Anyone put Nitrous on a 2nd gen Q?

[zinkie13]

Alright so I'm tired of my Q being slow ALL of the time. I figured since I don't have the money to put towards my ultimate goal (to be reach sometime within the next 20 years) of a twin turbo 97 that I might install a Nitrous system for the time being. Has anyone had any experience with this or any suggestions? Thanks!

[1992Q45A]

I imagine it feels uber slow compared to the all mighty VK powered F50 you drive around

[zinkie13]

The y33 does have its good days...but they are rare in number! And well....I just don't get to drive the F50 that often. I really miss my 92!!!!

[HeavyDuty]

If I knew the 97 had a return style fuel system (tank to rail then returned to tank via a fuel pressure regulator) I would suggest a modest dry shot (75hp) or even a 100 shot with a Crane nitrous controller.

It allows you to preset when the system starts flowing, then pulses the solenoid incrementally until you have your full shot, then you preset when it shuts off before the rev limiter kicks in.

You can run a larger shot this way opposed to the instant on type microswitch at the throttle body only systems which would still be the foundation of the system I'm talking about.

It also can auto purge for you if you have a purge system installed.

Example:

Turn the bottle on, arm the system, arm the purge kit, arm the controller. The controller auto purges for 2 seconds, then hit the gas & say.....2,000 rpm the controller pulses the n2o solenoid equal to that of a 50 shot....at 4,000 it gives you a 75 shot, and at 5,500 a full 100 shot followed by a system shut down at....say....6,500 before you hit the rev limiter.

There's several really quick ways to turn your car into an attractive lawn ornament, and n2o is one of them. Lots of things must be *exactly* right to avoid a meltdown.

Too bad they sell it over the counter, it gets a bad rep on account of that. It's a perfect power adder for someone who needs a little extra punch now & then.

Warning!

You will become used to it & an always on power adder will probably ensue. (turbo, s/c)

If the 97 does not have a full cycle fuel system, you have to go wet, you can accomplish the same thing but it's more involved & a little less safe, may I say? At least on a fuel injected, non oem turbo application car.

Hope that helps.

[AZhitman]

Should be a great candidate for a shot of gas... Especially given its bulletproof internals.

Just don't go overboard!

[Q45tech]

The key is to not exceed the torque limits of the AT transmission by more than 20% say 300 x 1.20= 360 lb/ft...........a 75 HP shot will create 65 lb/ft at 6,000 rpm ; 98@ 4,000; 130 lb/ft at 3,000 rpm...........you have to pulse it till at least 5200 rpm.

[AZhitman]

Jason, if you ever come to Phoenix, I have access to an almost complete 75-shot system that's begging to be hidden in Quella's ample arse.

Up for an install? I have an air-conditioned garage!

[MiniMan]

You could always go with a dual electric supercharger setup... that is if you have money coming out of your arse . (It'd be mostly for my entertainment... but lets keep that on the DL)

Corey

[HeavyDuty]

Jason, if you ever come to Phoenix, I have access to an almost complete 75-shot system that's begging to be hidden in Quella's ample arse.

Up for an install? I have an air-conditioned garage!

You have an opportunity right now to add the n2o module to your ECU...............

I had it on my 91 SE-R, and now I retained it for the GTI-R boost program, 72#/906cc injectors as a 50 shot for spool-up.

In other words, it might not be wasted if/when you boost.

[zinkie13]

Well Heavy that kind of helped except for that fact that I barely know anything about the car! haha I am guessing I am gonna have to have it professionally installed. I think I understand what your saying but it seems like it would be a hard thing to figure out on the installation. How is the controller going to know what rmp's the engine is running at? So, you are saying with the Crane controller and a dry nitrous kit it could take a 100 shot of nos at its maximum. The higher the rpm's the more nitrous being pumped to the system correct? Then when it gets near redline it shuts off? How much would it cost for something thatt complicated? What brands are the best?

[elwesso]

Its gonna have to be all custom.... The controller would look at the CAS voltage, err actually there should be a check connector somewhere under the hood for you to check the engine RPMs (on the G50 its on the passenger side near the AC suction valve).... If its all self contained it shouldnt be that complicated....

[HeavyDuty]

Well Heavy that kind of helped except for that fact that I barely know anything about the car! haha I am guessing I am gonna have to have it professionally installed. I think I understand what your saying but it seems like it would be a hard thing to figure out on the installation. How is the controller going to know what rpm's the engine is running at?

First, I need to know from a 97-01 owner if the fuel system is full loop. Does it run from the tank to the fuel rails & back via a vacuum operated fuel pressure regulator?

There's an rpm port on the ecu, or elsewhere in the system.

So, you are saying with the Crane controller and a dry nitrous kit it could take a 100 shot of nos at its maximum. The higher the rpm's the more nitrous being pumped to the system correct?

Nitrous flow is linear. A 100 shot at 4000 rpm is only worth 50 shot at 8000 rpm. The engine's consumption is greater as the rpm's increase. {{[DISCLAIMER:]}} Rough numbers for demonstration purposes. No flames please.

So let's use Dennis's 75 shot max guideline. Then working backwards from 6500 rpm with a 75 shot, then we work a 50 at 4500, and a 25 shot at 2500.

Then when it gets near redline it shuts off? How much would it cost for something thatt complicated? What brands are the best?

Yes, it shuts down at the rpm you dial it in for.The controller is mid $300-low $400's, perhaps.I like NOS, but that's only because I'm familiar with their quality. A dry system runs around mid $500's.

I was trying to find it online but have to go, I'll look for it later.

[Tgvince]

Hey Jason, Im 99% sure its a full return system. It sure appeared to have all the return lines when I installed a custom fuel pump setup in.

Ive got pics if you want to see:).

Terry

[3Q Jay]

yes, it's return loop, with pressure regulator on return side. There is also a small vac operated 'damper' on both the inlet and outlet side in addition to the PR.

[Q45tech]

When you clamp off the return line the pressure goes to 60 psi [at idle] but never checked it at 6,000 rpm [can the pump provide the volume and pressure at the same time]60/43.4=1.3825 SQRT= 1.1758 or 17.5% more fuel than stock that would be enough for a 50 HP shot PERIOD NO MORE.

A 75-80 HP shot would require a 73-75 psi fuel pressure.

There is a pressure relief valve on the pump so don't exceed 65 psi........if you watch pressure you will see it pulse on and off.

A really accurate electronic fuel pressure gauge would be mandantory.

Why for their 75 HP shot JWT just created a daughter board for ecu where the fuel injectors normally maxed at 11 millisecs went up to 14-14.5 millisecs..........plenty of time reserve in injectors as at 80% duty cycle ~~ 440 Hp NA and 400 Hp with Nox.

Normally at the torque peak rpm the injector open time is greatest [MAX] because that is the highest efficiency point. AS the rpms increase the TIME for cylinder filling declines so by the HP rpm the open time has declined by at least 10% [usually 13-15%] to reflect the less air flow in cylinder.

OEM just locks the open time at what ever it was at HP peak rpm, this has the effect of a progressively richer [more protective mixture to redline.

Look at a dyno torque curve and follow the progressive decline in torque which correlates with decline in cylinder air flow.

You might get lucky because the MAF might respond if Nox was sprayed into air box........colder temps might add 5% more injector open time..........lots of trial and error if you exceed a 50 HP shot.

[HeavyDuty]

Cool, I finally found it, but it looks like they're dropping production. I worked well, but unless you knew they had it, you wouldn't know it existed.

http://www.shopcranecams.com/digadnitcon1.html

Feeble marketing, unfortunately.

Grab one if you're serious, hell, grab a couple.

Thanks for the heads up on the fuel system, fellas.

[HeavyDuty]

You might get lucky because the MAF might respond if Nox was sprayed into air box........colder temps might add 5% more injector open time..........lots of trial and error if you exceed a 50 HP shot.

Yeah, that's how the systems work on GM LS1's (98>) good idea.

Are you suggesting a dry shot utilizing the n20 pressure regulator to increase rail pressure combined with a MAF sprayover?

Hmmm,

Guess I'm spoiled with the JWT setup.

[zinkie13]

Q45tech, if I were to get a better fuel pump would the car be able to handle a setup such as heavy describes? with the 50-75-100 shot controlled dry setup?

[elwesso]

The stock fuel pump should handle it... Just remap the controller....

[zinkie13]

According to Q45Tech one shouldn't go more than a 65 shot though.

[Q45tech]

Don't confuse pressure with volume, all pumps loose volume [and draw more current] with increasing pressure. The pump can flow 60 gallons per hour at normal pressure.......thats enough for over 600 HP. The 370 cc [35 pound per hour] injector 35lbs =70 HP x 8= 560 HP in theory but use 80% or 448HP as max safe reliable flow.

The Q system runs at 55% under worst case for longevity.

Why reprogramming the injector open time has so much potential.

However intake valve flow [cam duration is 248/360= 68.6%] so you only have so much open time without pouring gasoline on a closed valve ......no air flow........so a 20% boost in open time with out more cam duration is feasible ~~ 385 HP.......now with more pressure you could get more gasoline to flow in a faster time so 60 psi plus longer open time ~~425-450 HP........all from stock injectors and stock pump.All you need is 50% more air/ oxygen in the case of Nox :

You start with a 50 HP shot and work your way up in increments. 65 HP was the transmission reliability limit.

You don't want to get to the point where each drag race cost you $120 [only get 30 runs per transmission] instead of $15 Nox plus engine transmission rebuilds. Currently [stock] each WOT drag cost about 15-30 cents [gas wear and tear].

[Tgvince]

I have graphs showing amp draw and flow rate of the Walbro pumps if anyone would be interested. If the Q pump is anything like the TT Supra pump It draws ALOT more then any of the Walbro units will. I maybe able to get a graph for the stock TTZ pump...I believe the Q and the TTZ are similar if not the same unit.

Terry

[zinkie13]

Thanks for the advice.. I don't know if this will be happening anytime soon. I think first of all I am going to remove my 3 mufflers and put dual remus mufflers out to each side.