Alternate, bizarre transmission flush idea...

[oldmako]

I have two cars equipped with transmission coolers. Both utilize the engines radiator. Both need to be flushed. I have poured over this forum and weighed the pros and cons of do it yourself and commercial flush.

Tell me what is wrong with the following idea, or what is right and what could be done mo' betta'.

Take two drywall buckets. Into one add a significant quantity of ATF (however much you think will move through the radiator in a given time frame).... I have no idea if the fluid will move through the converter in park. Any??

Disconnect the transmission hoses from the radiator and add a 3-4 foot section of hose to each. Take the free ends and place them in the two drywall buckets.

Start engine.

Q. Obviously one hose will fill it's bucket as the fluid is pushed by the trans pump. Will the other end draw ATF from the full bucket by suction? Does the Torque Converter move fluid any time the engine is running? Or does the fluid remain until the car shifts??

If it flows through the TC, then when the full bucket reached empty, theoretically one would have done a complete fluid exchange.

If this idiotic stunt works, then one could easily change the fluid fairly quickly without going under the car 8 or 9 times.

Flame away!

[maxnix]

I have two cars equipped with transmission coolers. Both utilize the engines radiator.

Actually, they are more accurately described as heat exchangers rather than coolers as the coke can in the bottom tank of the VH41DE will only cool if the ATF is heated beyond 200° F, 6r wahtever your coolant is running at operating temperature.

Cavitation on the supply side could damage your transmission seriously when it is starved. If the supply were high enough to prevent that and the feed were not restrictred.......

Personally, I think it is amazing how many people think their transmission is not worth a $100 fee to use a $10K machine.

[oldmako]

Two transmission shops in my area tell me NOT to use a pressurized machine on an old trans. Drain and fill period. Perhaps they don't own a machine, perhaps they are lousy shops. Perhaps they are right? There has been significant discussion on this site as to the merits of a machine flush as well.

The cheapest shop where I live is 145 bucks and they have no idea what a Q is. I'm not sure I want them to do the flush. The dealer wants $250 and will not use M1, only ATF. I have no idea why. There is more to this than simply cost. What about the guy who lives nowhere near a reputable shop?

As far as cavitation, obviously a deal breaker, but how do you know that will occur? The pump sucks fluid from somewhere. I assume that the pump is in a fairly low spot in the box to assure positive head pressure. It would be relatively easy to assure a positive flow of fluid to the supply side with a little imagination. Hell for that matter you could simply stick a huge funnel in the tube and have a dude stand there with an open can in each hand assuring positive flow. I cannot imagine that the actual flow rate amounts to much. Plenty of psi, but fairly low volume. The nice thing about the bucket idea is that you could mark off 12 quarts (or whatever your cars capacity was) and as it nears the mark shut it down. My truck has a gigantic radiator and I am not concerned about it's preheating of the ATF. The coke can on my Q will be replaced soon. Obviously the system has been marginalized to Infinitis engineering standards and cost, but it left the factory that way.

Does ATF circulate through out the entire trans in park or neutral or only the gearbox?

[qship96]

Just drain/fill it 6x and you will have 85% new fluid in it, or take it to a shop and pay the 100-150 for the machine exchange and end up with 90-95% new fluid-your choice....both methods if repeated every 25-30K miles will eliminate the fluid as being the cause of any transmissionproblem or premature failure.

[oldmako]

Just drain/fill it 6x and you will have 85% new fluid in it, or take it to a shop and pay the 100-150 for the machine exchange and end up with 90-95% new fluid-your choice....both methods if repeated every 25-30K miles will eliminate the fluid as being the cause of any transmissionproblem or premature failure.

That's where I'm headed I believe. I just figured that if it's being pumped out, and you could replace it at the same time, you could do the job quickly and easily. You would also assure a maximized fresh fluid concentration.

I'm just thinking out loud with my Tandy 100.

[qship96]

Your 2 bucket method wont work unfortunatly -the new fluid from the bucket would need to be pushed in, it will not automatically suck in in from the bucket.

the Q transmission moves about 4 quarts a minute thru the transmission and cooler in park at idle speed, to answer your other question.

[Q451990]

Ditto on QShip's analysis. The transmission pump does not suck fluid in... I tried this exact idea years ago.

Heath

[maxnix]

Ditto on QShip's analysis. The transmission pump does not suck fluid in... I tried this exact idea years ago.

Heath

Why new ATF bucket has to be higher for gravity feed, at minimum.

[DrewQ45]

Two transmission shops in my area tell me NOT to use a pressurized machine on an old trans. Drain and fill period. Perhaps they don't own a machine, perhaps they are lousy shops. Perhaps they are right? There has been significant discussion on this site as to the merits of a machine flush as well.

The single biggest detriment I have seen facing Q trannys is driving around with a clogged filter. Old used up transmission fluid that is flowing well is better for the transmission than fresh fluid with a clogged filter. If you find that your car suddenly won't shift into gear after performing fine up to that point, the filter is a big suspect.

The reason why many shops will tell you not to flush an old transmission is this.... They are doing it WRONG. There needs to be a clean filter in place BEFORE and AFTER a flush. Trying to flush through an old clogged filter makes no sense and if a pan drop/filter change is done prior to flush, the flush drives up sediment from all corners of the trans into the new filter, effectively clogging it.... so the customer drives away with a false feeling of satisfaction. Mind you, you'll be okay if regularly serviced but when one drives in with years of abuse, a single filter change is not the way to go.

Of course filters which are nothing more than a metal mesh/screen can get expensive....so I "wash" mine. You can search under my id for the process.

I learned all this from the school of hard knocks.

...Drew..

[maxnix]

Thanks Drew for reiterating information established previously on this board. Unfortuantely, washiing does not remove particles trapped within the screen. Not replacing it means it is not functioning at full capacity. It might be 98%, might be 89%, might be 60%, just don't know unless you flow test it, which costs more than replacing it. Best reason to remove it is to inspect it nad replace O ring. At that point, what's $20 for a new screen for a $3K transmission and 25K miles?

Two observations.

1.) The BG system uses the transmission pump, so how can this be bad for the transmission, unless you don't replace the interior filter screen? This allows the prudent owner to time the fill and assess the health of the transmission. After all, it is really just a hydraulic pump powered by the engine.

2.) "Technicians" who give such warnings are really saying "Don't use me for this service because I don't know schnizzle from shinola!" Listen to them.

Caveat emptor!

[DrewQ45]

Thanks Drew for reiterating information established previously on this board. Unfortuantely, washiing does not remove particles trapped within the screen. Not replacing it means it is not functioning at full capacity. It might be 98%, might be 89%, might be 60%, just don't know unless you flow test it, which costs more than replacing it. Best reason to remove it is to inspect it nad replace O ring. At that point, what's $20 for a new screen for a $3K transmission and 25K miles?

Don't we do a lot of that...reiterating?... If folks used search, there would be less of that... I'm sure you can agree with that.

I can also accuse you of reiterating everything you just said Brian.... wrong info at that. You've obviously never peered into a transmission screen or tried the process I described. Worse yet, you seem to know very little about the filter at all. "Particles trapped within the screen"... you're even giving percentages. Have you ever cut one open or looked closely at the mesh? I have. Have you ever wiped a clean paper towel across it after flushing with gasoline? Do you understand that tiny particles are not meant to be trapped by a SCREEN (new or old) and have little effect on the transmission? After a gas flush, the filter does function at 100% capacity and of course the O ring has to be inspected. I have nothing against buying new filters for those who choose to... Just understand that you'll need more than one.

What the heck...I'll even throw in the links....AGAIN

Here is how you flush transmission filter...

zerothread?id=234307

For the doubters…. proof that it works....

zerothread?id=238955

[maxnix]

For the doubters…. proof that it works....

zerothread?id=238955

If that is proof, then science would still be teaching phlogiston theory.

All that is evidence that the screen does indeed trap grunge and particles. There is no none zero nada evidence that your method of "cleaning" the screen restores it to as new. For $24 and the labor included in the O ring replacemnt, I'll go for the new screen.

"Member's standards vary." - Q45tech

Only Dennis has documented over a period of time that transmission maintenance with machine exchanges with M1 ATF with Lube Guard Red, pan drops, filter, O ring, gasket replacements and an auxiliary ATF cooler affected quantifiably the performance ong term of an RE4. No one else has come close.

To maintain that doing less is just as good is not only asinine, but stupid and intellectually dishonest. If that is your goal, you have achieved it.

Maybe you need to talk to that guy Blunt Smoker who said a hand drill and a schrader valve was all that was required to repair active struts.

The other assertations in your post are too foolish and so obvoiusly false they do not merit even this mention. And some poor guys at AAMCO and Cottmanns need to feed their kids.

[bullittandy]

I have also cut apart a transmission "screen" and there is no reason what so ever to replace it unless your anal. I included pictures in my post about this, the screen holes are enormous, relatively speaking. It can be easily cleaned.

Don't call people names and don't insult people, it hurts the board's rep.

[captainluigi]

Andy, the correct politically correct word is ''linear'' .

Meaning denoting a measurement in one direction, as in anal.

You do recognize sarcasm yes?

[DrewQ45]

If that is proof, then science would still be teaching phlogiston theory.

All that is evidence that the screen does indeed trap grunge and particles. There is no none zero nada evidence that your method of "cleaning" the screen restores it to as new. For $24 and the labor included in the O ring replacemnt, I'll go for the new screen.

"Member's standards vary." - Q45tech

Only Dennis has documented over a period of time that transmission maintenance with machine exchanges with M1 ATF with Lube Guard Red, pan drops, filter, O ring, gasket replacements and an auxiliary ATF cooler affected quantifiably the performance ong term of an RE4. No one else has come close.

To maintain that doing less is just as good is not only asinine, but stupid and intellectually dishonest. If that is your goal, you have achieved it.

Maybe you need to talk to that guy Blunt Smoker who said a hand drill and a schrader valve was all that was required to repair active struts.

The other assertations in your post are too foolish and so obvoiusly false they do not merit even this mention. And some poor guys at AAMCO and Cottmanns need to feed their kids.

Anyone that reads the posts will realize you truly haven't done too much hands on, especially where the Q transmission is concerned. I'm telling members they need two filters or two filter cleans and you think I'm telling them to do less? Since when is doing more = less?

You keep repeating the same negative mantra sprinkled liberally with Q45tech worship. You're doing a helluva job of making a fool or yourself in this forum. Keep up the good work, you won't get any further assistance from me as you clearly don't need it.

....Drew....