Another Republician Indicted

[telcoman]

Hopefully, the Dems will pick up another seat in the Senate?

From the New York Times

Alaska Senator Is Indicted on Corruption Charges By DAVID STOUT and DAVID M. HERSZENHORNPublished: July 30, 2008WASHINGTON — Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska, the longest-serving Republican senator in United States history and a figure of great influence in Washington as well as in his home state, has been indicted on federal corruption charges.

The indictment will surely reverberate through the November elections. Mr. Stevens, who has been in the Senate for 40 years, is up for re-election this year. Mark Begich, a popular Democratic mayor of Anchorage, hopes to supplant him.

The Justice Department scheduled a news conference for Tuesday afternoon to announce the indictment.

Republicans on Capitol Hill were already jittery over a lobbying and influence-peddling scandal related to the lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who is now in prison. Mr. Stevens’s troubles are not linked to that affair. Instead, they stem from his ties to an oil executive whose company won millions of dollars in federal contracts with the help of Mr. Stevens, whose home in Alaska was almost doubled in size in the renovation project.

Mr. Stevens is a former chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, and he is still on the panel. As chairman, he wielded huge influence, and did not hesitate to use it to steer money and projects to his state.

“No other senator fills so central a place in his state’s public and economic life as Ted Stevens of Alaska,” the Almanac of American Politics says. “Quite possibly, no other senator ever has.”

Mr. Stevens, one of only a handful of World War II veterans left in the Senate, grew up in Indiana and California and moved to Alaska in 1950, before it was a state, according to the political almanac. He first ran for the Senate in 1962, losing to Ernest Gruening, a Democrat. He was appointed to fill a vacant seat in the Senate in 1968 by the governor at the time, Walter Hickel, and has been re-elected six times since then.

Word spread through the Capitol like an electric current, prompting whispers among senators and staff. The Democrats were gathering in a room near the Senate chamber for their weekly conference lunch. Republicans, meanwhile, moved their lunch to the headquarters of the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee, a common change of venue when the primary topic of discussion is politics.

Mr. Stevens is seen as a legendary, even heroic, figure in Alaska, who played a crucial role in its achievement of statehood, which became official in 1959. According to Senate Republican rules, Mr. Stevens will have to give up his leadership positions, which include some hugely powerful posts, as the senior Republican on the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee and the defense appropriations subcommittee.

The long-running federal corruption investigation in Alaska has been hanging over Mr. Stevens as he faces his toughest re-election context in many years. Mr. Begich was expected to mount a strong challenge even before word of the indictment spread.

Alaska, which last elected a Democratic senator in 1974, is one of several seemingly unlikely states where Democrats believe they have a strong chance of pulling off upset victories in the November elections.

The indictment comes nearly a year after federal agents raided Mr. Stevens’s home as part of a continuing investigation into corruption that had already ensnared the senator’s son, Ben Stevens, who was then president of the State Senate.

Though lawmakers have been aware of the Justice Department inquiry for some time, the news of an indictment still came as something of a shock this week, as both houses of Congress are trying to wrap up legislative business before the monthlong August recess.

Senator Daniel Inouye, Democrat of Hawaii, who is the chairman of the defense appropriations subcommittee and a friend of Mr. Stevens, said that “he is innocent until proven guilty.” Mr. Inouye said he did not expect that the indictment would interfere with Senator Stevens’s ability to work in the Senate.

Other lawmakers, including Senator Barbara Boxer, Democrat of California, the chairwoman of the ethics committee, said they needed to know more about the indictment before commenting.

Telcoman

[smockers83]

I knew there was something scary about this guy when all of the GOP candidates were still running. Although he apparently has great influence in D.C. and Alaska, outside of those two places, no one knows anything about him.

One thing that I hate about these articles though is that they always say they "raided" someone's home or a business. When I think of a raid, I think of a battering ram and a SWAT team with semi autos and shot guns sweeping a building room by room. Why not just say they served a warrant or something, because the "raid" consists of guys in suits and cameras.

[AZhitman]

...because it's the libby media.

No one said "raid" when they went after Hillarious's Whitewater docs.

For the last time, can someone PLEASE help Uncle Fester cut and paste without catching all the irrelevant stuff on the page?

[skylndrftr]

I'm not sure that enlaring this image is really a relevant part of the debate telco...

But its about time Stevens ent down. Heres hoping his bridge to nowhere ends up going to prison!

[WDRacing]

I'd like to jail every Senator that has takin a bribe or made a shady deal and replace them with random college grads...

[Cold_Zero]

For the last time, can someone PLEASE help Uncle Fester cut and paste without catching all the irrelevant stuff on the page?

I fixed the article.

Telcoman,You might try and click on the <PRINT VIEW> tab on the Washington Post's website before you do a <COPY> & <PASTE> into your post.

bud

[Cold_Zero]

I'd like to jail every Senator that has takin a bribe or made a shady deal and replace them with random college grads...

It should be pointed out that Senator Ted Stevens has NOT been indicted for Bribery but for NOT disclosing gifts properly on his paperwork.

Apparently this investigation started at the Alaskan State Legislature level four years ago. 3 out of 5 indicted State Legislators have been convicted. You may find that Senator Steven's son is the link to these charges.

[ishkabibble]

...because it's the libby media.

raid: a sudden invasion by officers of the law

Perfectly valid use of the word. Take the tinfoil hat off.

[WDRacing]

raid: a sudden invasion by officers of the law

Perfectly valid use of the word. Take the tinfoil hat off.

I'm pretty sure the point was that another word could have been used in its place. Since raid is commonly asociated with drug dealers and such. But we all know you're a Liberal and will say/do anything in order to "appear" justfified...

[rn79870]

...because it's the libby media.

Many great thinkers are and have been liberal.

Consider Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.~Aristotle

[WDRacing]

Many great thinkers are and have been liberal.

Consider Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.~Aristotle

Spinmaster B is in THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All Donations for Spinmaster be can be sent to... iwillsayanddoanythinginordertowinandormakemypointwhetherwrongorright.com

[rn79870]

I'd like to jail every Senator that has takin a bribe or made a shady deal and replace them with random college grads...

It really broke my heart when Randy "Duke" Cunningham did what he did. You expect more from a retired decorated Naval officer and a true American hero (Vietnam war fighter ace).

I grew up as the son of a Marine Corps Officer, and I was always taught that honesty and integrity were virtues ingrained in a Marine or Naval Officer from day 1. Cunningham really let us down. I expect less from other politicians, but when greed gets the best of them, how do the lessers have a chance.

[rn79870]

Spinmaster B is in THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All Donations for Spinmaster be can be sent to... http://www.iwillsayanddoanythi...t.com

I'm not spinning you Brian, you're just dizzy.

[WDRacing]

I expect nothing from anyone in Politics and it has served me well...

[Cold_Zero]

It really broke my heart when Randy "Duke" Cunningham did what he did. You expect more from a retired decorated Naval officer and a true American hero (Vietnam war fighter ace).

Throw Jack Murtha in there too.

[telcoman]

Test.

Sorry bud

I found the "print" in the Washington post. I'll have to look to see if the NY Times has the same option?

Thanks for pointing this out as I never knew this. I'm and old liberal farht

Sen. Ted Stevens Indicted in Alaska Corruption Probe

By Carrie Johnson and Paul KaneWashington Post Staff WritersTuesday, July 29, 2008; 5:40 PM

Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens (R) was charged with seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms in an indictment unsealed in federal court in the District this afternoon.

The indictment accuses Stevens, former chairman of the powerful Senate Appropriations Committee, of concealing payments of more than $250,000 in goods and services he allegedly received from an oil company. The items include home improvements, autos and household items.

The Alaska oil firm, Veco, and its one-time leader Bill Allen, asked for help in return. Allen and another former Veco official pleaded guilty in May 2007 in connection with their role in the bribery of Alaskan public officials. Prosecutors said that in some but not all instances Stevens or his aides allegedly provided the help requested by Allen and Veco.

The indictment charges Stevens with violating the Ethics in Government Act between 2001 and 2006 by hiding payments from Allen, Veco and two other people. The law requires elected officials to disclose gifts and debts that exceed $10,000 during any point in the year.

In a statement issued late this afternoon, Stevens said, "I have proudly served this nation and Alaska for over 50 years. My public service began when I served in World War II. It saddens me to learn that these charges have been brought against me. I have never knowingly submitted a false disclosure form required by law as a U.S. Senator."

He said that in line with the Senate Republican rules, he was temporarily relinquishing his role as vice chairman of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation and as ranking minority member of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.

"The impact of these charges on my family disturbs me greatly," he said. "I am innocent of these charges and intend to prove that."

Brendan V. Sullivan Jr., a defense attorney for Stevens, did not return a telephone call seeking comment.

Stevens, a senator since 1968, "knowingly and willfully engaged in a scheme to conceal a material fact" according to the 28-page indictment.

Items Stevens received include the creation of a new first floor, garage, and a wraparound deck on a Girdwood, Alaska, property the lawmaker dubbed "the chalet," according to the court papers. He also received a professional Viking gas grill and a tool cabinet, prosecutors said.

In return, Allen and his company sought funding and help with international projects in Pakistan and Russia, as well as federal grant and contract requests, according to the charges. Veco officials also sought assistance to construct a natural gas pipeline on Alaska's north slope.

The news shook the Senate as members of the two parties were convening their weekly policy lunches. Republicans were at their political headquarters, the National Republican Senatorial Committee, and most Democrats declined to comment.

Sen. Daniel K. Inouye (D-Hawaii), Stevens' closest friend in the Senate, said he was "not surprised" by the indictment because the investigation has been going on so long, but said he still supports Stevens.

The Stevens case is part of a broad Justice Department investigation into corruption in Alaska that already has netted the two guilty pleas from Veco executives and two more from lobbyists in the state. Three former state representatives have been found guilty of corruption connected to Veco's efforts to win tax legislation in Juneau for its plan to build a natural gas pipeline in Alaska.

A state senator and a former representative are awaiting trial.

Stevens, 84, is a larger than life political figure in Alaska. The longest serving Republican in the history of the Senate--he's served nearly four decades-- Stevens has used his perch as a senior member of the Appropriations Committee to funnel billions of dollars to his home state. He is locked in a tight re-election battle with Anchorage Mayor Mark Begich (D), who in recent polls had edged slightly ahead of Stevens.

Stevens is now the ranking Republican of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, with oversight of the telecommunications, fishing, airline and other industries.

Stevens and his son, former state senator Ben Stevens (R), have been figures in the Veco case since it became public on Aug. 31, 2006, when the FBI raided the offices of several Alaska legislators, including the younger Stevens. Last July, agents from the FBI and Internal Revenue Service raided Ted Stevens' home.

The home remodeling, which took place in 2000, involved putting the senator's one-story, A-frame house on stilts and building a new ground floor, making it two stories.

Allen testified in court last year that his employees worked on an expansive reconstruction of Stevens' home. He said he personally oversaw the rebuilding of Stevens's house near Anchorage, visiting the residence about once a month, and gave the senator furniture.

"I gave Ted some old furniture," Allen testified. "I don't think there was a lot of material. There was some labor."

Contractors previously told a federal grand jury that Veco executives supervised renovations at Stevens's house and that bills for the work went to Veco for Allen's approval. Allen had earlier pleaded guilty to bribing state lawmakers in Anchorage.

In a letter to a friend who is a former federal prosecutor, Stevens has said he paid more than $130,000 for the renovations, according to the Seattle Times, which reported on the document.

Stevens is among more than a dozen current and former members of Congress who have come under federal investigation in recent years because of their ties to lobbyists and corporate interests.

The Alaska investigation has centered on Allen's efforts to bribe lawmakers by handing out wads of hundred-dollar bills in an effort to win favorable tax legislation in Alaska for a natural gas pipeline long sought by the energy industry and leaders of both political parties there.

Veco has benefited from actions by the federal government. It has received more than $30 million in federal contracts since 2000, according to a search of the database of FedSpending.org, which tracks contracts given to private companies. The largest contracts were for logistical services provided to the National Science Foundation for work in Alaska.

In June 2007, Ted Stevens first publicly acknowledged he was the focus of the investigation, telling The Washington Post that federal investigators had given him a document-preservation request as part of the Veco probe. He added that "my son is also under investigation."

The inquiry has been run by the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section, overseeing a team of FBI agents and two assistant U.S. attorneys in Anchorage.

Yes The New York times has the same print option.

Great, I learned something new today

Gee Bud, maybe you're not so bad after all

July 30, 2008Alaska Senator Is Charged With Failing to Disclose Gifts By DAVID STOUT and DAVID M. HERSZENHORNWASHINGTON — Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska, the longest-serving Republican senator in United States history and a figure of great influence in Washington as well as in his home state, has been indicted on federal charges of failing to report gifts and income.

Mr. Stevens, 84, was indicted on seven felony counts related to renovations on his home in Alaska. The charges arise from an investigation that has been under way for more than a year, in connection with the senator’s relationship with a businessman who oversaw the home-remodeling project.

“I am innocent of these charges and intend to prove that,” Mr. Stevens said several hours after the indictment was announced. He said in a statement that he had temporarily relinquished his Senate leadership positions “until I am absolved of these charges.”

The indictment will surely reverberate through the November elections. Mr. Stevens, who has been in the Senate for 40 years, is up for re-election this year. Mark Begich, a popular Democratic mayor of Anchorage, hopes to supplant him.

The Justice Department announced the charges at a news conference on Tuesday afternoon. The document says that, from the spring of 1999 through the late summer of 2007, Mr. Stevens failed to report “things of value” that he received in connection with his home in the ski resort city of Girdwood, about 40 miles south of Anchorage.

Mr. Stevens said he was saddened by the charges and had “proudly served this nation and Alaska for over 50 years.” He said he had “never knowingly submitted a false disclosure form required by law as a U.S. senator.”

Prosecutors say Mr. Stevens, who referred to his home as “the chalet,” accepted goods and services worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, ranging from an outdoor grill to extensive home remodeling and architectural advice. Not only did Mr. Stevens fail to report the items on his Senate financial disclosure form, as required, but he took active steps to conceal the receipt of the goods and services, the indictment says.

All the charges are felonies. Justice Department officials declined to discuss how long a prison term a conviction on the charges might bring, noting that the maximum sentences allowed by law are rarely imposed. Mr. Stevens was in Washington on Tuesday, and was allowed to turn himself in for paperwork processing.

The business executive at the center of the affair is Bill J. Allen, a longtime friend of the senator’s and the founder of VECO, a company that builds pipelines and does other construction work for oil companies. Mr. Allen pleaded guilty in May 2007 to making $243,000 in illegal payments to a lawmaker, who was later identified as State Senator Ben Stevens, Ted Stevens’s son.

Ben Stevens, who was once president of the Alaska State Senate, is one of a half-dozen lawmakers under scrutiny for their relationships with Mr. Allen and his company.

Republicans on Capitol Hill were already jittery over a lobbying and influence-peddling scandal related to the lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who is now in prison. Mr. Stevens’s troubles are not linked to that affair. Instead, they stem from his ties to Mr. Allen, whose company won millions of dollars in federal contracts with the help of Mr. Stevens, whose home in Alaska was almost doubled in size in the renovation project.

Under Senate Republican party rules, an indictment on felony charges compels a member to temporarily give up his leadership posts. Mr. Stevens has been the ranking minority member on the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee.

Mr. Stevens is a former chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, and he is still on the panel. As chairman, he wielded huge influence, and did not hesitate to use it to steer money and projects to his state.

“His ability to bring back the bacon to Alaska is legendary,” said Steve Ellis, vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a budget watchdog group.

“No other senator fills so central a place in his state’s public and economic life as Ted Stevens of Alaska,” the Almanac of American Politics says. “Quite possibly, no other senator ever has.”

Short and square-shouldered, Mr. Stevens often shuffles through the Capitol in comfortable, cushion-soled shoes. He is known for his quick temper; indeed, he has boasted of it.

Mr. Stevens, one of only a handful of World War II veterans left in the Senate, grew up in Indiana and California and moved to Alaska in 1950, before it was a state, according to the political almanac. He first ran for the Senate in 1962, losing to Ernest Gruening, a Democrat. He was appointed to fill a vacant seat in the Senate in 1968 by the governor at the time, Walter Hickel, and has been re-elected six times since then.

Word spread through the Capitol like an electric current, prompting whispers among senators and staff. The Democrats were gathering in a room near the Senate chamber for their weekly conference lunch. Republicans, meanwhile, moved their lunch to the headquarters of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, a common change of venue when the primary topic of discussion is politics.

Mr. Stevens is seen as a legendary, even heroic, figure in Alaska, who played a crucial role in its achievement of statehood, which became official in 1959. The long-running federal corruption investigation in Alaska has been hanging over Mr. Stevens as he faces his toughest re-election contest in many years. Mr. Begich was expected to mount a strong challenge even before word of the indictment spread.

Alaska, which last elected a Democratic senator in 1974, is one of several seemingly unlikely states where Democrats believe they have a strong chance of pulling off upset victories in the November elections.

The indictment comes nearly a year after federal agents raided Mr. Stevens’s home as part of a continuing investigation into corruption that had already ensnared the senator’s son.

Though lawmakers have been aware of the Justice Department inquiry for some time, the news of an indictment still came as something of a shock this week, as both houses of Congress are trying to wrap up legislative business before the monthlong August recess.

Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican minority leader, spoke to a huge throng of reporters for just 21 seconds, at what normally would have been a regular weekly news conference. “Let me just say that the Republican conference, like you, just learned of this news,” Mr. McConnell said. “We’ll no doubt have more to say about it later.”

Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, defended Mr. Stevens. “I’ve known Ted Stevens for 28 years, and have always known him to be impeccably honest,” said Mr. Specter, a former prosecutor.

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic majority leader, said the indictment of Mr. Stevens made for “a sad day for him, us.”

“But, you know, I believe in the American system of justice,” Mr. Reid added. “He is presumed innocent.”

Senator Daniel Inouye, Democrat of Hawaii, who is the chairman of the defense appropriations subcommittee and a friend of Mr. Stevens, said Mr. Stevens should be presumed innocent unless and until he is proven guilty. Mr. Inouye said he did not expect that the indictment would interfere with Senator Stevens’s ability to work in the Senate.

Time to go now and watch Hardball and Keith Olberman

Telcoman


Modified by telcoman at 4:29 PM 7/29/2008

[smockers83]

raid: a sudden invasion by officers of the law

Perfectly valid use of the word. Take the tinfoil hat off.

invasion:1: an act of invading; especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder2: the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful

Put sudden and invasion together and you get raid. But yes, my point was that there has to be a better word that could be used instead of raid. People coming to knock on your door and say, "Hey, we have this here piece of paper and we need to look around and take pictures," isn't an invasion, its sudden, but not an invasion.

Quote »Many great thinkers are and have been liberal.

Consider

Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.~Aristotle[/quote]As for Aristotle on liberalism, liberalism then isn't necessarily the same idea of liberalism today. Classical liberalism stresses individual freedom and limited government, which today is more on the conservative side.
Modified by smockers83 at 7:57 PM 7/29/2008

[ishkabibble]

I'm pretty sure the point was that another word could have been used in its place. Since raid is commonly asociated with drug dealers and such. But we all know you're a Liberal and will say/do anything in order to "appear" justfified...

LOL, "raid" is used on a daily basis in D.C..

You want to start personal attacks, ...bleep...?

[ishkabibble]

But yes, my point was that there has to be a better word that could be used instead of raid. People coming to knock on your door and say, "Hey, we have this here piece of paper and we need to look around and take pictures, " isn't an invasion, its sudden, but not an invasion.

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly how it went down.

Why do they need that piece of paper again? Oh, yeah, because they were not welcome there.

[AZhitman]

Many great thinkers are and have been liberal.

Consider Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.~Aristotle

In Aristotle's time, "Liberalism" meant nothing like what it means today.

The association with the word "virtue" should have been your first clue.

[AZhitman]

Why do they need that piece of paper again? Oh, yeah, because they were not welcome there.

No, because that's part of Due Process.

Gotta love the Constitution - It protects liberals and conservatives alike.

[smockers83]

You only assume they were unwelcome. Hell, in the great state of AK, the guy serving the warrant could have been his next door neighbor that lives 10 miles down the road and just wanted to stop by and say hi.

Had there been no warrant, then we would have invasion. But I'm sure they were unwelcome because they were investigating something illegal? If I were doing something illegal, I wouldn't be throwing a welcoming party. If I knew I was clean, I'd just continue to sit on my couch and watch the game with a beer in hand and offer the guys a round because its going to take them awhile to find what they're looking for, so might as well make em happy they showed up. I may even make new friends.

[srellim234]

Gotta love the Constitution - It's ignored by liberal and conservative politicians alike.

[rn79870]

As for Aristotle on liberalism, liberalism then isn't necessarily the same idea of liberalism today. Classical liberalism stresses individual freedom and limited government, which today is more on the conservative side.

Be careful when using Wiki for your information...

Seehttp://www.ncpa.org/pub/specia....html

[smockers83]

We may be using different definitions of classical and liberalism.

From your own source: Basically, classical liberalism is the belief in liberty That's what Aristotle philosophized about. Read his book called Politics. People who study the ancient world will tell you the same thing in that liberalism then is not the same today.

Modern day liberalism isn't what it used to be by that statement, which is classical liberalism. According to your own source again: Twentieth century liberals believed that it is not a violation of any fundamental right for government to regulate where people work, when they work, the wages they work for, what they can buy, what they can sell, the price they can sell it for, etc. In the economic sphere, then, almost anything goes.

At the same time, 20th century liberals continued to be influenced by the 19th century liberalism's belief in and respect for civil liberties. In fact, as the last century progressed, liberal support for civil liberties grew and groups like the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) began to proudly claim the label "civil libertarian." Since liberalism was the dominant twentieth century ideology, public policy tended to reflect its beliefs. By the end of the century, people had far fewer economic rights than they had at the beginning. But they had more civil rights.

Your source also goes on to say that Jefferson is one of the contemporary advocates for classical liberalism. Jefferson believed in limited government. Liberals today do not believe in that.

There is a confusion between liberalism = freedom and liberalism = political spectrum. I think that may be the problem.

[WDRacing]

LOL, "raid" is used on a daily basis in D.C..

You want to start personal attacks, ...bleep...?

How about not resorting to personal attacks until your...bleep...can say that to every person standing in front of you???

Ish...nothing is personal until you make it so...but when you choose to make it personal you will actually have to stand behind what you say. In this case you're a ...bleep... So do yourself a favor ...bleep...before you right a check your ...bleep...

You're a ...bleep...and I want ...bleep...as soon as possible...

But ...bleep...

[skylndrftr]

I can imagine why he would take that personal but its his fault because he took it personal right

[WDRacing]

No sir...that was a personal response aimed directly at him...

Do you take issue with me addressing someone that directly confronts me? Things like this have nothing to do with the topic, candidate or party...simply him calling me a dumbass. The world allows people to do and say things with NO accountability. This has lead us to where we are now. Ish is the kind of person that would only call me a dumbass because he isn't afraid of the consequence of verbally assaulting me. That is one of the things that has lead us to failure...

In short Ish simply portrays a failure by his parents...no responsibility for his actions. Which signifies a failure in everything he has ever stood for. He is nothing more then an E thug thats has been called out. He is indeed a failure and will remain so forever until he accepts that others may indeed have opinions that conflict with his own.

Are you standing up for him just because he is in your Party?

[Marenta]

Wow.. How did this go from the Senator in Alaska to Classic Politicians to personal attacks?

And Aristotle was a fool. Plato had Socrates' death to learn from, where as Aristotle was mollycoddled into the Democratic Republic idealism. He was so enraptured with his scientific studies he wanted to believe that the human race could exist as a body of a mind. Unlikely. As a singular body, we are all responsible for the decisions that are made, which is what Plato had described. Only to fall on deaf ears. Oye, college was way too long ago. >.<

[ishkabibble]

WD, come visit me in SE D.C. or walk through my old neighborhoods in Minneapolis and then talk **** about me. The truth is, you know little about my upbringing, my party (non-)affiliation, or what I'm willing to say to someone face to face.

My original post was meant to point out that you were being mean-spirited on a personal level. I don't mind "attacks" that are dripping with sarcasm or obviously in jest, but yours was neither of those. But feel free to keep going ape****; it's pretty entertaining.