Any Ka-t's with FMU

Information on the naturally-aspirated KA24E and KA24DE engines.
gyfer
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stock injectors is 285cc ?

8psi is far way too dangerous on FMU. I suggest 5psi max, prefferable 4psi on FMU. 10:1 FMU should do the trick, but I have 12:1 Vortech but my car is not running yet :) Or you could wait 2 more weeks, and I can give you my result on accurate A/F ratio on 12:1@4-5psi. :D


TomsMR2
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12:1 is WAAAAAAY too much fuel.

the fmax kit 7psi... which is belive is the limit. 80+ fuel rail psi scares me. the fmax kit goes over this, but has a late spooling turbo. imo, the hacked maf is a better choice.

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WDRacing
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I agree with Tom on that one, but you'd need new 370cc or greater side fed injectors or a new fuel rail and top fed injectors. I'm pretty sure with a FMIC and the FMU you'll be just fine at 7 psi for now. But look at upgrading...somthing like a hacked maf would work well. Couple of months and I'll be selling the MAFS with a fuel rail and injectors all dyno tuned to work as a set.

WD

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huguetpj
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couple of months? Really interested. Write me down on the "people I need to contact when MAFs are ready" list. I'm still working on modifying my stock ECU, but the hacked MAF idea sounds ok.

gyfer
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Yeah, 12:1 FMU is way too much fuel for 7psi, but I running 4psi-5psi or lower. I have 370cc, E-mange, and 6:1 FMU adjustment kit for later. I need to get the car going first.
TomsMR2 wrote:12:1 is WAAAAAAY too much fuel.

the fmax kit 7psi... which is belive is the limit. 80+ fuel rail psi scares me. the fmax kit goes over this, but has a late spooling turbo. imo, the hacked maf is a better choice.

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GirlRacerS14
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I agree, 12:1 is very rich. I'm running stock injectors with a Walbro fuel pump and Vortech FMU @12:1. I've been running it like that for a year and a half now. Car is running very rich but i've run it at 5psi and 10 psi. No problems other than excess fuel but I don't recommend that setup for long. I only used it so the car would be running while I work on getting the fuel set up the right way.

GR

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C-Kwik
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8 psi is getting a bit hairy. Ultimately, its going to depend on two things. 1st, the pressure the pump can provide at the needed fuel flow rate. 2nd, the ability of the injector to overcome the high fuel pressure. If you keep adding pressure, at some point you won't be able to open the injectors. As far as 12:1, being way too much fuel, it depends. Even with an 8:1 FMU, I doubt you will see a full 8:1 rise at 7 psi as RPM's rise. It will probably level out at some fuel pressure. And from that point on, the pump will provide the same amount of fuel regardless since it can't supply any more pressure. The 12:1 will just get to that point earlier. And being that even an 8:1 FMU will run mostly rich, the 12:1 will just be overkill.

I would try to keep that ECU and injector set-up you have even if you go to the NSport kit.

And I have a couple of recommendations if you get the Nsport kit. See if you can get a hold of a T04E-50 trim compressor section instead, especially if you are looking to increase the boost in the future. May cost a bit more, but will be more efficient at higher boost levels.

Second, before you install the NSport/Revhard Manifold, do some major prep work on it. The ports will not match the ports on the head. You will need to do a little bit of port matching. If you have an air powered dremel, it will go quickly. An electric dremel may take some time. Also, remove the cast flashings(Seams right where the two halves of the outer mold meet) and any sharp edges, particularly in the structural areas. These are places where cracking is most likely to start. Enlarge the holes where the studs from the head fit. The outer ones should be widened a little more than the inside ones. I actually had to do this just to get it to fit in the first place. Cut the mani to head flange so each port has it's own manifold(similar to the way the FMax mani is cut). And lastly, inspect inside each port carefully. I recently replaced my RevHard due to a major crack along a prior repair weld. I found some kind of a strange rod inside one of the ports of the new mani and had to remove it. I didn't prep the first one completely due to some other concerns, and I would have had it repaired except the crack went all the way through the wastegate flange. I would have taken pictures to show details of what I mean, but I had to get all the prep work done and the system assembled in less than a day. I did all that I mentioned above, and I'm sure it should go a long way in preventing any cracking in the future.

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C-Kwik
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JWT uses larger injectors though. The factory uses a 1:1 set-up. Even under vacuum, This way the pressure difference between the fuel system and the intake are always the same. This makes it much easier to provide consistent fuel metering. And the computer does not control the increase or decrease in fuel line pressure. The stock fuel pressure regulator does.

FMU's are just a way to get more fuel without retuning the engine for larger injectors. Essentially, fuel flow can be increased two ways in a EFI system with a given injector size. Either increase the injector pulse duration. Or increase the fuel pressure over the manifold pressure. Since duration can only get you so far, short of increasing the injector size, increasing fuel pressure is the only other way. Unfortunately, arbitratrily increasing the overall pressure will cause it to have too much fuel off boost. So an FMU, which is 1:1 when manifold pressure is 0 or less, but increases at a rate higher than 1:1 when manifold pressure is > 0.

Keep in mind, according to my E-Manage datalog with an FMU, I was maxking out the stock injector signal at about 5000 RPM. At about 4200 RPM, I hit about 80%. So somewhere between 4200 RPM and 5000 RPM, the injectors just stay open. If you were to max out the stock injectors with stock fuel pressure, you would go dead lean as RPM's rise. Even with an FMU, once you reach the max pressure in the pump can dish out, if you were to continue to increase RPM)perhaps beyond redline), you would eventually go lean.

If you looked at an A/F ration of a FMU, you'ld likely see the mixture go richer with more boost and RPM, and then lean slightly as the boost and fuel pressure stabalize, then go richer suddenly as the injectors fail open, then start leaning out as RPM's rise. The trick to choosing the correct ratio for the FMU is to make sure there is always at least enough fuel under all conditions given the max boost limit for the fuel system.

gyfer
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I will say depend on your goal HP. You might want to consider 440cc injectors :-)

TomsMR2
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.. i could be wrong.. but dont nsport kits run 7:1 fmus?

JWT tunes very conservatively. they must do this to maintain reliability.. they'd rather have your engine run crappyly rich but safe... instead of maybe perfect, or maybe dangerously lean.. so imo, JWT really should be piggy backed to clip the injectors down, or possibly up. they have no idea what turbo you're gonna use, or how its all gonna react.. they just know your injector size, and that some turbo is slapped on.

the cost of jwt+an injector controller (ie: safc or similar) is getting pretty high. id rather look at other options.

bruinbear714
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I don't mean to slander anyone's business... but before you spend $3500 on a turbo kit, look here:

link to freshalloy post

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C-Kwik
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Actually you should be referring to libel. Slander is spoken. Libel is written. Someone needs to wacth Spiderman.

And actually it's not either. Since it would have to be a false statement to be libel or slander. That is just someone else's account of something that happened to him.

Just being a smartass...=)

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WDRacing
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Woah there....C-Kwik, thats enough of that profanity.

fredb
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Well I just thought I'd chime in with my experience with KA-t's and FMU's. I've had mine turbocharged for over 8-9 months now and have had no problems with any kind of lean running situations or detonation, etc. ---- I run 8-9 psi with a 7:1 FMU, Walbro 255 hi flow/pressure fuel pump and stock injectors. Like I said, it runs nice and rich on my A/F gauge and I've never heard any detonation so 8-9 psi is safe for me on my KA with an FMU.

fredb

gyfer
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Just KA with a FMU ? nothing else ? how about injectors ?

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WDRacing
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Never go over 9 psi with an FMU as the only source of enrichment. I thought the O2 was in the collector which reads all of the runners??? I've never seen one on the #1...ever.

A knock sensor is a better way to make sure your not having trouble with detonation.

WD

fredb
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If you have a turbo ka then you will have a custom manifold. Custom turbo manifolds are never built with a fitting for an o2 sensor as far as I've seen which leaves it up to the owner to mount the sensor in the down pipe. This eleminates the problem of your sensor's reading being biased toward one cylinder or the other.

fredb

PMan_S13
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My O2 sensor is in the collector right after the manifold... so mine reads all cylinders.

This is on a '91 S13.

Nathan
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Hmm, so what I'm getting out of all of this is that with a 1:1 rising rate FPR set at a little bit higher base pressure (what exactly is the stock pressure?) feeding 370cc injectors, tuned with an S-AFC II (mostly just to adjust the curve and compensate for the bigger injectors and 300zx MAF that I have sitting around :)) I should be just fine on a T3/T04e running up to around 11 psi of boost, maybe more if the fuel ratio holds up on the dyno.

PMan_S13
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I don't think you understood me.. I only have one O2 sensor and it is in the collector, there is not another one on the #1 exhaust runner.

I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make... from what you said to fredb you seem to have conflicting statements...

I was just stating that the S13 is possibly different from your '98 S14. And because WDRacing was taken by the fact that the sensor was not reading all cylinders, I wanted him to know that at least the '91 240's have their O2 sensor in the collector


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