Another Chain Guide Disaster Averted

[3rd Q]

A HUGE thank you to Squeefoo for helping me do the chain guides on my '90 Q! (Actually, Squeefoo did them, I just helped out by turning some bolts and whatever else I could do to help the process along. ) As you'll see in the pics, I was driving a time bomb that could have detonated at any moment.

Having someone who has done 2 previous guide jobs (both he and his dad also have '90 Qs) and who is very mechanical besides made this job a breeze. I've done lots of R&R on my Qs, but this is one job where it pays to have 2 people- that crankshaft pulley bolt is a bear! It turned out that we saved my car from an unfortunate and untimely death and made a good NICO friend on top of it.

IF YOU HAVE A '90-'93 Q AND HAVE NOT DONE YOUR CHAIN GUIDES- DO THEM! After having two other '91 Qs that I put lots of miles on (150k and 120k) with no chain guide problems, I really thought that all this fuss about changing the guides was way overblown. This Q is very mint with only 73k miles and I thought I was just doing some preventive maintenance, but Squeefoo can tell you I had the shakes when we opened the front cover to find chunks of chain guide everywhere! I've spent a lot of time and done over $3500 in work on this Q since buying it a year ago and to think it could have all gone POOF makes me grateful to Squee and to all the NICO folks who have posted chain guide warnings!

P.S. Squeefoo's '90 Q is by far the best handling and fastest Q I've driven. Man, that thing is tight through the twisties!

P.S.S. Big thanks also to Wes for helping me get this post up!



Notice the chunk wedged under the timing chain- not good !

This is supposed to be in one piece!









Modified by 3rd Q at 2:26 AM 12/26/2004

Modified by 3rd Q at 2:49 AM 12/26/2004
Modified by 3rd Q at 3:03 AM 12/26/2004

[squeefoo]

The 5 "W's" Who, What, When,Where, and Why ... OK... let's skip the last one.

Let's see Gimme Gimme

[elwesso]

Very nice Q paul... I see youve got one of those spiffy cupholders... Nice color and nice wheels!!!

HOWEVER, we have to get you workin on your temp... It looks like its sitting well above the 3 oclock position.. WE cant have that!

[PalmerWMD]

Good Pics.car looks awesome would have been a shame if it had been ruined due to bad guides making car jump time.

Fred..

[911/Q45]

Everyone should note the mileage!

[PalmerWMD]

Everyone should note the mileage!

So true!

Fred..

[3rd Q]

HOWEVER, we have to get you workin on your temp... It looks like its sitting well above the 3 oclock position.. WE cant have that!

Wes, Just changed out the water pump and did a new OEM Tstat while I was in there.The original tstat put the temp gauge in the same place, just above 3:00. The temp gauge in both of my previous Qs sat just under 3:00.
Modified by 3rd Q at 2:58 AM 12/26/2004

[Jesda]

Every Q is slightly different. Are you using an OEM cap?

[elwesso]

Id still be concerned..... Maybe you need to have the radiator cleaned.....

[Q45tech]

And what would the cap pressure have to do with the coolant temperature since the thermostat is fully open at 194F. The cap pressure just keeps coolant from boiling at 255-265F..............till the rad plastic end tanks explodes from over pressure with too high pressure cap [oem is 0.9 bar or 13 psi]Probably just natural variation [tolerances] in sender or inside display........however a Consult test would show the truth...........afterall inside display is essentially worthless to begin with, anyway.

Usual problem is air flow blockage by condenser dirt/trash and rad fin oxidation/ age. Too high a concentration of AF to distilled water in Summer.

Warmish overheats in winter [no AC] indicate some serious work is need.

The usual winter problem is not enough heat---- bad old thermostat [interior gauge shows at 3:30- 4 o'clock position [much more accutate in the just off bottom[110F] to 3 o'clock point.

we see many with 40-60k old thermostats that don't warm up enough to Consult test [176F].............I like that 130-140F max at high air flow [always 20-25F colder than coolant temp] heater air quickly in winter.

[3rd Q]

Very nice Q paul... I see youve got one of those spiffy cupholders... Nice color and nice wheels!!!

Wes, The cupholders are thanks to you and Jesda and the Q45.org site- you guys have some great info on there!

[3rd Q]

Jesda,Yeah, I did a new cap and the piece that the cap attaches to. When we did the guides we cleaned and blew out the fins on the condenser and radiator. Next time I have a consult I'll have them check it. When I do the trans cooler I'll take the radiator in for some rehab.

[vicQ45]

wow! that Q looks beautiful! i love the interior! i need my guides done, but the lowest estimate was $1900 on labor. i'm a college student and can't even come close to affording this... if anyone is willing to help me here in texas, i'm willing to make an offer. i'd tackle it with my dad but he says we don't have the skill :P. please..i'm willing to drive pretty far for this. i want to keep this car for the long haul(200k+)

[Jesda]

Theres some incredible thorough threads in Infiniti Online Mechanic if you get crazy and decide to DIY. Otherwise T3 will do it for somewhere over a grand (plus more if an oil pan drop is required); Tim's tech in Indy will do it for about the same. I know of someone in Kentucky who can do it for a little over a grand as well.

Take out a personal loan at the bank, borrow it from a friend, give blood... do anything. Otherwise, sell now.

[DAEDALUS]

Take out a personal loan at the bank, borrow it from a friend, give blood... do anything. Otherwise, sell now.

http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=31454

[elwesso]

AHAHA Good find DAE... I just read through it!!! Im pretty sure Jesda was pretty new, and definitely before he stepped out of the "infiniti hole"... We were EVIL... He didnt want to get his guides done, so we were already parting out the car...

Jesda still has one of the internally cleanest engines Ive seen in a while.....

[Jesda]

During that period I drove the minivan most of the time. The Q was like an ornament in the driveway. I put it up for sale but didnt get high enough offers. ($2300 was the most). It seemed like I was really stuck with the car, and I had to go all the way or take a big loss.

To pay for chain guide parts I had to auction off a new LCD monitor and my much-adored iMac.

[vicQ45]

hehe i had to part with all of my car stereo stuff($900) to pay for the current Q guess its time to start saving again :P

[Q_SHIP]

The prices pepole are charging for this ar insane. I Have been doing some research on this and it looks like a day or two worth of DIY work. When I get the time, I'm going to do it myself. Squeefoo might be of some assistance also.

Also, My local mechanic offered to do the job for $300 plus parts. I think even this over glorified T3 place is taking pepole to the cleaners on this job .

[elwesso]

Really there isnt anything terribly complicated other than making sure the cams are properly fastened down and pulling the crank.....

[3rd Q]

Jesda,Funny how seeing chunks of chain guide strewn about under your front cover changes your thinking on the subject . I know it did mine!

[3rd Q]

Might want to start a thread asking if there is anyone in your area who can do the job or help out- that's what I did and thankfully Squeefoo answered back. In hindsight, the job is pretty straightforward- removing the crank pulley bolt and the pulley were the toughest parts. It really helps a lot to have someone who has done it before doing it with you.

If Squee could not do it, I was planning a drive to T3 in January to have them done. When he did his Q's and his dad's guides(both with higher mileage I think), he found all of them intact. Seems to be no rhyme or reason to which ones fail. If you can't do them now, I would find an alternative ride- otherwise, it's a real crapshoot!
Modified by 3rd Q at 12:35 PM 12/27/2004

[DAEDALUS]

The prices pepole are charging for this ar insane. I Have been doing some research on this and it looks like a day or two worth of DIY work. When I get the time, I'm going to do it myself. Squeefoo might be of some assistance also.

Also, My local mechanic offered to do the job for $300 plus parts. I think even this over glorified T3 place is taking pepole to the cleaners on this job .

I think the book time on the guides is around 12 hours. If your mechanic is willing to work for $25/book hour then...WOW. Shops here charge anywhere from $60s at independents and large chains to over $100 at dealerships. At least T3 offers the expertise of someone who's done over 100 of these jobs. Their limited $1000 offer (parts/labor) was a real steal.

[Q_SHIP]

I think the book time on the guides is around 12 hours. If your mechanic is willing to work for $25/book hour then...WOW. Shops here charge anywhere from $60s at independents and large chains to over $100 at dealerships. At least T3 offers the expertise of someone who's done over 100 of these jobs. Their limited $1000 offer (parts/labor) was a real steal.

Thats not a deal in my opinion. I can get it done for $550 parts and labor. The job is straight foward and any mechanic with 1/2 a brain should be able to do it. Whats the difference if they have done 100 of them really? I think they are taking advantage of people. If they have done hundreds of them in the past, they probably can bust the job out in under a day. Why charge that much if it takes 6 hours to do? I just think its a scam.

[elwesso]

Thats not a deal in my opinion. I can get it done for $550 parts and labor. The job is straight foward and any mechanic with 1/2 a brain should be able to do it. Whats the difference if they have done 100 of them really? I think they are taking advantage of people. If they have done hundreds of them in the past, they probably can bust the job out in under a day. Why charge that much if it takes 6 hours to do? I just think its a scam.

I disagree. Unless you do it the FSM way, it is kinda brainless.. I wont really go into T3 scamming people, because thats crazy.. While with the help of NICO and the posts here, it is a fairly straightforeward job... this is NOT something I would take into even a dealer these days, only to a qualified person who has done it before....

They have the equipment and tools and it WILL get done right... You may pay less, and get lucky, or you may pay more with an engine replacement... There are a lot of things that can go wrong (chains slipping, improper torquing of the bolt, etc) and T3 knows their stuff...

IF you wanna play you gotta pay!!! I had to use all of my will power not to resort to flaming

[Q_SHIP]

Sorry guy, there is nothing to flame. It's just my opinion. There should be no special tools for the job. Sorry if you take offense.

If a mechanic can not do somthing as simple as this with sucess, I don't think the term "mechanic" should be used for that person for they are not much of one.

On a side note, I take the "scam" remark back. I will replace that with "Overpriced". Is that better?

[911/Q45]

You can probably get surgery done cheaply in Mexico. Would you?

[gniknave]

You can probably get surgery done cheaply in Mexico. Would you?

Haha and get an aftermarket heart...that would suck

[Q_SHIP]

You can probably get surgery done cheaply in Mexico. Would you?

This is not brain surgery. I can't believe how much crap I get for stating my opinion on the subject.

[DAEDALUS]

Sorry guy, there is nothing to flame. It's just my opinion. There should be no special tools for the job. Sorry if you take offense.

If a mechanic can not do somthing as simple as this with sucess, I don't think the term "mechanic" should be used for that person for they are not much of one.

On a side note, I take the "scam" remark back. I will replace that with "Overpriced". Is that better?

No flaming here.

On the one hand I have the same opinion that shops charge too much for what they do, and I've said the same thing that you're saying many a time. I might be willing to pay someone what I make to work on my car, but not $70+/hour. I just can't justify that, especially after having too many really bad experiences with guys that know very little and who don't give a crap about *my* vehicle. </my opinion>On the other hand business is business. They have to charge what they do just to stay open and make it worth their while. There's a lot of competition, and if they could charge $25/hour they would, or at least less than all their competitors. If all the shops in your area charge about the same as your mechanic, that would be awesome. But if he's charging 1/3 what his competitors are, then 2 questions come to mind: 1) Why doesn't he double his labor rate, increasing his income while still undercutting his competition; and 2) How can he afford to do what other shops can't?