"Alternative" fuel survey number 1 - Your personal preference

[Ever Victorious]

OK... this will be the first of 2 alternative fuel surveys.

In this one, I'd like to know which alternative fuel you PERSONALLY would use if given the opportunity.

[SPFDRum]

Hydrogen when available. Produce via fuel cell technology.The rest, all BS. It takes mostly (especailly coal) fossil fuel to produce the electric for 1,3 and 5. Not to mention the unit to unit ratio of ethanol is horrendous. Bio-diesel, well so far that has the ability to use lots of fossil fuel to produce and have lousy quality control.

[BBISHOPPCM]

What about Naptha? I use it in my lawnmowers and antique gas engines. A bit expensive at $5 a gallon, and only has an octane rating of about 50... but it burns much cleaner. I cannot run E10 in my 1934 International Harvester stationary engine, doesn't like it for some reason.

[motoguy128]

I don't think there are any great solutions other than smaller vehicles, or much smaller motors that reduce overall consumption. I think all soultions and in various combinations show promise to help to problem but there's not 1 solution because each have servere limitations.

Hydrogen is really just another form of a battery to reduce localized emissions since it needs electricity and typically natural gas to produce it and ultimately results in a net enery loss.

E85 isn't practical at our current consumption. This year many farmer shifted to planting more corn in resonse to the ethanol boom. Expect corn syrup prices to increase soon as a result as less corn syrup is produced and corn supplies are stretched thin. Ethanol also takes a lot of electricity to produce and transport, the net energy output is I beleive under 30%.

Electric only might make a comeback. Coal, nuclear, and hydroelectric are still viable effecient realatively low polluting energy sources that don;t reduice petroleum.

Biodiesel isn't a bad solution.

[BBISHOPPCM]

Oh, don't EVER run Naptha (AKA Coleman Fuel) in any motor vehicle, it burns too hot and has too low of an octane rating. On the flip side, it has a very long shelf life and is very pure. I know a guy who runs aircraft fuel in his motorcycle, swears by it (only $8/gal)

[rwanttaja]

I know a guy who runs aircraft fuel in his motorcycle, swears by it (only $8/gal)

In which case, he's spending about $3/gallon too much. Actually, about $5/gallon too much, since the aviation fuel isn't really giving him any benefit and is possibly harming the bike.

I own a small plane, and was once approached by a couple of teenagers with jerry cans asking me to buy aviation fuel for them. It was ironic, since I had a couple of jerry cans myself, and had just gotten done filling my airplane with fuel I'd bought from the Chevron station down the road.

There are three major differences between aviation fuel and autogas:

1. The aviation fuel is 100 octane, which is a measure of knock resistance, not an indicator of how much "power" is in the fuel. Your vehicle *can* perform better on aviation fuel, but must be specifically set up to handle the higher octane (and set back down when you run car gas, or the engine will ping like crazy).

2. The aviation fuel contains lead...about four times as much lead, in fact, as the old leaded car gas. Modern car and motorcycle engines are designed to operate without lead, so running on leaded fuel does NOT do them any good. It clogs the oxygen sensors the car's computer uses to monitor the engine status, for example. It kills the catalytic converter (which is why lead was eliminated from car gas to start with). Both things will really hose you up if you live in an area that requires regular emissions checks.

3. It is much more stable than car gas, i.e., it won't start to break down if the vehicle doesn't operate for a couple of months.

Ron

[proxim2020]

Spoken like a true champ.

I agree with SPFDRum, hydrogen or hydrogen/electric vehicles will eventually be the fuel of the future. In the soft term though I would like to see some diesel electrics. But I guess first we have to get some diesels in this country.

[Martin Roy]

Being from Québec, Canada, I'm obviously rooting for the good old electric car. In the States, you see this alternative as a problem, since most of your power comes from Nuclear, Natural gases and Coal plants. Up here, we have 1 nuclear and 1 thermal power plant. All the rest is hydroelectricity, providing power to most of the North East (Québec, Ontario, Maritimes, upper states, ...).

By going the way of renewable power sources and long term power storage, I believe electricity is the way to go. Not only would it produce strictly no gases, not even water, but it would also remove the need to have "explosions" within the motor. Think about all the car components that we'll be able to remove and lower the price of the car itself. No more explosion chamber, pistons, gas tank, alternator, way less coolant, ... Just one big battery and an electromagnet to transform electricity in rotationary motion.

Also, we, as a civilization, are far from mastering the potentiel of renewable energy. Hydroelectricity is far ahead, with the usual dams, but the tides can also produce electricity (example: France). Sure, solar, wind and geothermal activities also work, but are way less efficient. On a more fictional point of view, one day, someone will find a way to store the energy provided by a lightning.

Anyway, all that only to say that I believe the way to go is with electricity, a.k.a. Instant power !

[KimberKenobi]

Just to note: Hydrogen only makes an efficient battery, not an efficient fuel source so your source for energy would still need to be something else... like solar or wind or coal or whatnot.

The hydrogen run busses in Iceland sure do emit clean, but it would be more energy efficient to run on hydrogen batteries if we could charge them with a cleaner power source (solar, wind, geothermal, whatever works where you live)

I have a B.S. in Natural Resources and Sustainable Systems...

[BBISHOPPCM]

This guy is also an aviation buff (owns a few small planes). The motorcycle in question is one he built himself, with a high compression V-Twin (not sure of manufacturer). He also restores antique cars, specializing in corvettes. Smart guy, really. But you're absolutely right, leaded fuel will destroy a modern emissions system and cause excessive lead buildup in the combustion chamber, and any octane rating over the manufacturers' recommendation is a total waste of money.

[motoguy128]

Just to note: Hydrogen only makes an efficient battery, not an efficient fuel source so your source for energy would still need to be something else... like solar or wind or coal or whatnot.

Good to hear this from someone besides myself. I'm just a regular engineer, but I read a fair amount. Hydrogen is a good option when paried with a vairable energy source like wind or solar which is almost useless for utility power, where you need mostly base load genration and then a small amount of controllable swing or stand-by capacity. Hydrogen is relatively compact, and less polluting that producing millions or conventional batteries containing metals such as nickle, lead or lithium that will eventually need to be recycled or otherwise disposed of.

Unfortunately most Hydrogen production is currently done by cracking Methane (Natural Gas) and still requires a lot of electricity to run a very large, expensive compressor. My company is installing a Hydrogen plant now. (we also have a natural gas co-gentation plant and are building a new coal boiler). To maximize storage, you need another compressor and cryo-refrigeration system to store it in liquid form. This is how it is shipped by truck. NOTE: never cut in front of all white semis with "PRAXAIR" on the side. They are often carrying liquid oxygen or hydrogen... although sometimes just Nitrogen.

[proxim2020]

NOTE: never cut in front of all white semis with "PRAXAIR" on the side. They are often carrying liquid oxygen or hydrogen... although sometimes just Nitrogen.

Funny you should mention this. You should probably never cut off a semi. I just looked out my window to see a car cut off a semi. The semi ended up T Boning the car and pushing it down the off ramp for about 12 secs. Popped all the tires and left a nice dent in the side of the car. From the looks of it, everyone's going to walk away. That would be freaky for the driver. Being pushed down the road and all you can see out of your window is MACK. It was freaky enough for me to watch the whole thing unfold

[KimberKenobi]

Being pushed down the road and all you can see out of your window is MACK. It was freaky enough for me to watch the whole thing unfold

O.O

second? yeah, I definitely second not cutting off semis...