas, even in the highest-performance, regular-production Porsches.

Modified by atlanta_shooter at 1:30 PM 4/8/2005
Modified by atlanta_shooter at 1:32 PM 4/8/2005

Post by **Q_SHIP** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:21 am

atlanta_shooter wrote:I just don't believe th "doom and gloom" prognosticators.

Best quote ever. i feel the same. There sure are a lot of them here.

Post by **maxnix** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:08 am

Q_SHIP wrote:
Best quote ever. i feel the same. There sure are a lot of them here.

Actually, in previous posts, Q45tech has described how a runaway heat build-up can occur using regular, which retards the timing, which produces more heat, etc. can occur especially in summer heat.

It's amazing to me that owners think they know more than the engineers who designed the engine to run on premeium, not regular. They didn't do it capriciously.

Regular fuel failback mode is to allow unfortunate owner only to get to next source of proper fuel with correct burn rate.

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:13 am

Tell me you arent using USA Today as a source for technical information!

Post by **szh** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:30 am

Here is a thread on my personal experience, with very carefully measured results, using 89 octane and 91 octane, on my wife's car (which was designed for 86 octane according to the manual):

zerothread?id=97736

Needless to say, I simply will not consider using anything less than 91 in my M45! Articles in USA Today notwithstanding!

Z

Post by **atlanta_shooter** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:58 pm

Jesda wrote:Tell me you arent using USA Today as a source for technical information!

No, Jesda....actually I am using engineers quoted in USA Today:

Lewis Gibbs, consulting engineer and 45-year veteran at Chevron oil company. He's chairman of Technical Committee 7 on Fuels, part of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuels & Lubricants Council. Gibbs knows gas.

"I go back and forth, and I'm hard-pressed to notice" whether there's regular or premium in the tank, says Jeff Jetter, principal chemist at Honda Research and Development Americas. He drives an Acura designed for premium.

The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders. "You're driving along and just tramp the gas and the knock sensor cannot sense the knock fast enough in some cases," because the supercharger boosts pressure so fast, says Bob Furey, chemist and fuels specialist at General Motors.

Burning regular when the owner's manual specifies premium won't void the warranty, nor damage the engine, even the most finicky automakers say. "You're giving up perhaps just a little bit of performance that a customer wouldn't really even notice, it's so slight," says Furey.

Mercedes takes the approach of a politician...i.e. straddling the fence and uses a "spokeswoman"...not an engineer:"We can't guarantee the vehicle will perform as specified if other than premium fuel is used," says Mercedes-Benz spokeswoman Michelle Murad. All U.S. Mercedes engines specify premium.

The Porsche engineer was already quoted in the earlier post. Geez Louise...I run premium 99% of the time, I am meticulous (not neurotic) about maintainance...but fact is, I would be hard pressed to get even 4 grand for it now...that's one major reason I got it in the first place. Infinitis are great automobiles with crap for resale value. I think that may change with the current crop...i.e. G35 and the newly restyled M45 that doesn't look like a Chevy Impala from the front anymore.

Please chill a little...all I did was post my unscientific experience with my car and then post a link to what I thought was a pretty informative article.

I try very hard to be open minded when I read a post that goes against what I feel/know to be true, but some of you guys would tell me I'm nuts if I said the sky was blue.

Maybe I should change my sig...probably ticks Dems off...j/k!

P.S. Jesda... FYI...those bubbling brook feng shui ads Infiniti ran back in the late '80s that never showed the car, are one of the major reason that Lexus jumped out in front, and has never looked back

Post by **maxnix** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:03 pm

atlanta_shooter wrote:I try very hard to be open minded when I read a post that goes against what I feel/know to be true, but some of you guys would tell me I'm nuts if I said the sky was blue.

Feeeeeliiiinnnngs! Engineering design and scientific experiments leave no room for subjective prejudices nor the most dearly held intuitive assumptions.

Post by **dgeorge_c** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:24 pm

So, was there an actual answer to this question?

Post by **driftinthe45** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:31 pm

yes, dont use crappy gas!

Post by **sijoko** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:40 pm

I have my timing set at approx. 18 degrees base, which means only Shell 93 for me. Sometimes, I put in 91 or 92 because of circumstances. I notice the power loss when I do.

As far as 87 or 89 octane: The minimum for the Q is 91 octane. The knock sensors pick up on detonation after the fact. It might be too late by then. The engine might already be damaged.

As far Porsche's engine design versus the design of the Infiniti, I would think that the VH45DE is probably the better built engine. I seriously doubt anyone is going to be getting 200k out their Porsche engine. A good comparison would be between the new Porsche 4.5 V8 versus the VH45DE.

The Q and M are luxury cars, which means they require more expenditures than an economy car would. If gas costs are a factor, then the Q or the M should not be considered as a daily driver.

Plus, what is an extra $15 or $20 a week in the big picture. It is what we use to call in New York "chump change".

I have a 92 Nissan Stanza that I keep just for commuting. It is cheap on gas and cheap to operate. It lets me keep the Q for when I can enjoy the drive.

-sijoko

Post by **atlanta_shooter** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:26 am

maxnix wrote:
Feeeeeliiiinnnngs! Engineering design and scientific experiments leave no room for subjective prejudices nor the most dearly held intuitive assumptions.

.......and that's precisely why I provided a link to a good article devoid of "feelings", "subjective prejudices", or "...the most dearly held intuitive assumptions".

Post by **dgeorge_c** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:47 pm

driftinthe45 wrote:yes, dont use crappy gas!

...and the question was "Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel?"

What am I missing?

Post by **driftinthe45** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:59 pm

yes the answer was dont use regular aka "crappy"

Post by **SIDVICIOUS** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:52 am

I HAVE USED BOTH IN MY 2003 M45. I NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE NOT ONLY IN PREMIUM AND REGULAR BUT ALSO BETWEEN DIFFERENT BRANDS OF PREMIUM. I WOULD GET KNOCKING DURING ACCELERATION WITH GETTY BUT EXON, SUNOCO WERE SMOOTH. WHEN I SAY ACCELERATION I MEAN FROM DEAD STOP, PEDAL TO THE FLOOR! I CAN'T HELP IT WITH THIS CAR.

Post by **sadams** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:05 am

I may be considered anal but I drive a few miles out of the way to use Chevron (w/ Techron) or Shell (w/V-power) Premium. Had a friend who headed up the petroleum testing agency here and he said those were the cleanest fuels. I don't know, just seems like a good investment to protect my ride.

Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel?

Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel?

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (MattB)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (FarFetched)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (MattB)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (MattB)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (Jesda)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (gniknave)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (elwesso)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (FarFetched)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (MattB)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (prospetiva)

Re: (driftinthe45)

Re: (atlanta_shooter)

Re: (Q_SHIP)

Re: (Jesda)

School of Barry Manilow Engineering

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (MattB)

Re: School of Barry Manilow Engineering (maxnix)

Re: (driftinthe45)

Re: Anyone run their M45/Q45 on regular fuel? (MattB)

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