Anti Lag theorizing

[Squirrel]

Your correct gasses will get hotter when they are compressed, but to get it to blow through the turbine it will expand, in turn getting colder. But if it is in gas form the entire time the temp change won't be as dramatic. So if you would use Nitrogen or Argon that remains in the gas form when stored, there is a possibility it could work. I think that this would really mess with an 02 sensor though.

[DanMathers1]

Right, but there are ways around 02 sensors. I mean I think that'd be the least of your worries if you had a way to reduce turbo lag. Ok, so nitrogen or argon. I'm pretty sure Argon is expensive, (isn't it what they use in really high quality windows?) So it comes back to nitrogen. And we can talk straight nitrogen now, like the kinda **** when huffed burns a whole in your lungs. So you inject that, hot, into the exhaust manifold.

Would it work to get a super strong bottle, and then heat the bottle causing the contents to come out hot? Obviously its not going to expand as much, but it should have enough heat that its not gonna cause anything to crack (remember everyone we're just theorizing here)

So how's that sound?

[DanMathers1]

And anyway, bout the 02 sensor. If you're just injecting straight N2 instead of NO2 then it shouldn't affect the 02 count.

[Toad[^_^]]

I learned how the so called mis-firing system works, AKA anti-lag system from a retired CART pit mechanic.

The misfiring sytem basically does not let the engine go into vacuum. There is a port that is added into the throttle body to keep the turbo spinning and the air pressurised, whether it being atmospheric, or 1-2 psi. The popping occurs because even as the car is at idle, there is excess fuel being dumped to keep the mixture from leaning out. So as soon as you get on the gas, you are at boost.

He said last he knew, the anti-lag system was being sold by some company in europe, (was it Haltech?) but didn't know if it was available over here. The system also puts a huge strain on the turbo, and manifold. He says that the turbo and manifold glow extremely red from using the setup.

But don't think you can just manually set something like that up. The system itself uses its own ecu, the engine is tuned to match.

I really thought about it, and researched it. The system is actually very costly.

did the throttle body port have an intake or anything? Maybe a forced induction hood specifically designed to provide air to that port?

[Squirrel]

You might be able to heat it up in the bottle. If it would blow it would be catastrophic though. I know Argon bottles I use at work are already at around 3,000 psi. But I guess you would have to get the bottle extemely hot to match the gasses going through your turbo. It might better to run a hard line along you down pipe so the gasses going through the line would get heat off of that and then inject the gas into you manifold.

[AceInhole]

my anti-lag setup:small turbo, large efficient FMIC. net result is a dyno chart that almost looks supercharged.

[DanMathers1]

Ok i got the million dollar idea. No one steall it cuz im gonna get a TM on it or somthing.

It starts with the BOV. Instead of releasing the air into the atmosphere why not run it into a storage tank of some sort where it gets compressed and released back into the system around the manifold. This way it wouldn't be overly cold. Also you wouldn't need to refil the bottle. just let it fill with the blow off from the turbo and then when needed have it injected into the manifold before the turbine.

well?

[Squirrel]

Its a good thought but if you think about it most people are gonna run maybe 20 psi at the high end. Blowing 20 psi through the manifold probably won't do much, because the tank will be depressurized almost instantly. I am assuming your blowing it through the exhaust manifold. Plus the tank will pressurize almost instantly not completly relieving the intake of pressure, giving you compressor surge to some degree. If the tank were equal in volume to all you piping, intercooler, etc. it would only be able to half the of the system. So if you were running 20 psi the bov dumping into the tank would only take the system down to 10 psi. That would be fairly nasty compressor surge, and that would be a big tank if you think about it.

[Squirrel]

Another thought on your tank idea though. Say you have a valve that slowly allows the tank to be pressurized will the car is climbing in the revs and closes once it reaches full boost. (this valve is not connected to the bov) After the bov fires say after a shift, the valve reopens into the intake (note: after compressor) giving the system 50% boost instantly. This is isn't 0 lag but it would help allowind the compressor to do the rest, probably at least halfing the time. This model was also assuming a tank size = in volume to all piping, i.c., etc. The valving would be complicated to get working and when bleeding off boost to the tank would somewhat increase lag but if done slowly throughout the boost curve probably wouldn't be noticeable. It could also not be allowed to start filling untill a certain boost level is reached such as 75% boost and then only slowly.

[crazee240sx]

CAT has already acomplished this problem on alot of their V-8 desiels. They commonly use a 6-14/71 blower to bring the motor up to "proper atmoshperic pressure" to produce huge amounts of boost. Using the blower as pretty much a starter motor, the supercharger will give the off idle response most users are looking for, once the revs are high enough, the turbo passes the effecincy of the blower, and the engine is then on turbo boost rather than supercharged. When the turbo is spooling, the supercharger is just along for the ride. I rebuilt one of these motors for a construction company, what a piece of art work. Nothing like a detriot blower with a turbo stacked on it..

[detforme]

many standalone fuel systems offer the anti -lag system. It does retard the timing. i know some people with it and have never heard complaints. but, to my understanding the system does not engage unless your launching with the clutch in.

[nightwalker]

I've noticed that people confuse the anti-lag system with a rev launch control system.

The launch control system, lets you hold a specific RPM, while being full on the throttle. You let off the clutch and whatever you are using to hold the RPM at the same time, and BOOM! out of the whole boostin already.

Tha anti-lag/misfiring system is working at all times. Not just the launch.

[bvanev]

I was checking out carcraft.com today. One thing that I came across was the dynamics of coating the exhaust system. Most people have heard of coating the outside of the manifold and turbine side of the turbo. The idea there is to trap heat inside the manifold and turbine housing to aid the spooling of the turbine. If you were to coat the inside and outside of, say the down pipe and exhaust system the article says that you would increase the velocity of the exhaust gasses, improving the scavenging of exhaust gasses from the combustion chambers, or possibly in this case, helping to create a small vacuum on the outlet side of the turbine. The other advantage to doing this would be cooler under the hood temps, providing a cooler/denser air charge, and providing a slight relief for the cooling system. Couple this with a well matched turbo, short IC piping that suffers very little pressure loss, and a really stiff BOV that allows for absolutely zero leak off at high boost, and spool up times, commonly referred to as turbo lag, would be greatly reduced, for a fraction of the price of the "after burner", as cool as it would be.

Here is the link for the coatings article: http://www.carcraft.com/techar....html

[detforme]

i know about the two stage rev limiter. you can also buy those separately from fuel managements systems. but as i understood you can set the anti-lag system to not always engage, but i could be wrong.

[bcuz]

I say twin turbo sequential setup is the most fun

NOS is no fun, like someone else said, its like roids, anyone can pump themselves full of it and be the best athlete but they will also fall off real fast. same goes for too much nos in your motor

[DanMathers1]

So you're all telling me that after all this deicussion, the best way to do it is to use a supercharger/turbocharger conbination?