Any high power Q's around?

[driftjunke]

Anyone around here running 400+ NA on their VH45DE? Just curious what type of numbers everyone is laying down.

E

[Q45tech]

Getting much more than 340 lb/ft from a NA 4.5 liter is tough while still meeting even weak 1990 emission standards.........even if you raised the HP peak to 6900 [via new cams and intake/exhaust design] you would be lucky to exceed 370 HP.

Even the new LS460 [direct injection] only makes 380 HP from 4.6 liters.

The new 6.0 liter Corvette only makes 400HP/400lb/ft based on displacement our engines would make 300/300 at the same level of tune.

[chinaonnitrous]

But if emissions wasn't a concern. I belive it could be done. Too much to disucss at 2:43 am

[Jesda]

I think every performance enthusiast should move to Indiana and see what they can do.

[driftjunke]

I guess 300 in a 240 will be enough until we build a turbo setup for the VH.

E

[Rex]

I guess 300 in a 240 will be enough until we build a turbo setup for the VH.

E

Look for posts by 450zxtt, he has a twin turbo'ed VH45 in a Z32, mated to a 5 speed. Very nice .

And then there's a couple crazy Aussie guys with wild/outlandish set ups.

[maxnix]

If one wanted to throw lots of bucks at it, might look at new Cayenne twin turbo set up as it is around 521 HP. This makes it the most powerful Porsche engine ever after the 5.5L V10 in the Carrera GT. Needless to say, internals and ECM mapping would have to be revised, transmission custom built, and space found in the G50 engine bay for the add-on devices, including large inter coolers and larger radiator.

What is interesting is the Porsche V8 is it is most similar to the VH45DE in that it is a 4 valve DOHC closed deck design.

[maxnix]

The new 6.0 liter Corvette only makes 400HP/400lb/ft based on displacement our engines would make 300/300 at the same level of tune.

Gotta love low tech 2 valve pushrod OHV heads.

[Jesda]

The Corvette engine also consumes a very small physical space, revs to 7000, costs little to manufacture, and does 27mpg on the highway. Its low weight and physical size allows for better positioning and more balanced handling -- a configuration inspired by the handling gurus at Mazda.

Displacement matters little when your engine is the size of Texas and drinks like Whitney Houston. HP/liter is a pointless argument with little real-world relevance.

[elwesso]

Despite how "low tech" the corvette motor is, nissan still doesnt have any of their "high tech" engines over 400HP.

To the original poster: Youll find boost is by far the easiest way to go... that or just gas the m'fr

[maxnix]

The Corvette engine also consumes a very small physical space, revs to 7000, costs little to manufacture, and does 27mpg on the highway. Its low weight and physical size allows for better positioning and more balanced handling -- a configuration inspired by the handling gurus at Mazda.

Displacement matters little when your engine is the size of Texas and drinks like Whitney Houston. HP/liter is a pointless argument with little real-world relevance.

Yep, that's why all the F1 teams use them.

[HashiriyaS14]

discrete output is most important in two scenarios, neither of which applies to anything other than balls-out driving:

1.) Series regulations that limit displacement. Obviously, this makes hp/liter singularly important.

2.) Serious weight conservation. It is better to make 300hp out of a 2-liter at 15,000rpm than it is to make 300hp out of a 5-liter at 4500rpm when racing, period. This is because you are *always* at the top of the powerband, on boil 100% of the time. You'd rather make that power with the smaller, lighter engine than with the larger heavier one, because the larger one's low-end advantages are irrelevant when racing.

Obviously, for any sort of daily application, neither of these are terribly applicable.

The one advantage that the high-revving, less-tractable engines have on a daily basis is that if you keep them at lower rpm, they get respectable mileage, while a larger V8 or something might do okay, but it'll never do as well as the 2-liter, all other things equal. This is why the S2k is such a great car, because in daily applications, it'll sip gas, but on the track, it screams. It does *not* however, make for a FUN daily vehicle, as you have to rev the piss out of it to get it to do anything entertaining.

So as always, it all depends on what you want out of your car.

In regards to the question at hand, I'm like 99.99999% certain that someone makes a VH45DE stroker kit. I don't recall who it is, it isn't Impul (they do a VK stroker), but I know it exists. I imagine that with a 5-liter or 5.1 liter stroker, and a couple of bolt-ons, you could make 400hp all NA and be quite driveable indeed.

[Jeff Williams]

The new 6.0 liter Corvette only makes 400HP/400lb/ft based on displacement our engines would make 300/300 at the same level of tune.

The new Z06 makes 505/475 with a 7.0 litre engine.

Where the OHV engine really shines is the low-RPM torque. Which, in my opinion, is where you "feel" the most in the buttometer.

Can you imagine the size of a 7.0 litre DOHC engine? It definitely would not fit between the front suspension of the new C6.
Modified by Jeff Williams at 7:19 AM 1/26/2006

[Jesda]

Yep, that's why all the F1 teams use them.

Hey there, Apple? I want you to meet your arch nemesis, the orange.

[driftjunke]

I talked to Ed over at Ed Pink Engines, in Cali I beleive today, about building us a high HP VH45, they called me back with a couple of Q's. They can either do us a 650hp race gas built VH, or a 400hp pump gas built VH, getting prices tommorrow, but they have been well known for building the IRL VH motors.

Also , 450ZXTT is about 30 minutes from me, Slim and I have been going over alot on the VH45DETT into a S13, we're gonna keep it simple for now and rock it in NA, but we're doing it in 2 S13's. We will be using the Z32 transmission with an adaptor plate, and we will make a couple extra plates for those interested in doing the manual conversion on their Q's.

E

[Rex]

... We will be using the Z32 transmission with an adaptor plate, and we will make a couple extra plates for those interested in doing the manual conversion on their Q's.

E

Let me bold that to get a few peoples attention.

[elwesso]

Cool stuff! whats your name so i can mentioni it next time i talk to slim

[Q45tech]

Scares me when people speak of HP instead of peak torque output.......because you don't know at what rpm they are proposing.Because just increasing rpm from 5.5k>8k would bump HP by 45% At least Pinks 400HP on conventional gas [what you might be able to find at most gas stations in US] is believable.

Just wait til you get the $15,000 quote, we have gone thru this exercise dozens of times: rods, pistons, cams, springs, new runners and plenum. Custom engine management and headers.

Oem Q injectors are good to 450 HP [NA] at 43.4 psi [3 bar].

"The new Z06 makes 505/500 with a 7.0 litre engine.""The engine is a 7-liter V-8, rated 505 horsepower [at 6300 rpm] and 475 pounds-feet of torque." per spechttp://www.exoticcarshare.com/Corvette_Z06.htm

What a pig no more efficient than a old Q motor 500/7=71.43 ...............x 4.494=321 lb/ft475/7=67.85................x 4.494=305 lb/ft

Changing Q rings so it burns a little oil could provide 12-15 more HP alone.

[qship96]

Changing rings so it burns a little oil could provide 15 more HP alone.[/QUOTE]

maybe I should stop changing that damn Redline oil every 5,000 miles afterall !!!!

[maxnix]

Where the OHV engine really shines is the low-RPM torque. Which, in my opinion, is where you "feel" the most in the buttometer.

Can you imagine the size of a 7.0 litre DOHC engine? It definitely would not fit between the front suspension of the new C6.

Yeah, but where they fail is high speed passing or anywhere in upper RPM ranges.

Ford make a SOHC 7 liter back in the sixties. Only made it inot one astronaut's Galaxie 500 and Connie Kalitta's top fuel cars.

Current Lambo and Ferrari 6+ liter engines are far into the 600HP range. 7 liters may be coming soon.

Don't forget past MB 6L DOHC V12 and current 6.5L SOHC V12, BMW 6L V12 also.

As Dennis has noted, as capacities start to increase above 4.5L on a V8, efficiencies diminish.

[Q45tech]

Actually there are accurate rules of thumb for engine sizes to optimize efficiency and long life:3.0 liters for 6 cylinders4.0 liters for V85.0 liters for V106.0 liters for V12The displacement need to be 500cc per cylinder.

As you see by all manufactures they are stretching at the expense of oil usage and engine life.

Of course you can cheat by going larger at the expense of some important parameters.

Just as there is an almost perfect rod length to bore stroke ratio.....bore diameter= ring diameter = major source of friction.

[TgduMg]

Getting much more than 340 lb/ft from a NA 4.5 liter is tough while still meeting even weak 1990 emission standards.........even if you raised the HP peak to 6900 [via new cams and intake/exhaust design] you would be lucky to exceed 370 HP.

Even the new LS460 [direct injection] only makes 380 HP from 4.6 liters.

I imagine that with a 5-liter or 5.1 liter stroker, and a couple of bolt-ons, you could make 400hp all NA and be quite driveable indeed.

Scares me when people speak of HP instead of peak torque output.......because you don't know at what rpm they are proposing.Because just increasing rpm from 5.5k>8k would bump HP by 45%

At least Pinks 400HP on conventional gas [what you might be able to find at most gas stations in US] is believable.

How about 394 to 400 HP from an NA 4.2 liter V8 With a redline of 7500, maximum horsepower is attained at 7000 RPM in the Ferrari/Maserati 4.2 V8. Maximum torque equals the VK45DE's 333 lb/ft, but at 500 greater RPM than the VK & VH45DE's (292 lb/ft rated) peak torque RPM.

So though they are right around 400 horses, the Italians are still 7 lb/ft shy of 340. And of course, I'm sure it is not as reliable, trouble free or will last as long as a Nissan DOHC V8.

Just wait til you get the $15,000 quote, we have gone thru this exercise dozens of times: rods, pistons, cams, springs, new runners and plenum. Custom engine management and headers. Oem Q injectors are good to 450 HP [NA] at 43.4 psi [3 bar].

Rsiwicki and Sijoko are already within a breath of where I'd like to be performance wise with a G50.

So DriftJunke, please let us know how much moola Ed Pink Engines wants to build a 400 HP VH45. Because we just got Powerball in Oklahoma, and I'm gonna play!

Danisiti 1

[driftjunke]

I'm not too worried about Ed's motors, price tag will be very high and not too far from what we could build ourselves. We're dropping the motor and transmission this week, to figure out our mount setup, and design our adapter plate. Hope fully we'll have these 2 running by mid feburary, twin turboed by the end of March. Still just hoping it will be fun in a S13 NA with a lightweight flwheel, twin plate Z32 clutch, Z32 transmission, and the stock S13 4.09 VLSD. Think we should have fun?

E

[Jesda]

Dennis, when a Corvette comes riding up on your tail in the left lane, be sure to shake your fist and tell them how terribly inefficient they are!

That'll show 'em. Yeah, right in the jugular!

[Jesda]

maybe I should stop changing that damn Redline oil every 5,000 miles afterall !!!!

You could always swap in a VK45 or Northstar. They're worn out from the factory for your convenience.

driftjunke: Cant wait to see what you come up with! Few engines sound as melodically sweet as a VH45 at high revs.

[elwesso]

LOL!!!!!!!! I agree Jesda!

[5seryan]

Dennis, when a Corvette comes riding up on your tail in the left lane, be sure to shake your fist and tell them how terribly inefficient they are!

That'll show 'em. Yeah, right in the jugular!

PRICELESS.

[defrag010]

Changing Q rings so it burns a little oil could provide 12-15 more HP alone.

I never knew that a loose ring seal would create more horsepower. What are we all thinking when we hone our cylinders and put new rings in??

I hope you're not talking about compression rings. If you're not, I don't see how loose oil control rings can create more horsepower apart from curing ring flutter.

[one ton garage]

I think i mentioned it before, but I've always thought that it'd be great to look at the last-gen ford cobra mod motor for inspiration... it's a 4.6L DOHC motor that came from the factory with forged internals to accomodate a blower. I remember reading in I believe an old issue of Super Rod where they removed the supercharger and swapped on an n/a gt manifold, bolted in some more n/a-friendly cams, and, with the static cr still being a little low for forced-induction use, still managed to post some amazing dyno numbers. Then they bolted on a twin turbo kit, and all I remember is that they eventually got it to 900hp+ at around 19psi or so. Memory on the whole article is a bit fuzzy, but all I remember thinking was... hmmm, 4.6L DOHC V8... that's sorta not too far off from what we have!

[elwesso]

I agree OTG... You bring up great points...