Angry memo

[The Mic]

SEAN PENN RIPS 'TEAM AMERICA' CREATORS IN ANGRY MEMO

**Exclusive**

October 6, 2004

To Trey Parker and Matt Stone,

I remember a cordial hello when you guys were beginning to be famous guys around Hollywood at some party. I remember several times getting a few giggles out of your humor. I remember not being bothered as you traded on my name among others to appear witty, above it all, and likeable to your crowd. I never mind being of service, in satire and silliness.

I do mind when anybody who doesn't have a child, doesn't have a child at war, or isn't or won't be in harm's way themselves, is encouraging that there's "no shame in not voting" "if you don't know what you're talking about" (Mr. Stone) without mentioning the shame of not knowing what your talking about, and encouraging people to know. You guys are talented young guys but alas, primarily young guys. It's all well to joke about me or whomever you choose. Not so well, to encourage irresponsibility that will ultimately lead to the disembowelment, mutilation, exploitation, and death of innocent people throughout the world. The vote matters to them. No one's ignorance, including a couple of hip cross-dressers, is an excuse.

All best, and a sincere F%*k you,

Sean Penn

P.S. Take this as a personal invitation from me to you (you can ask Dennis Miller along for the ride as well) to escort you on a trip, which I took last Christmas. We'll fly to Amman, Jordan and I'll ride with you in a (?) 12 hours through the Sunni Triangle into Fallujah and Baghdad and I'll show you around. When we return, make all the fun you want.

edit: dont know whether it's authentic or fake, but it's humorous

[MinisterofDOOM]

Anyone offended by Matt Stone's Humor needs to lighten up and get a life. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING is a target. Nothing is to be taken seriously. It's funny as hell for those reasons specifically. It's only offensive if you are dumb enough to take it seriously. The characters are made of cardboard and/or plastic for god's sake!!

There's my angry memo back at Sean Penn.

The note is still hilarious.

[Rockenreno]

Quite honestly, if you know nothing about the candidates, you shouldn't vote. Not that the popular vote means anything, but we should at least take the system seriously. To me, saying you voted but not knowing why is far worse than not voting at all. You're just gumming up the system if you do that.

Then again I am disaffected with politics in general, so feel free to disagree.

[krazy skwerel]

Sean Penn is an *******. Not because of this just in general. Though he has played some good rolls. that makes him no less of an *******.

[vicki]

Sean Penn is an amazing actor. If I feel strongly about something and another person made a mockery out of it, I'd be inclined to tell that person off too. *shrugs.

Not everything in life can be made fun of. Well, it can, but don't expect everyone to take it light heartedly.

[Jesda]

Good for Sean! He just gave free publicity to a great movie. Hopefully the rest of hollywood will come together and initiate a boycott, tripling media coverage of Team America and doubling ticket sales.

Side note: The two guys who created South Park (Parker and Stone) regularly vote for Libertarian Party candidates. The movie is a full-scale attack on political and hollywood elitism. Thank goodness for someone who FINALLY doesnt care about kissing anyone's ***.

[vicki]

Quite honestly, if you know nothing about the candidates, you shouldn't vote. Not that the popular vote means anything, but we should at least take the system seriously. To me, saying you voted but not knowing why is far worse than not voting at all. You're just gumming up the system if you do that.

Then again I am disaffected with politics in general, so feel free to disagree.

While I'm inclined to agree with you logically, I don't think that's what a democracy is all about. A large group of American citizens aren't highly educated nor do they live to keep up with/discuss politics. But for the vote to be representative of the people as a whole and not just the elites/informed citizens, I think everyone should go out and vote.

[Jesda]

"Get out the vote!" seems to be more popular than "Get informed, you idiot, then get off your *** and go register"

Encouraging those who know little or nothing to use their valuable vote -- because Cameron Diaz thinks youre "unamerican" otherwise -- thats the essence of a wasted vote.

I'll take 25% turnout from informed voters who care over 75% turnout from careless know-nothings. There is significantly less "value" in a vote if the voter is uninformed.

Quantity < Quality

Additionally, a non-vote IS a vote. Abstaining from voting is the equivalent of marking "Any of the above" on a ballot.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The morning show I listen to on the way home from work (Radio From Hell, X96) is always pushing the importance of being and informed voter. They do a thing called "Boner of the day" and list three idiots in the news. Then the people vote. But they constantly say things like "After we get to boner #3, you will be an informed voter. At which point we will open the phone lines. But we won't let you vote until you hear the whole story."

It's a great way to engrain the fact that uninformed voting is a nuisance and a way to disrupt the system, regardless of how great a duty it is.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Oh...and by the way. I'm heading to the theatre as soon as it opens to pick up some Team America tickets.

[The Mic]

people shouldn't be encouraged to vote, especially without any accompanying message about learning enough before hand to make that an informed vote. Ignorant voting is just that, ignorance. And that kind of voting is dangerous.

The idea of just getting bodies in the voting booth is not exactly what the founding fathers had in mind.

[Drift Machine]

But isn't it there right to cast a vote for whoever they want? Who cares if they "don't know anything" in someone else's eyes. Intelligence is relative. Just like I don't care if someone chooses not to vote, it's their American right not to cast a vote.

[MinisterofDOOM]

What we mean by uneducated is that the person doesn't know about the policies and platform of the candidate. It doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter if they are not capable of understanding (which would be pretty sad). What matters is making the system work. How can it work if a bunch (tens of thousands of people each election) of people "just pick one" when they get to the booth. Eeny meeny miny moe? No. That can't work. It's just an impedence. That's what we mean.

[Drift Machine]

What we mean by uneducated is that the person doesn't know about the policies and platform of the candidate. It doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter if they are not capable of understanding (which would be pretty sad). .

Isn't it their right to decide to not learn about any of the policies? I believe so. Remember it's an American right to NOT have to do anything just as much as it to do things.

What matters is making the system work. How can it work if a bunch (tens of thousands of people each election) of people "just pick one" when they get to the booth. Eeny meeny miny moe? No. That can't work. It's just an impedence. That's what we mean.

Thats why the popular vote means nothing. The people who really care about the election will be the ones who cast a vote deciding who their representative is going to be in teh college.

[Jesda]

I dont think anyone here is questioning the RIGHT to an uninformed vote, just questioning the QUALITY or USEFULNESS to a functional representative government.

[gabossie]

Yes, it is obviously every persons right to vote, educated or not. But why ENCOURAGE people to go to the polls if they are simply going to vote at random.

[AZhitman]

2 undeniable truths:

1) Sean Penn is pathetic, regardless of his politics. The guy's obviously no more in control of his knee-jerk reactions (from his mouth) than he was 20 years ago (from his fists).

2) Intelligence is indeed relative. The left thinks the right is ignorant and uneducated, the right perceives the same about the left. The truth, unfortunately, lies somewhere in the middle.

[AZhitman]

p.s. Trey and Matt should call this pinhead's bluff and take him up on his offer of an expenses-paid tour of the Middle-East.

[Drift Machine]

To me even if the persons vote is perceived as random, it's still usefull to teh person who cast the vote. It may not be usefull to the person in the next voting booth, but it's still somehow usefull to the person who cast the vote otherwise they wouldn't have taken the time out of their day to do so. But then when you say quality, to me that says my vote isn't worth as much as yours. Isn't a democratic government functional when it represents the views of the majority? (while still maintaining the rights of the minority)

Well by encouraging people to get into the voting booths they are trying to get them to pay attention to the election and thus the issues raised by all the canidates.

I think all votes are usefull because they reflect upon the american society. If it's just a bunch of people going in voting at random, well then thats what the people want. Sorry to say but the amount of people who pay attention, more then just watch the debates, are the minority. Or at least it appears that way to me.

[vicki]

I have more faith in the American people than to believe that someone will just walk up to the ballot and vote blindly without knowing a single damn thing about the person whom they are voting for. Some people, particularly those in the 18-24 age group who are first or second time voters don't realize how important their vote is. Most college students tend to have a more liberal viewpoint which can sway the election greatly. Promoting and encouraging voters is also going to encourage more active political participation. You can't just say, "you're dumb... you know nothing about politics so don't get out there and get informed and register to vote because your voice doesn't matter because it is ignorant and flawed." That is NOT what a democracy about. If everyone thought like you guys, then blacks would still be slaves and women wouldn't be allowed to vote.

[AZhitman]

^ Vicki's pretty darn smart, regardless of what Jesda thinks.

Good post Vic!

[Jesda]

Again, the falsely applied elitism and poorly followed reasoning. And I never said Vicki was "not smart," at least not in public. That does not apply to this discussion -- please, Greg, do not put words in my mouth.

1. I've worked in small and large campaigns before; lets not be naive -- Voter registration drives occur most at campaign rallies, whether its a Springstein concert, outside a theatre after a showing of Fahrenheit 9/11, or a Bush rally at an arena. The idea is to convince people who are energized into voting for their guy. "I have them charged up with propaganda, now's the time to get 'em!" Or at universities, where professors who live in academia or students with limited life experience tend to be more liberal minded. That state of mind, perpetuated by educators, is coupled with on-campus voter registration drives.

2. You are operating on the false premise that someone was told not to vote. WRONG. I simply dont want to unnecessarily encourage it. There is a representative government, and then there is a FUNCTIONAL representative government, supported by education and media.

3. There is no evidence that those who vote become more informed. It is those who are more informed who choose to vote. The most likely to vote, of registered voters, are those who follow a particular ideology or mindset. They often spend the most time acquiring information and are the most informed.

4. No one said "Americans are stupid." Again, false assumptions of elitism. I'm a Smith/Hobbes/Locke libertarian, who questions the role of government in controlling our lives. Obviously, the libertarian ideology REQUIRES an operating presumption that the citizens are better off without control by the elite -- to a libertarian the "elite" is big, intrusive government. There is strongly implicit faith in the citizenry under libertarian ideology.

5. What was said, is that some people shouldn't be guilted into voting if they do not want to. They likely A) Like or dislike all of the candidates equally or B) Feel their lives will not be affected tremendously. The latter is usually more common, and generally true. It is not elected officials who make dramatic changes in policy, it is situations and events (cold war, pearl harbor, 9/11).Remember, John Kerry warned us about Iraq as an imminent threat that developed WMD, voted for the Iraqi Liberation Act in 1998 and voted for the invasion of Iraq.

6. Once again: Quality > Quantity. Not just representative government -- FUNCTIONAL representative government.

7. Reverting to slavery of blacks, women, etc, is a logical fallacy and a cheap appeal to emotion. I could talk about big intrusive government, with popularly elected officials back when voter turnout was high, being the cause of the perpetuation of slavery and oppression.

[While Edmund Burke himself was an elitist, a few of his ideas were universally true.]

-Jesda
Modified by Jesda at 4:54 PM 10/14/2004

[Jesda]

Oh yeah, I left out the important part in all this:

Sean Penn sucks.

[AZhitman]

Jesda for Congress!!!!

[hudy]

Jesda rulz!

[vicki]

1. I've worked in small and large campaigns before; lets not be naive -- Voter registration drives occur most at campaign rallies, whether its a Springstein concert, outside a theatre after a showing of Fahrenheit 9/11, or a Bush rally at an arena. The idea is to convince people who are energized into voting for their guy. "I have them charged up with propaganda, now's the time to get 'em!" Or at universities, where professors who live in academia or students with limited life experience tend to be more liberal minded. That state of mind, perpetuated by educators, is coupled with on-campus voter registration drives.

Many "informed" people get their information from mass media sources. Who are writing these stories? Journalists. While the strive for the least bias is often achieved, American journalism CLEARLY has a bias which is often times liberal. While that bias may not be as extreme as that of Fahrenheit 9/11 and such, it is still there. People's perception is based on the lenses and frames of the person writing the article. If your argument is that people are being charged up with propaganda from such movies, then you have to accuse them of getting the same treatment, in smaller doses, from mass media.

2. You are operating on the false premise that someone was told not to vote. WRONG. I simply dont want to unnecessarily encourage it. There is a representative government, and then there is a FUNCTIONAL representative government, supported by education and media.

Saying that someone shouldn't vote and telling them not to vote is the same to me, with slightly kinder wordning. I think it IS necessary to encourage it. I don't believe in a pluralist model of democracy in which only rich and brilliant White males rule and make all the decisions. Functional representative comes when a factions of DIVERSE (be it ethnic, socioeconomic, education level etc. etc.) come together and vote and decide how they want to be represented. It's clearly obvious that the majority of educated people in the United States are predominantly wealthy. The higher up on the economic scale, the more inclination towards conservatism. If only the educated voted, then of course, there will not be a good representation of the people.

3. There is no evidence that those who vote become more informed. It is those who are more informed who choose to vote. The most likely to vote, of registered voters, are those who follow a particular ideology or mindset. They often spend the most time acquiring information and are the most informed.

You're going based on circumstantial evidence. Who is to say that someone who is willing to take time out of their schedule to register, answer questions, then show up AGAIN come election day to cast their votes isn't going to at LEAST try to find out who they are voting for and why they are voting. Common sense tells me that if I am wasting opportunity costs in registering then showing up to vote, I will at least know a decent amount about both candidates, otherwise I won't vote. Natural filtering out of those who really aren't interested. But that does not mean that encouragement should end.

4. No one said "Americans are stupid." Again, false assumptions of elitism. I'm a Smith/Hobbes/Locke libertarian, who questions the role of government in controlling our lives. Obviously, the libertarian ideology REQUIRES an operating presumption that the citizens are better off without control by the elite -- to a libertarian the "elite" is big, intrusive government. There is strongly implicit faith in the citizenry under libertarian ideology.

If you've truly read Hobbes and Locke, you'd know that they are both classical realists who believe that human nature is fickle. Left to their own devices, people acting in their self interest will destroy each other thus they need a government to rule. They do however believe that people should yield their rights to the government. But of course acting in their self interest, wouldn't people want a government that will represent and benefit them?

5. What was said, is that some people shouldn't be guilted into voting if they do not want to. They likely A) Like or dislike all of the candidates equally or B) Feel their lives will not be affected tremendously. The latter is usually more common, and generally true. It is not elected officials who make dramatic changes in policy, it is situations and events (cold war, pearl harbor, 9/11).Remember, John Kerry warned us about Iraq as an imminent threat that developed WMD, voted for the Iraqi Liberation Act in 1998 and voted for the invasion of Iraq.

Noone suggested guilting and coercing anyone to vote. Someone said before that the encouragement of voting isn't necessary, I simply disagreed. Decisions made by politicians DO affect the lives of people whether they know it or not. Granted, there are checks and balances in the system to keep any single party from gaining too much power, but there are still policies passed under certain administrations that wouldn't have gone through in others. Therefore the party in office is important and votes, be it informed or not, could swing the election either way. Sure Kerry sees Iraq as a threat but a multilateral approach in dealing with terrorism (which is a global problem, not middle eastern based) is definitely the way to go.

6. Once again: Quality > Quantity. Not just representative government -- FUNCTIONAL representative government.

You can have a functional government regardless of how many people vote. Both candidates and their cabinet are capable of ruling otherwise they wouldn't be in the election. The point is, who should rule and who will be representative of the American people?

7. Reverting to slavery of blacks, women, etc, is a logical fallacy and a cheap appeal to emotion. I could talk about big intrusive government, with popularly elected officials back when voter turnout was high, being the cause of the perpetuation of slavery and oppression.

Cheap appeal? Hardly. You clearly missed my point. My point is that I am sure white men back in the day saw minorities and women as ignorant and uninformed which is why they weren't given voting rights until the 70s. Had everyone else believed that ignorant people should not have rights and should not vote then our society in which we live today would be a hell of a lot different

I can't believe I just spent 10 minutes typing this up. I'm gonna go shower and play some cribbage. Good day.

-Vicks

[hudy]

I looked up this cribbage, seems interesting. Never heard of it b4

[vicki]

Oh, and don't get me wrong, I love South Park to death and Parker and Stone are freaking hilarious and I intend to see Team America. I was just defending Sean Penn on the basis that he is allowed to be pissed off and he's not being uptight. He is still a great actor. Rock on!

Oh and Hudy- Cribbage is the second best game in the world next to Hold'em.

[hudy]

I assume you mean texas hold em. Not really a fan. My fav card game is Euchre!

[vicki]

I assume you mean texas hold em. Not really a fan. My fav card game is Euchre!

It's hard to enjoy a game you're not so good at. :p I kid I kid.

What is Euchre?