Alternator rebuild time?

[Katapl]

It's too late to get it tested tonight, so I'm asking for advice here.

I started my car and it initially idled like crap (this happens a lot. it's probably one of a few dirty idle-start related valves). I decided to let the car go on it's own and see if it could correct the idle. It normally dips from 1100 rpms to 600'ish rpms and back and forth for a few seconds. Well, it didn't, and it died instead of raising the idle back up. I tried restarting it, and all it did was crank. I could smell fresh fuel from the exhaust. I tried starting it with the throttle open at that point, and it wouldn't fire at all. I cranked it a bit more, couldn't smell as much fuel, but still no luck.

My alternator has been on it's deathbed for a while now. I already took it off the car and it's sitting in my garage. The car also had a dead battery about 2 days ago. I replaced it and relocated it to the trunk. Perhaps my last battery was even fried by a faulty alternator? It wasn't even taking a charge when I tried it.

[ca18detgabby]

have your battery tested first. and if you so choose take the alt with you to auto zone and have both tested.

if the battery is the issue replace it. if the alt is the issue recharge the battery and rebuild the alt(was about 90 bucks for me and took them 1hr). if both have issues........ well then replace and rebuild.

[Katapl]

When my last battery died (2 days ago), and I moved the battery to the trunk... my father gave me the battery from his pick-up. I know for a fact that battery works great. The idle issues under load was still there even with the new battery. My father and a friend of his also both agreed it was the alternator. I will, in-fact, have it tested tomorrow when AutoZone is open.

[Chris859]

I vote on option C... neither battery or alternator. A bad alternator wouldn't cause the odd running issues you were having, And the fact that it would crank but not start after it died leads away from both as well. But we will see what turns out

[Katapl]

Well, I still think it's the alternator that was the issue for my idle problems. It initially idled at 1100 rpms after started. You would put the electric fan on, and it would drop to about 950 rpms. Then you would put the heater on, and it would drop a few more. After you put the headlights on, well, it was damn near about to die.

[Katapl]

I had the alternator tested at AutoZone, and apparently, it tested out good. I find it hard to believe, and I still think it's not putting out enough for the accessories it has to keep up.

Anyway, before I put the alternator back on, I checked for spark, and it was there! So I put the alternator back on, put everything back together, hit the key, and nothing. I checked for spark, once again, and it wasn't getting any. Why am I not getting spark with the alternator back on?

Also, immediately after you stop cranking the car (i.e. let go of the key), it almost sounds like it's arcing from somewhere towards the back passenger side of the engine bay.

Any more help is appreciated. I'm almost ready to kill myself here.

[dattodude]

I reckon you have a fat 12v cable, that is somehow not behind a fuse, that is touching the chassis. The fat cable to the starter motor is not fused. that would be a likely candidate. Find a friend ..preferably human, and get them to look for sparks in the dark.

If you can't wait for dark. get into that side with a bright torch (www.dealextreme.com) and look for frayed or worn insulation on fat 12v cables.

[ca18detgabby]

I reckon you have a fat 12v cable, that is somehow not behind a fuse, that is touching the chassis. The fat cable to the starter motor is not fused. that would be a likely candidate. Find a friend ..preferably human, and get them to look for sparks in the dark.

If you can't wait for dark. get into that side with a bright torch (www.dealextreme.com) and look for frayed or worn insulation on fat 12v cables.

wouldnt this be an issue with or w/o the altenator?

doesnt the alternator have an inline fuse? if this was blown would that kill the circuit?

after re-installing the alternator did you still put out 12Vs(as you ran w/o alternator...)

could always be any number of loose connections.

I would have the battery checked out. (as you had it run down on you before) and unless you have some serious drain on the system or faulty ground you having or not having alternator should not stop you from doing anything.

hell our drag car doesnt have any acc other than 2 HUGE FANs, gauges, and HLs......... the alternator hasnt been in there in 10 years. one day my S13 will be able to keep within tail lights of the bastard.

[Katapl]

Update!

It turns out the igniter chip wasn't fully plugged in. I secure it, and as I'm putting the wire with the nut onto the alternator, it sparks. Whoops . It turns out the battery is still connected. I disconnect it, put the wire onto the alternator, and head to radioshack for electrical contact cleaner (pretty disgusting cold air idle valve connector). It runs super on the way up, but it won't start after I shut it down.

So I push start it, and it literally limps it's way home. Anytime it goes near 3k rpms, it stutters, and with the throttle wide open around 2800, it hardly goes at all. I borrowed a multimeter and checked the battery while it was running... 8.40 volts!

What could I have shorted out when I made contact on the alternator with that hot wire? I'm going to get a battery for my own multimeter and checked the alternator fuse first. I'd hate to think I FINALLY fried the alternator now. Who knows?

[mod_mastaz]

There isn't an alternator fuse(that I know of anyway). It's a fusible link. You might have melted it. Check to see if it has a lot of resistance. If not, then check for damaged wires going to and from the alternator.

[Katapl]

There isn't an alternator fuse(that I know of anyway). It's a fusible link.

Right. It didn't test good. I was able to jumper it and get everything working. I'm going to Nissan tomorrow and see if I can find a new one.

[Chris859]

On the idle progressively drpping as you turn on other loads - Is a problem with the engine not compensating and letting more air through the IAC valve. As an alternator puts out more power (increased loads) it takes more power to turn it...

[Katapl]

Well, I replaced the alternator fuse (or fusible link, I suppose). It started beautifully and other than some very very odd backfiring and stuttering on cold, it drove around very nice, had all it's power, etc.

After I got home, shut it off and tried to restart it, the 'clicking' is back! There's a short somewhere, and I haven't been able to find it. We put the car in the dark and tried looking into the bay and under the car. I think it's coming from the back passenger side, possibly around the starter. Someone else says it sounds like it's coming from a coilpack.

Where do you guys think I outta check?

[Katapl]

p.s. it seems to be getting a very small yellow spark. i doubt it's a healthy spark at all. would a crap spark possibly be the issue, and where should i start on that?

sounds like the clicking is coming from the starter. it cranks over nicely, but it just won't fire up.
Modified by Katapl at 5:34 PM 4/4/2008

[ca18detgabby]

p.s. it seems to be getting a very small yellow spark. i doubt it's a healthy spark at all. would a crap spark possibly be the issue, and where should i start on that?

sounds like the clicking is coming from the starter. it cranks over nicely, but it just won't fire up.

Modified by Katapl at 5:34 PM 4/4/2008

I would start with the coil pack ground...........

just time to start playing.

ps stupid question now

p.s. it seems to be getting a very small yellow spark. i doubt it's a healthy spark at all. would a crap spark possibly be the issue, and where should i start on that?

sounds like the clicking is coming from the starter. it cranks over nicely, but it just won't fire up.

Modified by Katapl at 5:34 PM 4/4/2008

that it fires fine..... how is the mirco switch under the clutch? Mine wore out and stopped the car from turning over(just clicked). I would give that a check too. Is your battery voltage good? this much time with alternator issues and such....

[Katapl]

Battery is fine. Here's the current situation... coilpack 1 & 2 fire fine. However, 3 & 4 do not fire at all. I've switched the coilpacks themselves around, and amazingly, it still does the same thing. That's why I thought it was the harness, but that's entirely good. The coilpack ground is great. I found out about 4 months ago that you can still drive it without the coilpack ground on, it's just a pretty bad ride with lots of misfire. I had forgotten about the ground once, so don't ask. That isn't the issue here, though.

I have been keeping the battery charged in-between attempts. It's voltage is great, and it's a brand new battery that I bought yesterday. As far as the clutch switch you're speaking of, I have no idea. From what I know, I don't even have a switch for that. I've been able to start the car without the clutch in for a long, long time now.

The click noise seems to come from the starter, too.

[ca18detgabby]

the issue sound to be harness related. since you had issues with the ignitor before, I would check that out and make sure it is good.

[Katapl]

I'm pretty certain it's good, as far as output goes. We took a multimeter to it and it came out okay. There could possibly be something bad inside of it, though. It was only slightly unplugged before. It's secured now.

I'm sorting through wiring diagrams right now. I'd like to say coilpack 3 & 4 don't have any power, and that's what I'm trying to trace back right now. However, that doesn't explain the ticking noise coming from the starter when it's cranked over.

[Katapl]

Whoa.

I just unplugged the Igniter chip, engine temp sensor, and idle air control valve to check the connections. I reconnected everything, and it actually fired up! It took about 10 seconds of me on the throttle to keep it up, and then it held it's own idle. I took it for a drive, and it ran PERFECT with all the accessories on. That includes the headlights, fan, heater, and other crap like turn signals and courtesy lights (cluster still doesn't light up. what a p.o.s.!). I tested the battery with the car running, and it read 14.08 volts. It never dropped until I turned the heater on full blast. Then I believe it went to 14.02. When I shut it off, it climbed back up to 14.08. Either way, it's getting a steady flow.

I'm completely surprised and still afraid to shut it off when I drive it somewhere. I'm going to take my time spend tomorrow to drive around town and continually shut it off at my house to see if I can get a repeat of my problem.

Any ideas on why it suddenly fired up and ran better than it ever has before? I previously had a really bad connection on the idle air control valve that I cleaned up. The plug on that thing is still a little iffy. The igniter chip and engine temp sensor were the only 2 other things I unplugged and reconnected.

[ca18detgabby]

sounds like something was loose...... now it sounds like it running alot better

I would check out the IACV connection and it maybe be your idler issue.

[Katapl]

It's now dropping idle with accessories on, again. I think I may have a bad diode in my alternator. The voltage on the battery definitely isn't reading correctly. I'm pretty sure the alternator is, in-fact, going out for once and all.

[Katapl]

Alternator checks out good. I just had a rebuilder check it himself. It's probably some type of sensor that's not working correctly.

I don't know how much longer I can go without just parting it out and trying out Toyota's for a change. This is really, really getting to me. Any ideas on what sensors to check and where to go from here?

[r34 gtr]

Ground straps. Big ones. 4ga battery cables from auto zone. Run them from the chassis to the intake manifold and the head on the exhaust side. Make sure you clean the connection points of paint and stuff so you have a solid connection.

[Katapl]

I'll try that when I get the alternator tomorrow. I just can't see how initially, the car was running great. Then one day later, it bogs down when I turn the same accessories on. It's a 'wtf?' type of moment for me right now.