i'm trying to figure out the best cheap way to go about doing it. i've got a one thousand dollar budget for all needed to do the swap. anyone have any good cheap ideas about getting the engine and harness and all the other crap plus emissions? i was thinking about going to the local pick n pull and pulling one but i don't really know what to look for to see if it's any good. any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks.
anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
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sawyer's720
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Steveka24det
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Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
Look for engines with good oil and antifreeze
once thats done make sure you brought a jump and carry cause most pull it places takem out
get the keys and try firing it up after you get one fired up pull it , i would not waste time pulling one i couldnt fire up
once thats done make sure you brought a jump and carry cause most pull it places takem out
get the keys and try firing it up after you get one fired up pull it , i would not waste time pulling one i couldnt fire up
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sawyer's720
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- Car: 1984 Datsun 720
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
alright cool man. thanks for the input. i will definitely try that the next time i go to the wrecking yard.
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
I just finished this swap with a KA24E engine.
If you intend to use the stock Nissan computer, you will need the entire wiring harness from the computer forward to the dash and engine compartment, all of the associated relays, coil w/power transistor.
If you plan on using all of the emissions, you will need all of that equipment as well.
You will need a high pressure fuel pump. You can use the stock Hardbody fuel tank if you have fabrication skills, as the Hardbody tank will not fit the 720 without a good deal of work. Or you can get a replacement pump at your local autopart chain store for a 1986.5 720, as they use an external pump that provides adequate pressure and volume. About a hundred bucks...
A simpler solution is to use a standalone fuel injection and ignition controller. There's several companies out there that provide solutions. In my mind, this is the better solution as wiring is WHOLE LOT EASIER and straightforward, plus the added benefit of actually being able to tune and diagnose the vehicle.
In my swap, I'd say I've got just under $1000 into it. $300 for the motor, $450 for fuel and ignition controller, $100 for the pump, $20 for the wiring harness, and then the incidentals that you'll need (oil, antifreeze, fasteners, gas for trips to the junkyard, etc...)
If you intend to use the stock Nissan computer, you will need the entire wiring harness from the computer forward to the dash and engine compartment, all of the associated relays, coil w/power transistor.
If you plan on using all of the emissions, you will need all of that equipment as well.
You will need a high pressure fuel pump. You can use the stock Hardbody fuel tank if you have fabrication skills, as the Hardbody tank will not fit the 720 without a good deal of work. Or you can get a replacement pump at your local autopart chain store for a 1986.5 720, as they use an external pump that provides adequate pressure and volume. About a hundred bucks...
A simpler solution is to use a standalone fuel injection and ignition controller. There's several companies out there that provide solutions. In my mind, this is the better solution as wiring is WHOLE LOT EASIER and straightforward, plus the added benefit of actually being able to tune and diagnose the vehicle.
In my swap, I'd say I've got just under $1000 into it. $300 for the motor, $450 for fuel and ignition controller, $100 for the pump, $20 for the wiring harness, and then the incidentals that you'll need (oil, antifreeze, fasteners, gas for trips to the junkyard, etc...)
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
When using the truck ka24e/de, do you need to modify the motor mounts?
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sawyer's720
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:17 pm
- Car: 1984 Datsun 720
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
did you use a stand alone controller than?noface wrote:I just finished this swap with a KA24E engine.
If you intend to use the stock Nissan computer, you will need the entire wiring harness from the computer forward to the dash and engine compartment, all of the associated relays, coil w/power transistor.
If you plan on using all of the emissions, you will need all of that equipment as well.
You will need a high pressure fuel pump. You can use the stock Hardbody fuel tank if you have fabrication skills, as the Hardbody tank will not fit the 720 without a good deal of work. Or you can get a replacement pump at your local autopart chain store for a 1986.5 720, as they use an external pump that provides adequate pressure and volume. About a hundred bucks...
A simpler solution is to use a standalone fuel injection and ignition controller. There's several companies out there that provide solutions. In my mind, this is the better solution as wiring is WHOLE LOT EASIER and straightforward, plus the added benefit of actually being able to tune and diagnose the vehicle.
In my swap, I'd say I've got just under $1000 into it. $300 for the motor, $450 for fuel and ignition controller, $100 for the pump, $20 for the wiring harness, and then the incidentals that you'll need (oil, antifreeze, fasteners, gas for trips to the junkyard, etc...)
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
ShinHed: Yes you do have to modify the mounts, as the KA mounts at a different location and angle as compared to the Z24 in the 720. See my post here recently in this section here: ka24e-swap-85-720-4x4-t503290.html And if you need more info let me know...
Sawyer: I use a standalone controller for fuel and ignition control. I use MegaSquirt II for ignition and fuel control.
You can read about it here. Official site: http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
I bought the kit here: http://www.diyautotune.com/
If you choose this route, I can provide detailed info on my wiring, a copy of my current tune and configuration to get you up and running quick, saving you a ton of time. Basically, if you copied my setup, you should literally be able to start it and drive down the road the instant you're done wiring and bolting everything together. I had to dig around a lot to find enough info to get to the point I'm at. You'd really only need minor tuning for your specific engine, mostly due to elevation and the condition of your motor.
But if you choose something else, I can probably help with that too.
I chose the KA24E over the DE model due to the price, and the great down low torque the 3 valve head produces. After all, it's a truck motor... that I put in a truck, that's used like a truck... but that's just my preference. The DE model is close enough that my tune/config would get you running in the same amount of time, but you'd likely need a little more in depth tuning of the VE tables (fuel) to get to the optimum driveability and/or performance. If you choose a later model DE engine, I believe them to be distributorless, so that would be different than my setup, but still definitely do-able.
Sawyer: I use a standalone controller for fuel and ignition control. I use MegaSquirt II for ignition and fuel control.
You can read about it here. Official site: http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
I bought the kit here: http://www.diyautotune.com/
If you choose this route, I can provide detailed info on my wiring, a copy of my current tune and configuration to get you up and running quick, saving you a ton of time. Basically, if you copied my setup, you should literally be able to start it and drive down the road the instant you're done wiring and bolting everything together. I had to dig around a lot to find enough info to get to the point I'm at. You'd really only need minor tuning for your specific engine, mostly due to elevation and the condition of your motor.
But if you choose something else, I can probably help with that too.
I chose the KA24E over the DE model due to the price, and the great down low torque the 3 valve head produces. After all, it's a truck motor... that I put in a truck, that's used like a truck... but that's just my preference. The DE model is close enough that my tune/config would get you running in the same amount of time, but you'd likely need a little more in depth tuning of the VE tables (fuel) to get to the optimum driveability and/or performance. If you choose a later model DE engine, I believe them to be distributorless, so that would be different than my setup, but still definitely do-able.
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sawyer's720
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:17 pm
- Car: 1984 Datsun 720
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
wow thanks man. that's alot of great info and thanks for the links. as soon as i get my financial aid check im gonna try and find a nice motor to throw in. i know, steven replied but i was wondering what you thought about getting the engine from a yard. i don't really know what to look for to find if it is in good shape.
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sawyer's720
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:17 pm
- Car: 1984 Datsun 720
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
also wondering if you used the same exhaust piping from the original z24 or if you swapped in all new exhaust. and can the original coil be used?
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
I got the engine I have from a yard.
You just need to look at its condition.
Look at the exhaust ports to see if they're oily or carbon'd up, indicates it was burning oil.
Pull the valve cover (easy to do) and have a look...
Look down the throat of the throttle body and see if it's gummed up, black and sooty (mine was) (indicates a bad tune)
Rolle the crank over and listen for any sounds, while your turning it with a socket or whatever, you should be able to kinda tell if there's any grinding, binding, etc.
Look at the spark plugs for indication of how it was running. Also, pull the plug on the oil pan and watch for any water coming out of the pan.
My engine had 160k on it, no smoke, and now that it's tuned, runs like a champ!
I've got some issues with one injector that's kinda worn out, but I'll have that taken care of as soon as some extra funds become available.
Most yards will guarentee the motor you get for 30, 90 days, some even 6 months to a year. Expect to pay more for a better guarantee though. And don't be afraid to get one of these motors with over a 100k.. they last forever. Mine still builds 180psi on the compression gauge.
As far as exhaust, get the exhaust manifold, and exhaust pipe collector. The KA collector looks nearly identical to the Z24, but they're different. The KA has a bigger bolt pattern. I cut the collector off the Z24 existing header pipe and then welded the KA collector to my pipe, (after everything was bolted in place of course) and I was done with that... no big deal. I also cut some length off the header pipe to get the exhaust a little more tucked up into the frame so you can no longer see the exhaust pipe hanging down under the truck. Looks real clean now. FWIW, I believe the Z24 exhaust manifold will fit KA, but I never tried it. Some others here may be able to verify that, and if so, then you should be good to go if you want to go that route.
It's nice to have another 40hp in these trucks... goes down the road SO MUCH better. An my MPG went up 5mpg!
You just need to look at its condition.
Look at the exhaust ports to see if they're oily or carbon'd up, indicates it was burning oil.
Pull the valve cover (easy to do) and have a look...
Look down the throat of the throttle body and see if it's gummed up, black and sooty (mine was) (indicates a bad tune)
Rolle the crank over and listen for any sounds, while your turning it with a socket or whatever, you should be able to kinda tell if there's any grinding, binding, etc.
Look at the spark plugs for indication of how it was running. Also, pull the plug on the oil pan and watch for any water coming out of the pan.
My engine had 160k on it, no smoke, and now that it's tuned, runs like a champ!
I've got some issues with one injector that's kinda worn out, but I'll have that taken care of as soon as some extra funds become available.
Most yards will guarentee the motor you get for 30, 90 days, some even 6 months to a year. Expect to pay more for a better guarantee though. And don't be afraid to get one of these motors with over a 100k.. they last forever. Mine still builds 180psi on the compression gauge.
As far as exhaust, get the exhaust manifold, and exhaust pipe collector. The KA collector looks nearly identical to the Z24, but they're different. The KA has a bigger bolt pattern. I cut the collector off the Z24 existing header pipe and then welded the KA collector to my pipe, (after everything was bolted in place of course) and I was done with that... no big deal. I also cut some length off the header pipe to get the exhaust a little more tucked up into the frame so you can no longer see the exhaust pipe hanging down under the truck. Looks real clean now. FWIW, I believe the Z24 exhaust manifold will fit KA, but I never tried it. Some others here may be able to verify that, and if so, then you should be good to go if you want to go that route.
It's nice to have another 40hp in these trucks... goes down the road SO MUCH better. An my MPG went up 5mpg!
Last edited by noface on Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sawyer's720
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:17 pm
- Car: 1984 Datsun 720
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
yeah that's exactly what im looking for. my mpg is 18 combined, and that's easy on the pedal. i would love to pick up more. and horsepower is very nice. i'm usually floored going up a steep hill.
thanks alot for all the awesome information! i've been searching online for newsix months for some real instruction and now i think i have enough to really tackle the job.
one more question though. i've heard two different stories about fuel delivery. do you need just a high pressure fuel pump or do you need a high pressure fuel pump and a gas tank from a fuel injected model?
thanks alot for all the awesome information! i've been searching online for newsix months for some real instruction and now i think i have enough to really tackle the job.
one more question though. i've heard two different stories about fuel delivery. do you need just a high pressure fuel pump or do you need a high pressure fuel pump and a gas tank from a fuel injected model?
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
You only need an external high pressure pump.
I used a replacement fuel pump for a 1986.5 Fuel Injected 720. It's an external pump that I used to replace the stock electric carburetor pump. About $100 at you local AutoZone.
I didn't want to fool with mounting a different fuel tank, or figuring out if a later model injected pump would fit my current tank, so I took the easy route.
I used a replacement fuel pump for a 1986.5 Fuel Injected 720. It's an external pump that I used to replace the stock electric carburetor pump. About $100 at you local AutoZone.
I didn't want to fool with mounting a different fuel tank, or figuring out if a later model injected pump would fit my current tank, so I took the easy route.
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
where and how did you hook up the fuel pump?
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
Did you use the stock 720 radiator?
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
I used a stock replacement pump for a 1986.5 Nissan 720 (fuel injected) available at Autozone in the stock location. Simply replace the crb pump with the fuel injected one... Takes about a half hour, and the writing is already there... Simple The pump is made by airtex I think
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
Yea,i used the stock radiator, just had to get a long universal lower hose to fit
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
How can you tell the difference between a KA24E and a DE, and what model/make years did they come in?
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
The most obvious is the width of the head and valve cover. The DE will bea lot wider.
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
One distinguishing feature is that DE's have spark plug wires running through the valve cover, and E's have them off towards the exhaust side. They look different, different enough that you would not mistake one for the other once you have seen a few.
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PEZi
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Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
you can tell by the cam spots too... on the front of the head... there is a place for one cam on an E and 2 on a DE
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CT720RAT
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Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
Does it matter if the engine is an older one with OBD1 or a newer one with OBD2 to use that Megasquirt controller? I know of a ka24e from a 97 hardbody for $300, im wondering if i should jump on it.
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breadbox
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89 Koop
84 720 4x4KC - Location: Va Bch
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
kae from a truck is nice because the sump shouldn't need modifying. $300 is about right for the swap plus any extra stuff like new belts or Driveshaft(if needed not sure if the overall length with trans is much different than z24.
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
where did you get your harness? the one i got is beat up, and i want to start fresh w/ a new one.noface wrote: $20 for the wiring harness
Re: anyone done a ka-e or ka de swap?
It doesn't marr if the rhine you use came from an ODB 1 or 2. Unless of course you are planing to use the controllers that came with them or want to use shall the emission features. Megasquirt completely eliminates the factory computer. You engine doesn't know if it's odb 1 or 2... It's the computer controls.
You can set up MS to act like either one, such as redundant O2 sensors fire and aft of the converter to keep track of the converter operations.
In my build, I have no need for emissions, so I have a coolant temp sensor, intake temp sensor, MAP sensor, TPS, and of course an O2.
The KA.s also use a swirl control valve, which are butterflies inside the intake manifold that open and close at specific rpm, map, and coolant temp. Nissan uses these to control intake tract velocity. I was able to program this into megasquirt as well. Ask for further details.
$300 for a1997 engine is probably a good price. That's what I paid for my 1994 KA with all the accessories and mounts. I'd jump on it.
I got my wiring harness off of a 1995 truck at a salvage yard for $25. I smashed all the relays out of the truck as well.
You can set up MS to act like either one, such as redundant O2 sensors fire and aft of the converter to keep track of the converter operations.
In my build, I have no need for emissions, so I have a coolant temp sensor, intake temp sensor, MAP sensor, TPS, and of course an O2.
The KA.s also use a swirl control valve, which are butterflies inside the intake manifold that open and close at specific rpm, map, and coolant temp. Nissan uses these to control intake tract velocity. I was able to program this into megasquirt as well. Ask for further details.
$300 for a1997 engine is probably a good price. That's what I paid for my 1994 KA with all the accessories and mounts. I'd jump on it.
I got my wiring harness off of a 1995 truck at a salvage yard for $25. I smashed all the relays out of the truck as well.