another smog failure thread

[poshatch]

hey everybody so i need to smog the new car and im having a bit of trouble.

took it in today to get it tested and these are the results

there are 3 categories: visual, functional, and emmissions

i passed the functional...

the visual failed because the chasis is a 1990 and the engine is a 1991 and my CAI is matching my engine therefore it does not match the chasis and is consittered "modified" in the fuel injection category (the fix for this is a stock CAI for the 1991 according to the tech.) *easy fix*

it also failed the egr visual because of a colapsed egr hose (he pointed out the hose and i believe i have a spare to replace it with, these were the only two in the visual) *easy fix*

my problem is with emmissions

HC:

15mph: max: 85, mine: 96 FAIL
25mph: max: 67, mine: 46 PASS

CO:

passed on both 15 and 25 mph

NO:

15mph: max: 565, mine: 2707 FAIL
25mph: max: 522, mine: 1343 FAIL

i think that the majority of the emmissions related stuff is dealt with by the the CAT right?

my ignition timing according to the test is 14 * BTDC would that have any affect on the emmissions?

also any other info would be great also i want to get this thing fixed legitly asap

thanks in advance everybody!

[poshatch]

bump...

nobody knows anything about the egr system on our cars on this forum?

i know its sorta useless but come on! lol

[LoserCard]

Well I really don't know what increases NO levels but you should set your timing to the stock timing which is 20BTDC, check your spark plugs, and check your O2 sensor to see if that is fouled up. Maybe run Sea Foam through your intake.

Tip: Running fuel with Denatured Alcohol (the greater ratio of alcohol to fuel the better) will drastically lower your emissions as it burns way cleaner. I am about to smog today and I am going to use a 50/50 ratio and see how it comes out. Good luck!

[badbob2121]

or just go the shady route... i see it happen all the time..

[poshatch]

or just go the shady route... i see it happen all the time..

this is my back up if my free test is a failure, i really want to just do it legitly so i know i dont have to deal with this crap again

ive been doing hours of research on the EGR systems on our cars and FSM looking at troubleshooting and daigrams, i guess just really learning the system

im sorta stoked i got 14* btdc cause i read in an atricle that 15* is the most power output for the ka and i adjusted just on driving feel alone so +1 to me, but yeah ill return it to factory 20* asap, got to find a friend with a light

i seafoamed it before i took it and it smoked alot i still got some left ill probably do that again

and when you say enhance the fuel with that alcohol mixture do you mean the seafoam itself or like an octane booster?

[Klits562]

You dont need a timing light to set your timing to 20*btdc there are markings on the crank pully idk which mark is 20* but if you do some more research i know its here somewere.
As for Hydro carbons thats unburnt crap iirc hydrocarbons are from low engine temp or maybe fromy our timing
as for NO, again iirc your EGR controls NOx get that line replaced and make sure your EGR is functional.

Yes a good cat can help reduce a majority of your gasses also

[poshatch]

You dont need a timing light to set your timing to 20*btdc there are markings on the crank pully idk which mark is 20* but if you do some more research i know its here somewere.
As for Hydro carbons thats unburnt crap iirc hydrocarbons are from low engine temp or maybe fromy our timing
as for NO, again iirc your EGR controls NOx get that line replaced and make sure your EGR is functional.

Yes a good cat can help reduce a majority of your gasses also

well thats good ill look for a write up or a how to on how to set it back to factory without the light im sure i can find it

i didnt realize that the EGR system performing improperly could have that much affect on the pollution, and little effect on the over all system of the car running. i did replace that line already and the light has not gone off so im going to have ot do a full check of it tommorrow and see if i can find any broken lines or kinked lines or a malfunctioning valve or solenoid in the EGR system and everything its connected too i think its just:

EGR valve, EGR solenoid (i think its tied into the carbon canister as well so checking that also) B.P.T valve as well and i think thats it right?

IACV-AAC would be a code 25
O2 would be a code 33
EGR temp (cali) would be a code 36

but when i was looking up codes online it said that an EGRC solenoid/valve would throw a 105? idono what this means...if a code 34 is the egr system and the code 105 is the egr solenoid/valve, that seems pretty controdicting to me...

[TheRealNap0le0n]

Well I really don't know what increases NO levels but you should set your timing to the stock timing which is 20BTDC, check your spark plugs, and check your O2 sensor to see if that is fouled up. Maybe run Sea Foam through your intake.

Tip: Running fuel with Denatured Alcohol (the greater ratio of alcohol to fuel the better) will drastically lower your emissions as it burns way cleaner. I am about to smog today and I am going to use a 50/50 ratio and see how it comes out. Good luck!

you are ruining your fuel system that way

[TheRealNap0le0n]

you need a timing light to set ign. timing, period.

and fix the EGR and smog it again, it introduces spent exhaust gas back into the intake system displacing fresh air and fuel during cruise conditions only. it reduces cylinder temps as well reducing NOx emmisions

and how can the tech tell the motor is from a 91 and not a 90... was your car originally a pig nose?

[poshatch]

well when registering the car the car is always registered the year it was made, thats a duhh 1990 is the chasis

i swapped in a 1991 engine, since the 1991 and 1990 engines are different the part numbers for the CAI that they sell for them are different, when the number dosnt match the application is consittered to be modified i.e. since the dohc intake and the sohc intake are different the number are different therefore not C.A.R.B approved for that application =[

[TheRealNap0le0n]

well when registering the car the car is always registered the year it was made, thats a duhh 1990 is the chasis

i swapped in a 1991 engine, since the 1991 and 1990 engines are different the part numbers for the CAI that they sell for them are different, when the number dosnt match the application is consittered to be modified i.e. since the dohc intake and the sohc intake are different the number are different therefore not C.A.R.B approved for that application =[

lol just pay the guy off and be done with it

[poshatch]

well i already paid for the initial test, i get a free retest, if it fails after i fixed everything, then yes lol

[LoserCard]

Well I really don't know what increases NO levels but you should set your timing to the stock timing which is 20BTDC, check your spark plugs, and check your O2 sensor to see if that is fouled up. Maybe run Sea Foam through your intake.

Tip: Running fuel with Denatured Alcohol (the greater ratio of alcohol to fuel the better) will drastically lower your emissions as it burns way cleaner. I am about to smog today and I am going to use a 50/50 ratio and see how it comes out. Good luck!

you are ruining your fuel system that way

Well obviously you wouldn't run this all the time considering you don't smog your car every day. After all, alcohol and rubber is bad joo joo. After smog, I drain and refill with fresh new fuel.

BTW, I failed HCs because my timing, spark plugs, and cat were jacked. Changed spark plugs, and fixed timing and ran 3k rpms for 10 min before smog to heat up my cat and passed with flying colors. Good luck!

[poshatch]

thanks brodi, i got a very good cat at my disposal laying around so i got to get that and install it and that will hopefully help alot

the timing on my car was jacked up 14* which i think was in part due to the knock sensor malfuncion retarding it a bit so i advanced it alot, gonna get a timing light on it before i take it in and run it slightly advanced. gonna check the splugs and see if they are good, i changed them not too long ago. got to make sure that the light stays off after all hte stuff ive done (just reset it yesterday) and go from there i guess

[Cone Junky]

To lower NOx keep your timing set at the lowest factory setting, this will help lower combustion temps. The EGR should also be verified as working properly, it too has a lot too do with lowering NOx.
You can also track down one range colder spark plugs and make sure you run a tank of Chevron Supreme through the system. Any high end premium fuel will help, but Chevron is definitely the best bet.

Make sure you have absolutely no exhaust leaks before the catalytic converter, they will make your NOx skyrocket.

[poshatch]

really??? i have an exhaust leak somewhere around that area i know for sure, i thought it was after but it might be before i dono, in either case, fixing all exhaust leaks is also on my list of stuff to do before i take it back to get smogged

[zer0c123]

hey any update on your smog progress? Similar problem here...

[poshatch]

hey any update on your smog progress? Similar problem here...

im holding off on the smog just to be sure everything is working properly

since i switched the ecu everythings been golden..no code and its been almost a whohle week

hopefully it continues to function correctly and im going to go pick up my old stock exhaust wtih a brand new cat

i was running similar numbers to these before on my last 240 and the cat helped out tremendously!

next friday is d-day so ill let you all know then!

[poshatch]

RESURECTION!!

alright so i took my car in for the 3rd time today and it did slightly worse than the 2nd time i took it in

i did REALLY GOOD the second time passed everything with flying colors except Nox at 15mph, max is 565 i got 855 which is close, i cut the standard for the 25mph on that by about 65 percent which was great

the things i did between test two and three was the following:

o rings between the header and the up pipe (old ones were fried and i read that upstream exhaust leaks cause high nox...dono why but it coudlnt hurt to switch)

cleaned the egr/swirl solenoids, vacuum lines, egr bpt valve and shortened the vacuum line between the bpt and the egr (it was long and wasnt kinked but this way its short and not kinked and i think flowing better

also added some of that octane booster (reading that higher octane burns slower and therefore colder and lowering nox...oppinions on this???)

advanced timing from 13 * to 16* (this was a bad idea i feel and will be undoing this)

and this 3rd time i failed HC at 15mph by a decent amount and increased my numbers all across the board but failing at 15mph again on NOx and passing at 25mph

THIS IS WHERE I NEED YOUR HELP

my plan is to lower the timing back down to 13 * or if possible 12 * (basically undoing the main factor in the difference between test 2 and 3)

re check all the exahust for leaks

keeping the octane booster???? should i keep this??? will it affect anything??? (if i do keep it it will bascially be the same as test 2 but with the octane booster)

also, my entre system is clean, and functioning, the fsm dosnt provide a spec for HOW WELL the egr should work only a test for if its working...however the egr has no sticking and seems to be functioning fine (but this is the main factor in lowering combustion temps and therefore nox...the problem being that the egr is barely open at the lower rpms my runs are around 1700rpms on 15mph and shouldnt be recieving much vacuum at that level and not activated that much??.)

the only thing that i can see stopping the system from passing (which it was designed to do) would be the cat...while the cat being better than my last one may not be up to par for this sort of smog??? (story behind the cat is i bought it new 2 years ago and used it for a month and it sat outside for about 2 years and never used...now idono if the weathering had affected it but its possible??)

sorry for the length but i really need some insight into this situation and its better that im detailed...smog cert. people or people dealing with the same situation would be of the upmost help! thank you!!!!

[poshatch]

ka meh ha meh ya bump!

[poshatch]

bump! i really need some help

IM SOO CLOSE TO PASSING i just need a little something extra to get me up over the edge of passing

does that alcohol thing work? i mean i guess the reasoning behind it would be it burns like gasoline but dosnt emit the emission they look for, and since the actual amount of gas being burned is less = less emissions

this correct? maybe i should get me some of that...

[Wc240]

put your timing to stock. its hard to diag emissions when timing is off. also, dont know where your getting tested but they are supposed to check your timing as part of the smog. that cat could be bad, could have it tested.
egr shouldnt really be flowing hardly at 15, mainly at the 25.
the alcohol trick works for hc and co, but it burns quicker so can raise the nox levels. if you have a vacuum gauge, T it in to the egr and go make a pull on the highway to make sure your getting enough backpressure to open it when it needs it, get the cat tested, what plugs are you running? yes they can make a big difference

[poshatch]

first leme say thanks for the reply i havnt been getting much info on the subject

i should probably get a vacuum gauge but my egr seems to work really well and lifts a decent amount and i cleaned that web of vacuum lines back there so there should be ample flow...and yea at 15mph im at like 1700rpms which according to the fsm really shouldnt open the egr much...

the cat i am pondering atm, it helped an INSANE amount but it did sit outside for 2 years so maybe the weathering of it has made it less usefull....?

im running like some medium grade plugs that are pretty new and very clean still i looked at them but they arnt expensive i might just go spring on some new ones then if they do make that big a difference thanks for the tip!!

as for the timing thing...the chasis is a 90, so there book says it should be timed to 15* btdc +/- 3*, i have a 91 dohc in there which is 20* btdc

my best test was at 13* and it did really well advancing it will only raise combustion temps and increase nox would it not? so these "mistake" seems to be working to my advantage...hc increase yea but the cat seems to be doing a great job at killing those really quick

[Wc240]

your right, there idiocy seems to be an advantage for you hahaha.
as far as plugs really all thats inprotant is that there NOT some uber fancy iridiums or double platinium bs. plain a** copper ones that are the proper heat range is what you want(as far as emissions)

unless water got into the cat, probably no damage. even if it did, probably still ok. but like i said, could always get it tested to make sure.
what about the motor itself? carbon build up will raise nox levels every time.
clutch fan good? may sound stupid but my car failed becouse the fan clutch was weak and was doin a s*** job of cooling.

no problem for the help. i do this all day so its nice to come on here and see if i can do it online lol

[poshatch]

well i appreciate the help alot,

i will probably go pick up some plugs then that are in the best heat range, ill look in the fsm for the proper ones and see if that will help push me over the edge of passing, its not like it could hurt and they arnt that expensive

the cat was outside in the rain for a whole winter but seems to be doing its job...i think the timing advance is what hurt me the most...its still shocking to think that this engine running at stock specs would fail miserably at smog

as for the motor itself, its a CHAMP! ive owned that motor for only 2 years but from day one i took care of that thing, filter and oil change on time every time, cleaning the oil, intake, injectors with seafoam everytime, starts up every time, idles perfect, the fastest ka of all my friends haha clutchf an is cool too...my temp is good, when i warm up the cat before i take it in chillin at 4k on the freeway dosnt do a thing to the temp