Anyone else want a dry sump???

[tmorgan4]

With the amount of people spinning bearings I think I'm wanting a dry sump.

I already contacted dailey engineering who I believe is among the best in the business. Check their website and see for yourself.

Bill has built a few of these pans for the Nissan backed race cars a long time ago. He said a pan will cost about $1350 and I need to pay $1000 for tooling unless I find 3 guys that want them.

He suggested a 5 stage pump for an additional $1870 but for now my concern is the pan.

Am I alone in this or is anyone else looking for something similar???

[Infinitiguy19]

At that amount I doubt many would really step up. But I don't know what they go for myself.

[tmorgan4]

It's definitely not cheap but it's about as good as you can get for oil starvation protection. Anyone????

[kingkilburn]

Didn't John Dixon go dry sump? Maybe you can get in touch with who ever made that setup. I would think it would be cheaper since the development is done already.

[tmorgan4]

He sure did. I'm trying to get some more info on his setup but haven't been able to get in touch with him from replying to his topics. Maybe I will try sending an email.

[elwesso]

what would really be the advantage, except for those who have to modify their oil pans anyway, over like an accusummp or whatever?

[kingkilburn]

Accususump is a one time band aide. Once it repressurises the oil it has to be recharged.

If you lose pressure with a drysump you have some serious issues.

The other big plus is that it allows you to lower the engine quite a bit.

After looking at their site again I would be interested in a billet pan with an integral pump system and filter. If I had $3k I would be all over that.

[tmorgan4]

Exactly.

Dry sumps have a TON of advantages, with the few added disadvantages being cost and complexity.

Dry sumps free up horsepower, and they'll allow the engine to be mounted lower in the car as already mentioned. This would be huge for the guys that don't want to cut a hole in the hood...everything would fit!

You shouldn't ever have to worry about oil starvation with a dry sump unless you're trying to run the car upside down.

Bill Dailey said the pan he'd make would closely resemble this one. These machined pans have features that you just can't make on a fabricated pan.

http://www.daileyengineering.com/ls_deep_pan.htm



My idea for this project is to get an oil pan made by a guy like Bill Dailey and source a pump on my own. Dry sump pumps have a LOW re-sale value if you've ever checked eBay. I won't be spending $1900 on a pump....you can get good used pumps for $500.

Once the oil pan is made, everything else is relatively easy to find. I have an email in to ATI about a custom damper with a gilmer drive. This is an upgrade, anyway.

If anyone else is interested in just a pan, we can figure everything else out later!

[kingkilburn]

Will another manufacturers pump work with this type of integrated pan?

[tmorgan4]

Good question, and as far as I know...NO. And that IS a concern for a couple reasons. I wouldn't be opposed to having a pan made with AN fittings instead.

#1) With the integrated pan you have one option to mount the pump. This might not work for everyone's set up.

#2) Finding a used pump will be harder.

Bill Dailey says that he builds them as an integrated unit on some (notice that not all are like this) to simplify plumbing and lower cost. It eliminates running the scavenge lines from the sump to the pump so you end up buying a few less fittings and hose.

Look at the pictures here. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...Parts

[car nut]

I might be interested, but I could do a 3qt accusump for ~$500. I know dry sumps are great, but are the really that much better?

[kingkilburn]

If you can afford it yes.

[tmorgan4]

Dry sumps are WAY better than an Accusump. Accusumps work, no doubt. But it's not the same.

I'll try and type out a better response later. I'm searching for other guys that might be willing to make a pan just to get more options.

See my other thread on crank dampers.

[solidglobe]

I am interested but i have been in the process of making my own sry sump system, it wont be as nice as the daley which i would like to get i just dont have 4k to spend on the oil system.i barely have 4k in my project including car engine and turbo.i did see the crank damper thread which is interesting too but i just want one set up for alt and oil pump gear on it.as for my own dry sump set up so far the pan in materials cost me about $50 but havent had time to work on it. one day i will show pics.

[solidglobe]

iv

I might be interested, but I could do a 3qt accusump for ~$500. I know dry sumps are great, but are the really that much better?

ive seen 3qt accusump for 199$ not sure the rest on summit. but thats just for accusump.

[car nut]

Regardless, you guys should try and set something up. I personally won't have the money for something like that, but it's the type of thing the VH needs to be pushed further into the aftermarket spotlight.

ivive seen 3qt accusump for 199$ not sure the rest on summit. but thats just for accusump.

Yeah, that's just for the tank and the gauge though. I could probably set the whole thing up for under $400.

[darinz]

The only reason I haven't gone woth a dry sump is cost! ie i can't afford it at the moment but when I can it will happen.

[elwesso]

I mean as long as you kept an eye on the gauge and kept it filled up, it would seem like it would be fine... I mean its just charged with air, so you can easily hook it up to an air compressor for quick recharging.. Hell i bet one of those little ciggy lighter compressors would do it.

a dry sump is definitely attractive for those who need to modify the pan, but maybe not so much for those who dont?

[elwesso]

I mean as long as you kept an eye on the gauge and kept it filled up, it would seem like it would be fine... I mean its just charged with air, so you can easily hook it up to an air compressor for quick recharging.. Hell i bet one of those little ciggy lighter compressors would do it.

a dry sump is definitely attractive for those who need to modify the pan, but maybe not so much for those who dont?

maybe I dont understand the concept fully, but it seems like a winner.

[tmorgan4]

The only reason I haven't gone woth a dry sump is cost! ie i can't afford it at the moment but when I can it will happen.

Maybe I'll have a few things figured out by the time you need it. Can't promise anything yet though!

I've also been talking to Gary from ARE (http://www.drysump.com/index1.htm) and I think he's going to be a little bit cheaper. All of his pans are cast and then machined, but I sent him a dimensioned oil pan drawing and he said the Chevy LS engines and one of the Fords have a very similar shape. He was confident that he could make one work by modifying one of them a little bit.

He sells his own line of pumps as well, but at this point I just need to find a pan. Actually, I should find a crank pulley first because if I can't drive the dry sump pump it's not going to work.

[tmorgan4]

There are a few things I don't like about an Accusump. Not that they're all that bad (they work for a lot of people!) but a dry sump is a huge improvement.

Accusumps can be plumbed a few different ways. Some don't even use a valve, so that as soon as the engine starts cranking your oil pump is now trying to fill the Accusump AND get oil to your engine. If you run an electric valve that shuts before the engine is turned off you don't have this issue.

The Accusump will only buy you a few seconds of time. I've heard guys say it takes 45 seconds for a 3 quart Accusump to lose pressure in LS engines which is really pretty good, but for those of us that want to practically drive with our car on it's side, 45 seconds isn't enough.

The cost on the Accusump adds up when you have to buy an oil filter adapter ($100), the Accusump ($2-300), and all the hoses and fittings. This is nothing compared to a dry sump, but Accusumps aren't THAT cheap either. If you add in electric control valves and gauges you can spend $600 on a setup easy.

[Crazyirish]

Holy Crap!!

Thats awesome. I bet that even does a fair bit for bottem end rigidity. Very pretty.

[kingkilburn]

Could you use this(1) type of pulley and put it in the location of the stock power steering pump(2)?

1

2

[tmorgan4]

No kidding. Check out this one on a VQ that does into the bearing caps. It's a cool idea but it would suck to pull the pan!

https://www.fontananissanracin....html

[darinz]

The only reason I haven't gone woth a dry sump is cost! ie i can't afford it at the moment but when I can it will happen.

Maybe I'll have a few things figured out by the time you need it. Can't promise anything yet though!

I've also been talking to Gary from ARE (http://www.drysump.com/index1.htm) and I think he's going to be a little bit cheaper. All of his pans are cast and then machined, but I sent him a dimensioned oil pan drawing and he said the Chevy LS engines and one of the Fords have a very similar shape. He was confident that he could make one work by modifying one of them a little bit.

He sells his own line of pumps as well, but at this point I just need to find a pan. Actually, I should find a crank pulley first because if I can't drive the dry sump pump it's not going to work.

So is it a race between us to actually get something back together so we can drive it?

Keep in touch over the dry sump though.

[tmorgan4]

I think I somehow overlooked your last post! You posted a minute before me so I never saw it.

From what I've seen, nobody wants to run a standard serpentine pulley on a dry sump because it can't afford any slip. Adding this HTD drive has been a huge ordeal but I think I've about got it figured out. Ross has been a HUGE help with the damper and has offered to build one but they're still expensive. Just under $1000 USD by the time you add the HTD or Gilmer setup to the front.

I kind of fell out of touch with Gary @ Armstrong Race Engineering about a pan. I've realized that although his pans are VERY nice....I think I'm just going to modify the bombproof aluminum pan I already built. All I need to do is add a couple of pick-ups and be done with it.

This project is mainly just being stalled due to $$$ so once I get a few parts...IT'S ON!!!

It's too bad that this forum is practically dead.........

[darinz]

$$$$$$ are my problem as well! The joys of owning a financial services business when the worlds finances fall apart. At least I'm still in business and it is picking up again so hopefully I can aford the rest of the parts before the end of the year!

[tmorgan4]

This is taking FOREVER! ATI is going to build a custom damper. I have to approve a drawing and then wait 60-90 days. Oh well...I'll need some time to collect the rest of the parts.

[David Steele]

The only people who would use these would be vehicles that pull G forces so high the oil won't stay at the pickup.

A drifter could use one, possibly, but then they can just change the sump and revise the pickup.

A drag racer can launch so hard oil comes out of the pickup.

A road racer... well I needn't even go there you should know this basic.

If you are keen enough you can actually do the pan, reducing some of these cost , though I won't be writing you a list on how.

Dailey pans are casted then machined so, you can go ahead and offer that $2500 lol.

[bohunk]

How large of a reservoir were you planning on using? And does anybody actually know how many lateral G's are necessary to starve the VH?

Sorry for the necropost