Altima coupe: bose head unit vs F700BT

[RobPaulson]

Recntly I had an avic f700bt installed in my new altima coupe with the bose system. I did not do the install i had a custom audio shop do it for me. When i got it back initially it sounded AWFUL. There was no base, it sounded like ALL the sound was being pushed out the door mids/highs.

So i called them up and complained, they explained that they may have to tweek the existing bose components in the system to even out thesound in the car. They told me the rear of the car was 'turned down' alot. So after turning it up, the sub and rear speakers started hitting again (mind you ALL SPEAKERS are stock bose).

Now my system with the stock bose head unit, hit like a TRUCK, and sounded AMAZING. Extremly loud and deep, fulfilling bass. Even after taking it back and sitting in the car and working with the equalizer for a while, it still does not sound like it did.

My metal (like parkway drive, diecast etc) sounds very pingy and almost hurts my ears if i turn it up too loud, but it doesnt seem loud, it just hurts lol.

My jazz/funk/raggae (groundation, soulive etc) sounds weaker than before, it used to BOOM with those low bass notes but now, you have to turn the volume up ALOT to get the same boom.

So the question is, do i fix this through my equalizer on the avic system, or do i take it back and continue having the shop 'tweek' the bose system?

any insigt here would be great, i like this audio shop and they usually do good work, so im trying to give them the benifit of the doubt. But im ooking for some further understanding on how this bose system etc works with an aftermarket unit like a f700bt.

[rjdmmfl1]

Recntly I had an avic f700bt installed in my new altima coupe with the bose system. I did not do the install i had a custom audio shop do it for me. When i got it back initially it sounded AWFUL. There was no base, it sounded like ALL the sound was being pushed out the door mids/highs.

So i called them up and complained, they explained that they may have to tweek the existing bose components in the system to even out thesound in the car. They told me the rear of the car was 'turned down' alot. So after turning it up, the sub and rear speakers started hitting again (mind you ALL SPEAKERS are stock bose).

Now my system with the stock bose head unit, hit like a TRUCK, and sounded AMAZING. Extremly loud and deep, fulfilling bass. Even after taking it back and sitting in the car and working with the equalizer for a while, it still does not sound like it did.

My metal (like parkway drive, diecast etc) sounds very pingy and almost hurts my ears if i turn it up too loud, but it doesnt seem loud, it just hurts lol.

My jazz/funk/raggae (groundation, soulive etc) sounds weaker than before, it used to BOOM with those low bass notes but now, you have to turn the volume up ALOT to get the same boom.

So the question is, do i fix this through my equalizer on the avic system, or do i take it back and continue having the shop 'tweek' the bose system?

any insigt here would be great, i like this audio shop and they usually do good work, so im trying to give them the benifit of the doubt. But im ooking for some further understanding on how this bose system etc works with an aftermarket unit like a f700bt.

Didn't I coveer this in a previous thread?The BOSE SYSTEM IS A SYSTEM... in order to work perfectly, you need the head unit, amplifier, and speakers... yes, in your original system with your stock head unit, the head unit was sending the appropriate frequencies to the amp, and thus to the speakers... now, with the Avic, its all jacked up.. the EQ in the Pioneer units are average at best... what you would need is a real sound processor to fix these issues. Something like a JL audio cleansweep or a Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.2 (the 3sixty.2) allows you to tweak each individual speakers, not just front, back, sub, etc.

In getting the Pioneer, you sacrificed sound quality for the new features.. I have explained all of this in this audio forum in the past and this is why I suggested folks go with Kenwood for better/more accurate navigation and a better quality audio setup regarding the NAV/DVD options out there.

You can still get your system close to the factory specs, but now you will have to spend another $200 or more and get a sound processor!

[RobPaulson]

Didn't I coveer this in a previous thread?

.. I have explained all of this in this audio forum in the past and this is why I suggested folks go with Kenwood for better/more accurate navigation and a better quality audio setup regarding the NAV/DVD options out there.

deng dude i did a search. be easy huh?

I figured thats why it didnt sound as good, however some good news for others may be that by changing the fade to heavy rear, you are able to push more power to the larger speakers, making the sound much much much better and much less likely to distort. I am not done tuning it, but yeah, its gettin there. I have cleaned up the sound and now i just need to up the bass a bit more while keeping the same clean, i'll figure it out though and post some tips for others with the avic.

oh and changing the fade got rid of the 'pingy' sound i described right away, the speakers were literally hurting my ears lol. but putting more through the rear really does make a HUGE difference

[RobPaulson]

OK so this is driving me crazy. I now realize i made a HUGE mistake having this unit installed. The lose of sound quality makes me sick.

Doc if you'd be so kind to help advise me out of this perdiciment i got myself into the cheapest way possible?

It looks like I have 2 options, and im not even sure if #2 is realistic or not . . .

1. sound processor?

2. I do own a 500W cadence bass amp, would I be able to just wire the bose sub through that so the sub would be individually amped from the head unit, and i could put the HPF on the rest of my system to stop the mids from breaking up when playing loud higher bass?

(if you've covered this in a previous thread can you link it please? i did some searching on sound processor and bose etc but couldnt find the thread you talked about this)

Modified by RobPaulson at 6:14 AM 7/21/2008
Modified by RobPaulson at 9:03 AM 7/21/2008

[rjdmmfl1]

OK so this is driving me crazy. I now realize i made a HUGE mistake having this unit installed. The lose of sound quality makes me sick.

Doc if you'd be so kind to help advise me out of this perdiciment i got myself into the cheapest way possible?

It looks like I have 2 options, and im not even sure if #2 is realistic or not . . .

1. sound processor?

2. I do own a 500W cadence bass amp, would I be able to just wire the bose sub through that so the sub would be individually amped from the head unit, and i could put the HPF on the rest of my system to stop the mids from breaking up when playing loud higher bass?

(if you've covered this in a previous thread can you link it please? i did some searching on sound processor and bose etc but couldnt find the thread you talked about this)

Modified by RobPaulson at 6:14 AM 7/21/2008

Modified by RobPaulson at 9:03 AM 7/21/2008

yes, the loss of sound quality when losing the Bose headunit and keeping everything else Bose is striking. Honestly, it can never be reproduced perfectly.

Alpine, JL, and Rockford make great sound processors, but honestly, I think you'd be better off just getting new internal speakers. Wait, noope, then you'd need an aftermarket amp also..Aftermarket headunit + bose Amp + Bose speakers can be a bit difficult to keep in perfect unity, but it can be done... I would look into getting the JL audio cleansweep, and have that hooked up to your system. That may be the cheapest way out..

the absolute BEST way out would be to get aftermarket speakers and amp for the highs, completely getting rid of the Bose altogether ... but again, that's not the cheapest way to go... sorry, wish there was a better option

[RobPaulson]

yes, the loss of sound quality when losing the Bose headunit and keeping everything else Bose is striking. Honestly, it can never be reproduced perfectly.

Alpine, JL, and Rockford make great sound processors, but honestly, I think you'd be better off just getting new internal speakers. Wait, noope, then you'd need an aftermarket amp also..Aftermarket headunit + bose Amp + Bose speakers can be a bit difficult to keep in perfect unity, but it can be done... I would look into getting the JL audio cleansweep, and have that hooked up to your system. That may be the cheapest way out..

the absolute BEST way out would be to get aftermarket speakers and amp for the highs, completely getting rid of the Bose altogether ... but again, that's not the cheapest way to go... sorry, wish there was a better option

Is it just me or should the audio shop that installed it not told me that the bose systems are completely proprietary and replacing any module with anything but the intended would make the whole thing sound like poo? I mean i went in wanting to buy an ipod mount, and she upsold me to the nav (i was seriously considering nav before this anyway and had already done research on the unit she was giving me a good deal on. so i thought i was ok). The entire time she knew full well that i had the bose system.

is that not common knowledge amongst car audio professionals?

[rjdmmfl1]

Is it just me or should the audio shop that installed it not told me that the bose systems are completely proprietary and replacing any module with anything but the intended would make the whole thing sound like poo? I mean i went in wanting to buy an ipod mount, and she upsold me to the nav (i was seriously considering nav before this anyway and had already done research on the unit she was giving me a good deal on. so i thought i was ok). The entire time she knew full well that i had the bose system.

is that not common knowledge amongst car audio professionals?

well yes, compatibilty with Bose systems is common knowledge... they should have also told you to be sure and install a line out converter to dial down the signal leaving your aftermarket unit going to your bose amp/speakers...

did they install a scosche FAI-3 or SLC-4? if they didn't that may also be why your system sounds bad.

To your question, yes they should, but most are more interested in making a sale, and telling you that your system will not sound as good when you replace one of the components isn't the best way to make a sale!

In the future, please ask me, or applebonker, or vballer about these things first.. we aren't making any profit so we will be brutally honest with you regarding everything!

[Barknard]

Rob Paulson, nice name, fight club?

Also, thanks for the info, i was wondering about this for a long time!

[RobPaulson]

did they install a scosche FAI-3 or SLC-4? if they didn't that may also be why your system sounds bad....In the future, please ask me, or applebonker, or vballer about these things first.. we aren't making any profit so we will be brutally honest with you regarding everything!

i have no idea if they installed those

and yeah i learned a very expensive lesson here . . . <Sigh> idk what to do now . . . im gona go down to the shop and ***** and moan until they give me something . . . (I hope)

and to barknard, yeah, fight club =P

[rjdmmfl1]

i have no idea if they installed those

and yeah i learned a $1200 lesson here . . . <Sigh> idk what to do now . . . im gona go down to the shop and ***** and moan until they give me something . . . (I hope)

and to barknard, yeah, fight club =P

definately ask them about the FAI-3 or SLC-4... if they didn't install that, then they did the install wrong!!!

[RobPaulson]

anyone reading this . . . what would you do?

(i dont have the money to replace everything)

[AppleBonker]

anyone reading this . . . what would you do?

(i dont have the money to replace everything)

If it were me, I would save up to replace everything. There's nothing saying you can't purchase things in pieces. A completely aftermarket setup will destroy anything that still uses the Bose components.

Not to offend anyone with this arguement, because this is definitely my own opinion, but I think Bose makes a sub-par audio quality product. I've yet to hear a Bose system that I though sounded good. The reason stereos have the equalizers is so that frequency response peaks can be eliminated. Ideally, the frequency response curve of the entire system will be completely flat. The highest of quality audio components, in an ideal situation, would be able to be mated and turned on and would sound perfect without any tuning. Obviously, the car is not an ideal situation as many things affect the output of the speakers. I have been tuning my car for quite a while because I'm trying to get it perfect, but I'm not making huge changes. The level of tuning required to make the Bose system sound acceptable should be a demonstration of the poor quality speakers involved.

BTW, I installed my head unit long before I got my speakers fully installed. I drove my car around with the Bose speakers and Alpine HU for a few months. I tuned the system a little bit to get it to the point where I wouldn't want to stab myself in the ears from listening to it (or more accurately drive with the radio off), but I didn't waste too much time on it. It would take far too long to get the radio to be decent, and even then it would be lacking big chunks of the audible spectrum. Sorry for the long post, just my $0.02

[rjdmmfl1]

A completely aftermarket setup will destroy anything that still uses the Bose components.

Not to offend anyone with this arguement, because this is definitely my own opinion, but I think Bose makes a sub-par audio quality product. I've yet to hear a Bose system that I though sounded good. The reason stereos have the equalizers is so that frequency response peaks can be eliminated. Ideally, the frequency response curve of the entire system will be completely flat. The highest of quality audio components, in an ideal situation, would be able to be mated and turned on and would sound perfect without any tuning. Obviously, the car is not an ideal situation as many things affect the output of the speakers. I have been tuning my car for quite a while because I'm trying to get it perfect, but I'm not making huge changes. The level of tuning required to make the Bose system sound acceptable should be a demonstration of the poor quality speakers involved.

I stateds this exact same thing in a post a few months ago.... nice to see someone else isn't drinking the kool-aid regarding BOSE.... 4 words...

O -- VER-- RAT--- ED !!!

[Barknard]

If it were me, I would save up to replace everything. There's nothing saying you can't purchase things in pieces. A completely aftermarket setup will destroy anything that still uses the Bose components.

Not to offend anyone with this arguement, because this is definitely my own opinion, but I think Bose makes a sub-par audio quality product. I've yet to hear a Bose system that I though sounded good. The reason stereos have the equalizers is so that frequency response peaks can be eliminated. Ideally, the frequency response curve of the entire system will be completely flat. The highest of quality audio components, in an ideal situation, would be able to be mated and turned on and would sound perfect without any tuning. Obviously, the car is not an ideal situation as many things affect the output of the speakers. I have been tuning my car for quite a while because I'm trying to get it perfect, but I'm not making huge changes. The level of tuning required to make the Bose system sound acceptable should be a demonstration of the poor quality speakers involved.

BTW, I installed my head unit long before I got my speakers fully installed. I drove my car around with the Bose speakers and Alpine HU for a few months. I tuned the system a little bit to get it to the point where I wouldn't want to stab myself in the ears from listening to it (or more accurately drive with the radio off), but I didn't waste too much time on it. It would take far too long to get the radio to be decent, and even then it would be lacking big chunks of the audible spectrum. Sorry for the long post, just my $0.02

I agree completely with Applebonker. Save up and get that superior sound system we all dream about like the Doc and Applebonker! In fact, this sounds like such a good idea; I'm gonna do it!

[RobPaulson]

you guys are right.

I should have done more research.

I have completely lost all faith in BOSE.

I will now NOT be getting an exhaust or lowered anytime soon because this sounds so bad it literally pisses me off every time i get in the car.

I guess my next purchase will be aftermarket speakers and amps . . .





The audio shop that installed it will be looking at it today to try and tune it to sound better again . . . but i honestly dont see it helping much. Based on how i have described my experience with this shop do you think i should continue to give them my business for the speakers etc in the future?

they push the cadence brand . . . what do u guys think of them?

Oh and i did a quick search on ebay and saw a bunch of stock BOSE head units being sold, do people actually buy this crap to replace their stock instead of a kenwood or pioneer or something? Because selling my existing bose components would really help me out with upgrading costs

oh and we should make a sticky for all the other people like me under the impression that bose is the shiz . . . "BOSE SUCKS DONT BUY IT SAVE YOURSELF THREE GRAND IN OPTIONS!!!!"
Modified by RobPaulson at 6:18 AM 7/22/2008

[AppleBonker]

In the long run you will end up with a much better system this way. That I can promise you.

Unless you know someone at that shop and want to support them, I would look elsewhere. Most things can be found from authorized retailers online. When you get around to it, let us know what kind of budget you are working with, and we'll be able to help you piece together something that will sound excellent.

On the Bose HUs being sold, that's probably mostly by people who are replacing theirs with something aftermarket and trying to recover the cost. Some people do try to replace their stock (non-Bose) stuff with Bose, but looking at the car that requires a lot of rewiring which is not worth it IMO.

Finally, we really can't make a Bose bashing thread, and certainly not a sticky. Remember, it is a matter of personal preference. Some people enjoy Bose systems and, in all honesty, it is nearly impossible to show them the error of their ways. I found a few things I try not to discuss with people because there never are any winners: religion, politics and Bose...

[RobPaulson]

I found a few things I try not to discuss with people because there never are any winners: religion, politics and Bose...

haha wow almost pee'd myself

well, you guys converted me thats for damn sure . . . and what would I be able to do with about $1000 in the way of speakers, sub, and amps?

(just throwing a number out there to set a goal for myself)

like i said im a musician and im a FREAK about the way my car should sound, i play bass and listen to alot of jazz/funk thats needs alot of loud high bass (does that make sense? im not sure how else to describe it) a popular example may be something like the bass solo in aeroplane from chili peppers
Modified by RobPaulson at 8:25 AM 7/22/2008

[rjdmmfl1]

haha wow almost pee'd myself

well, you guys converted me thats for damn sure . . . and what would I be able to do with about $1000 in the way of speakers, sub, and amps?

(just throwing a number out there to set a goal for myself)

like i said im a musician and im a FREAK about the way my car should sound, i play bass and listen to alot of jazz/funk thats needs alot of loud high bass (does that make sense? im not sure how else to describe it) a popular example may be something like the bass solo in aeroplane from chili peppers

Modified by RobPaulson at 8:25 AM 7/22/2008

OK, before we go spending large amount of money on amps/speakers (which I think is a great long term solution), first, go back to the shop, and chew them out for not installing an SC-4 or FAI-3... inform them that they should know that that is standard when installing an aftermarket unit into a Bose car... and try to demand a discount on that part and a free install. It is NOT your job to know everything about car audio, that's why you take it to the "professionals" and as such they should conduct themselves like professionals.

It really burns me up when things like this happen to people... 10 years ago, I didn't even know how to hook a CD player up to a car, but now, I could (and have) take the car apart and install my own NAv/DVD players, monitors, speakers, amps, caps, etc. Knowledge is power, and unfortunately we all learn through our mistakes.. betwen Apllebonker and myself (oh yeah and Vballer) we won't let you get duped again).... I really dislike unprofessional and incompetent audio shops

[RobPaulson]

they had said they installed a module which lowers the signal from the head unit to be sure it is at an acceptable level for the bose system. (now this is me learning here so bear with me). The amp'd outs from the headunit is WAY too powerful to go into the bose amplifier so the signal needs to be lowered. They said they did install a unit to compensate for this . . . i need to dig up that sloppily scribbled by hand receipt i got to see if this is on it . . . that model number actually looks familiar.

Knowledge is power, and unfortunately we all learn through our mistakes.. betwen Apllebonker and myself (oh yeah and Vballer) we won't let you get duped again).... I really dislike unprofessional and incompetent audio shops

yeah i was hoping i wouldnt learn this by blowing alot of money on an overpriced option for something im going to be replacing with something else very expensive (but worth it). . . ah well, and thanks for all the help guys i really do appreciate it

im headin back today to have them try and tune it, and thanks to you guys i have some ammo if they try some with me, i can fight back

yes thats right . . . im bringing my light saber this time lol

[rjdmmfl1]

they had said they installed a module which lowers the signal from the head unit to be sure it is at an acceptable level for the bose system. (now this is me learning here so bear with me). The amp'd outs from the headunit is WAY too powerful to go into the bose amplifier so the signal needs to be lowered. They said they did install a unit to compensate for this . . . i need to dig up that sloppily scribbled by hand receipt i got to see if this is on it . . . that model number actually looks familiar.

yeah i was hoping i wouldnt learn this by blowing alot of money on an overpriced option for something im going to be replacing with something else very expensive (but worth it). . . ah well, and thanks for all the help guys i really do appreciate it

im headin back today to have them try and tune it, and thanks to you guys i have some ammo if they try some with me, i can fight back

yes thats right . . . im bringing my light saber this time lol

OK, judging by your statement, I'm pretty sure they installed either the SLC-4, FAI-3, or something similar.. ok, so they did that right.... well other than that, without a real soun processor, you CAN NOT tweak the system...

the Pioneer system has built in EQ curves, probably Rock, Rap, Pop, etc... but not an adjustable EQ band I don't think... that will make it IMPOSSIBLE to tweak your system..

honestly, I would get the JL audio cleanweep, and try to fix it that way... the ALpine Y701 and Rockford 3sixty.2 are a bit more expensive.. seriously, get the clean sweep FIRST... and see if that helps, even if you later get a new amp and new speakers, you can still use the JL audio cleansweep and further fine tune your system!

[RobPaulson]

they told me on the module they installed there is a volume level (power level? not sure what the correct wording for this is) for each corner of the system, FR FL RR RL, they are hoping that by distributing the power a certain way that they can improve the sound quality coming from the entire system.

it pretty much sounds like the mids are both missing certain frequency ranges, and distorting others, and they are hoping they can distribute the power to correct this.

the sound processor . . . would it sound outrageous if i requested they install this for no labor if i get it?

[rjdmmfl1]

they told me on the module they installed there is a volume level (power level? not sure what the correct wording for this is) for each corner of the system, FR FL RR RL, they are hoping that by distributing the power a certain way that they can improve the sound quality coming from the entire system.

it pretty much sounds like the mids are both missing certain frequency ranges, and distorting others, and they are hoping they can distribute the power to correct this.

the sound processor . . . would it sound outrageous if i requested they install this for no labor if i get it?

umm, that would be a bit outrageous... those things are not the easiest things to install if you are keeping you factory Bose amp in play.. and then it will take some time (labor) to tune it properly

[RobPaulson]

umm, that would be a bit outrageous... those things are not the easiest things to install if you are keeping you factory Bose amp in play.. and then it will take some time (labor) to tune it properly

good to know, they have been really nice to me so far. i feel like such a winey spoiled jerk when i keep complaining about the sound quality of this thing to them but they have been understanding and willing to at least tweek the existing system to try and get it to sound the way i want it to. but i still feel like they dropped the ball in explaining to me how the system would sound afterwards.

oh and this isnt new news, but ya a bose rep just got back to me. said its 'not compatible', just like you said, its a system . . im just gona go cry in a corner till i have enough money to replace everything and hope i can get some kind of a return on the bose components i remove . . .

[RobPaulson]

ok so i had an 'ah ha!' moment here . . .

i been wracking my brain to not have to drop thousands, soon, on expanding/fixing this.

I have a sub/amp combo, and an aftermarket head unit with a sub input . . . im severely disappointed at the pressence of bass on the current system, so trying to adjust to compensate for this makes the entire system just sound bad.

so what if i installed my aftermarket sub/amp combo into the existing f700bt, and enabled the HPF on the HU so it would STOP pushing that bass through the wrong speakers (or the speakers that sound bad). The highs of the system dont sound bad, and when i enable the HPF it sounds pretty good, obviously just missing the bass.

doc, ideas?

and if i do this, im going to be attempting the install myself

[Rellz CT]

dont mean to thread jack

but since we are on the subject here

can someone answer this question?

if i keep the stock nav head unit...

how will it effect the rest of my after market system?

i want to replace all speakers and amp...but i want to keep my nav system

how could this turn out?