http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb...18815
Makes me seriously question throwing a lot of money out on an amp.
Simm, I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I know you have some definite opinions as to amps.
Anyone Ever Heard of Richard Clark's $10,000 Amp Challenge
Clarke's bottom line is that features aside, a watt is a watt. So any two amps, a pyramid, pyle, legacy (fill in crap here) and a audison, mcintosh, zapco, butler (fill in expensive high quality amp here) with gains adjusted correctly, and making the same wattage (not necessarily what is advertised, but what is seen at output) will sound exactly alike.
That is to say that the THD and S/N ratios maybe different, but not at an inaudible level. The differences in the amps may be in the gain adjustments, heat sink abilities to disipate heat, components, warranty...All which should be factored into a purchase, but will effect life, and customizability, not the sound.
That is to say that the THD and S/N ratios maybe different, but not at an inaudible level. The differences in the amps may be in the gain adjustments, heat sink abilities to disipate heat, components, warranty...All which should be factored into a purchase, but will effect life, and customizability, not the sound.
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audtatious
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Yeah, I talked to Richard back when the 'Nationals were still held in Bogart, GA. That GN was a pretty sweet sounding ride.
I also tend to agree. I have seen systems installed with the intent to show that lower-end amps are as good as the higher-end with regards to SQ. The problem with some of the low-end amps is that they can have a high THD effect and of course they are always highly over rated. Build quality is a biggie as well.
I'd rather have a small high-quality 20wpc amp that will take a beating than a cheap 500wpc amp that will overheat and burn out, that's for sure....
I also tend to agree. I have seen systems installed with the intent to show that lower-end amps are as good as the higher-end with regards to SQ. The problem with some of the low-end amps is that they can have a high THD effect and of course they are always highly over rated. Build quality is a biggie as well.
I'd rather have a small high-quality 20wpc amp that will take a beating than a cheap 500wpc amp that will overheat and burn out, that's for sure....
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audtatious
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I went to IASCA nationals in OK (?early 90's?) and got to hang in the PPI tuning garage as the guy I went out there with was pseudo-PPI sponsored Saab. That was the year after the Fishman had the tank in his car. Never saw the Blazer, but there were TONS of cool cars.
Overall really neat, but it was amazing how elite-ist some of the guys were.
Overall really neat, but it was amazing how elite-ist some of the guys were.
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audtatious
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Yeah, I went to three Georgia Masters (Two in Bogart, GA at the Bostwick headquarters and one at Stone Mountain) and saw all except the hurse. Last event I attended was a points show in Athens GA at the hi-fi Buys where a friend was an installer. They had the PPI "truck" there which was actually a van converted into a pickup. Those PPI guys were pretty funny with their creations. I also remember Orions booth (different event at Road Atlant I believe) where they had a HCCA amp submerged in water and powered up. They were using the +/- speaker leads to arc-weld aluminum cans in half....
There was also another Terminator that competed USAC (?? I think) and eventually DB Drags. Was a red Blaser with a testarossa kit who was competeing with HiFonics/Quart equipment at the time. My friend had to replace all the speakers in it after the owner demo'd it all day during a sales event at his car audio store in Gainesville, GA (he worked as an installer at the owners shop at that time). I thought that was totally insane....
There was also another Terminator that competed USAC (?? I think) and eventually DB Drags. Was a red Blaser with a testarossa kit who was competeing with HiFonics/Quart equipment at the time. My friend had to replace all the speakers in it after the owner demo'd it all day during a sales event at his car audio store in Gainesville, GA (he worked as an installer at the owners shop at that time). I thought that was totally insane....
Well here are my 2 cents...
When you spend your money on your system, you want to buy good sounding, long lasting, and efficient equipment. It is true that amplifiers all do the same thing, amplify. But what sets "most" amplifiers apart? Marketing. Occationally some amps come with really innovative FUNCTIONAL features that either keep them cool under hot temperatures and/or are built incredibly well, but most amps are just run-of-the-mill and boring. When it comes to an amplifier for your highs/mids, (in my opinion, the most critical of the audible bands) you want something that sounds good and wont shut off on you when you jam for a couple hours on a road trip. I have always been a fan of the Precision Power amplifiers. The ones that I like, the Art Series.2, and the early Power Class (not including the .2) are not even made anymore. You can go to eBay and find them all over the place (beware some scam artists that sell dead, abused ones though). This is because they are BUILT well out of great internal parts and they sound wonderful.
What many people tend to do is study stats all day long and make their decision that way. Thats fine for the people that think something sounds better if a spec sheet tells them it does. Thats really not for me. Car audio started when some guys wanted to put great sound in their car. As materials and methods advanced, so did the car audio product. The term "audiophile" is what the basis of what car audio used to be, but has been slowly pushed away as companies focus more on flashy lights, pointless displays, and tv monitors galore. Car audio used to be about satisfying the need for your own great sound instead of getting people to look at your flashy, epileptic seisure inducing display of lights.
Many amp companies realized that they didnt have to build amps to please the audiophile anymore. Kicker, for example, used to make incredible amps. Their ZR series amps were phenomenal. One of my good car audio friends that would compete with ZR amps and Solo Baric subs got a sponsorship from Kicker and tells me all the time that his old Kicker equipment sounds better than his brand new Kicker stuff. He did add that the new subwoofer technology does impress him and that it has developed subs to handle more power, but not necessarily "sound" better. This is just one example of how amps can change without the masses knowing about it. Amplifiers are an important part of your system, but ultimately a high quality cd player and high quality speakers will give you a better grasp on your sound with a focus on the latter. Speakers make all the difference. Amplifiers just make sure that they are taking the signal from the cd player and getting it to your speakers with power, control, and purity. If you want to spend 1000 on an amp and a set of components, spend 800 on your speakers and 200 on your amp. I guarantee it will sound better than if you bought 200 dollar speakers and an 800 dollar amp.This isnt to say that buying a quality amp will not give you benefits. It surely will. But you dont have to mortgage your house to get a good amp, save that for your speakers
.
When you spend your money on your system, you want to buy good sounding, long lasting, and efficient equipment. It is true that amplifiers all do the same thing, amplify. But what sets "most" amplifiers apart? Marketing. Occationally some amps come with really innovative FUNCTIONAL features that either keep them cool under hot temperatures and/or are built incredibly well, but most amps are just run-of-the-mill and boring. When it comes to an amplifier for your highs/mids, (in my opinion, the most critical of the audible bands) you want something that sounds good and wont shut off on you when you jam for a couple hours on a road trip. I have always been a fan of the Precision Power amplifiers. The ones that I like, the Art Series.2, and the early Power Class (not including the .2) are not even made anymore. You can go to eBay and find them all over the place (beware some scam artists that sell dead, abused ones though). This is because they are BUILT well out of great internal parts and they sound wonderful.
What many people tend to do is study stats all day long and make their decision that way. Thats fine for the people that think something sounds better if a spec sheet tells them it does. Thats really not for me. Car audio started when some guys wanted to put great sound in their car. As materials and methods advanced, so did the car audio product. The term "audiophile" is what the basis of what car audio used to be, but has been slowly pushed away as companies focus more on flashy lights, pointless displays, and tv monitors galore. Car audio used to be about satisfying the need for your own great sound instead of getting people to look at your flashy, epileptic seisure inducing display of lights.
Many amp companies realized that they didnt have to build amps to please the audiophile anymore. Kicker, for example, used to make incredible amps. Their ZR series amps were phenomenal. One of my good car audio friends that would compete with ZR amps and Solo Baric subs got a sponsorship from Kicker and tells me all the time that his old Kicker equipment sounds better than his brand new Kicker stuff. He did add that the new subwoofer technology does impress him and that it has developed subs to handle more power, but not necessarily "sound" better. This is just one example of how amps can change without the masses knowing about it. Amplifiers are an important part of your system, but ultimately a high quality cd player and high quality speakers will give you a better grasp on your sound with a focus on the latter. Speakers make all the difference. Amplifiers just make sure that they are taking the signal from the cd player and getting it to your speakers with power, control, and purity. If you want to spend 1000 on an amp and a set of components, spend 800 on your speakers and 200 on your amp. I guarantee it will sound better than if you bought 200 dollar speakers and an 800 dollar amp.This isnt to say that buying a quality amp will not give you benefits. It surely will. But you dont have to mortgage your house to get a good amp, save that for your speakers
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audtatious
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I couldn't agree any less.
That is why I am currently running a 12-14yo a/d/s amp. It was made to last, is the cleanest brand I have used, can be had cheaply on ebay, and even does a great job on my sub. Of course, it does not have all the internal Xover functions of the newer amps, but in my opinion it is a "quality over functionality" amp.
Same as with the Art series amps. I loved my A600 (non-.2 version) and would be using it now if the power supply did not have a problem. If I needed an amp, I would pick up an older Orion, SoundStream, a/d/s, or PPI anyday as long as it was in excellant condition.
That is why I am currently running a 12-14yo a/d/s amp. It was made to last, is the cleanest brand I have used, can be had cheaply on ebay, and even does a great job on my sub. Of course, it does not have all the internal Xover functions of the newer amps, but in my opinion it is a "quality over functionality" amp.
Same as with the Art series amps. I loved my A600 (non-.2 version) and would be using it now if the power supply did not have a problem. If I needed an amp, I would pick up an older Orion, SoundStream, a/d/s, or PPI anyday as long as it was in excellant condition.
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audtatious
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LOL
Yeah, depends on how you read it
We definately both seem to be old-school, which is not really a bad thing in my book. Heck, I was jammin to cassettes way before CD's were out. I get a "warm fuzzy" thinking about my 1st nice system consisting of a Kenwood DIN HU w/20wpc Kenwood amp, 5.25" door speaks and origional JBL Titanium series 6x9's in the rear (those speakers were the BOMB back then and looked pretty kewl with the brushed aluminum surrounds). Stereo shops where just coming out with seperates then and subs were not around yet....
Yeah, depends on how you read it
We definately both seem to be old-school, which is not really a bad thing in my book. Heck, I was jammin to cassettes way before CD's were out. I get a "warm fuzzy" thinking about my 1st nice system consisting of a Kenwood DIN HU w/20wpc Kenwood amp, 5.25" door speaks and origional JBL Titanium series 6x9's in the rear (those speakers were the BOMB back then and looked pretty kewl with the brushed aluminum surrounds). Stereo shops where just coming out with seperates then and subs were not around yet....
Add me to the old school list, but I AM old 
Just picked up a PG MS-275, was hoping for an M44, and let a Route 66 getaway, but the MS-275 will do all I ever want and then some.
Now (like Wes), I need to work through adding the amp and TBD sub to my existing Bose system. Yes, IT IS overkill as far as adding a little low end to a stock system, but it's long term purpose is to be put in a fun weekend toy/project car in the next couple of years. Just gonna enjoy it until that all comes together.
Just picked up a PG MS-275, was hoping for an M44, and let a Route 66 getaway, but the MS-275 will do all I ever want and then some.
Now (like Wes), I need to work through adding the amp and TBD sub to my existing Bose system. Yes, IT IS overkill as far as adding a little low end to a stock system, but it's long term purpose is to be put in a fun weekend toy/project car in the next couple of years. Just gonna enjoy it until that all comes together.
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audtatious
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