Daunttless, who has no experience with anything, sold people motors that are not even in the states yet, and basically is all talk??

Come on now guys. Stop being internet mechanics and go be real ones. Then you'll realize why the real ones are never on the net at all.

You have to give night respect for taking the initiative, doing the swap himself, and then sharing all the info he knows with people on the net. Their are a lot of people on the net who don't have a clue, and theres a lot of people who know more than you or I ever will. Talking **** about dauntt is just out of line...

Also Osofast, do you have a website or anything with those prices? Where are you located? Are you the guy who did the 26 but had old pictures from a 2jz-gte swap? I'm willing to shell out for mounts if they give me the 50/50 weight balance your site claims (or is that also left over from the 2jz-gte?).

Quote »What is the point of bringing all of this up again? Trying to make me look bad now because I have a lot of your business? Anyways, here goes a few things:[/quote]I didn't bring this up...this forum came to my attention where we were being bashed, and if someone has bad things to say about me, I want to know why!

Quote »#1 you don't make the intake manifold....it was Jason's design, but we all know that MIKE from TOP HAT PERFORMANCE builds them for you as well as your intercoolers....so stop taking credit.[/quote]Actually, Mike has built 1 intake manifold, which has yet to go on a car, and the intake manifold wasn't even for us, it's for his car Also, he has built a total of 2 intercoolers, to my knowledge. For your information, all the engineering, in both design, and assembly, was done by unStable Hybrids. We contracted Mike at TopHat for the actual fabrication work. We also built the prototype.

Quote »#2 You guys charge up the a$$ for what you do[/quote]You are going to have to clarify that point...since when is $40/hr a high labor rate, especially for custom work! It appears that you have done some comparisons of things that aren't the same. Our install price may be higher than yours, but it includes some things that your install does not.

Quote »#3 You give out "misleading" information of which I have to correct with many of my customers....also, you don't list all the options buyers have such as not going with "YOUR" custom motor mounts and using stock ones.[/quote]Really? What customers of ours have you interviewed in determining this. FYI, anyone wanting an install from us contacts us on the phone and by email numerous times, where we have plenty of chances to discuss all their options...and the reasons to do it one way or the other.

Quote »#4 You've had 2 cars (so far that I am aware of) that have taken you more than 8 months to complete or even get to which is very unprofessional.[/quote]I am not sure who you are talking about...I don't have any regular customers that have taken anywhere near that long.

Quote »#5 You're just 2 guy in the middle of GA with a garage and a bunch of cars sitting outside with no real supplier for aftermarket parts or stock replacement parts and you don't like to give out cross referencing info....girl named Heather in FL took 3 months to get her water pump....got her RB20 installed by you. She asked you guys and you couldn't get one....called Motorex and 3 months later had one. It takes me a week to get one here from Japan.[/quote]Actually, we purchased the water pump, and went to Florida to change it on site for her, at no charge. We have yet to buy anything from Motorex. Also, now we are just 2 guys...but in the last thread, we were the big corporation trying to keep the little guy down?

Quote »There are many other things I am not fond of with your company. I offer a lot more than you to customers, both over the phone and over the internet. I also price way lower than you guys and supply my own engines and parts.

You wanted to bring this whole topic back up, frankly, it was finished a long time ago...100+ posts. Let's not ruin another forum listing for you to try and gain back a little business alright?[/quote]Don't BS me here...I didn't bring this back up. What would you do if you found a thread where people were talking bad about you with no back up. If someone has a problem with us for an experience or something we have said, then we want to resolve any issue. If you don't like us just because you are competing with us, then you should have changed your attitude. There are plenty of people that compete with us that we have great relationships, including Jeff and Yury at HeavyThrottle, Marco Vargas, McKinney Motorsports, Enjuku, etc.

I am not the one ruining the forum listing here...all I am trying to do is understand why people are spreading misinformation trying to lead people away from us.

Quote »Dennis - another thing, what was the point of listing our argument on 240SXforums.com? I hadn't bashed you here at all.....and if you haven't yet read this thread, not even the MODERATORS like you guys....Daunttless and WDRacing.....go read the posts prior to these on pages 1-3 and see for yourself. [/quote]Thanks, I did read the entire thread. I did not bring up the arguement on 240sxforums.com, someone else did. I just posted the link for the interested parties.

I noticed that the Moderators don't like us. They didn't seem to give any reasons. I find that disappointing...and would like to hear their reasons.

Thanks,

Dennis KalmanunStable Hybrids

they are upset you have way more experience.

Mattback: I don't even want to get into it with you again, I try to be pleasant, but you really have no desire to do so, you really don't want that battle here. Unlike you, I actually help people on these boards, so as far as I'm concerned you can get the hell out if you don't like it here, feel free to slander me elsewhere.

d240t2: You're welcome to email me offboards, [email protected] - I'd be happy to talk to you about my position, which has by no means been terrible. I try not to "attack" other people or shops unless absolutely necessary, especially considering my position here. I prefered Unstable when JB was working there as I really like the guy, but it's not really something that should be discussed here, so you're welcome to email me.

Enjoy your day!

Just a quick note about u-h and their claim that they never said that the kit...or mounts are not required...Chek out u-h's website under the install services and you will see that it states that the mounts are and I quote" which are required" needed for the RB install???????????????????????????????????

Quote »"Here is the thread where Night tried to "Call Out Unstable Hybrids". See for yourself. For the person who claimed that it didn't go over well just because the people on that site love us, you know that is wrong. Everybody is backing him up until we show up at the bottom of the 2nd page and respond to everything he said.

This in my opinion is bringing up the past. [/quote]Except that was on page 4...and it was brought up by ItzGenX on page 2! I repeat, I didn't bring it up!

Quote »Well, I learned a lot about RB engines and the swap in general the past couple days from a guy on another forum. I stumbled upon the forum because he was calling out unstable about their pricing and lies on their FAQs(unstable corrected most or defended as opinion). Anyway, it was on 240sxforums.com. He got bashed to hell because the forum over there loves unstable. [/quote]I had to disagree with his summary of the events...what happened as far as I could tell was that everyone believed you and bashed unstable, then when I got on there and explained everywhere where you misquoted us or passed on incorrect information (like saying that the Skyline radiator wouldn't fit without cutting the hood...and that we were lying about using it), they started to turn toward us. I'd hardly say that the people on that forum loved us before that thread...since I was not a member there nor had I posted there. Which makes me wonder...why does this keep coming up on the forums that I don't participate in? Why didn't you ever try to a) challenge us face to face, on a forum that you knew I read or b) try to actually contact us to sort out the discrepancies in information we had (discrepancies between our info and yours). When you did contact us, it was after you posted on the internet all your misquotes and misinformation, and you wouldn't even tell us your name!

Quote »Jason and I are cool with each other and I've dropped the whole deal since that thread. I didn't bring it back up, nor post the link. I have remained out of the "bashing" thing when it comes to forums. Also, no one is saying bad things about YOU. You know as well as I do that you are hardly a part of Unstable. You've got too much else going on in your life to be there often enough. People are talking about Unstable, not you.[/quote]Jason and you are NOT cool. When I wrote the previous response, I was at the shop with Jason over my shoulder. He feels as I feel...that you have been most unprofessional and that you have spread more misinformation than useful information.

Why does my actual time commitment to unStable matter? I never said I worked full time on cars out at unStable, in fact I tell people...I answer tech emails, update the website, do advertising, etc. I am very definitely a part of unStable. I have chosen to work with Jason for many reasons, so if people are talking about the shop, they ARE talking about me.

Quote »Sorry for the misunderstanding on my behalf. You have built 2 intake manifolds, one out of a straight pipe and bondo, and the other out of some other combo. Mike has built a nice looking manifold for his engine....that has yet to come back to him yet and it's been sitting at the shop for 9 months.

Jason did design the manifold....he's a bright guy when it comes to designing things, never said he wasn't.[/quote]The first manifold was a prototype...not meant to be the nicest looking thing. The 2nd is on our website, built exactly like Mike's...it is just the one he copied. I repeat, all engineering, in both design AND ASSEMBLY, was done at UH. In other words...we told Mike exactly how to make them. Mike is not a paying customer...he has done work on a labor trade...and as such, his car has not been the 1st priority since we need to do paid swaps just to keep the business alive. The car and engine have not been sitting that long at all.

Quote »So what does your install price include? Mine includes labor. Total cost of an install from me is $1450 which includes all wiring, fluids, filters, an install. Then you tach on another $3250 for a clip. Viola, you're still under 5k.[/quote]From our website:

Note: ALL SWAP PRICES ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL! Our swaps include many things that other companies don't. We clean and paint all engines we install. We clean the engine bays of your car (and offer to mask and paint for an additional charge). We remove the valve covers for painting, and while they are off, inspect the top of the motor. We also remove oil pans and inspect them, modifying if necessary. This can mean the difference between a spun bearing due to lack of oil pressure on an S13 SR and a healthy motor! Many SR motors come with dented oil pans near the oil pickup, and this has caused many people's engines premature, catastrophic failure. We avoid that hassle altogether. While our RB pricing currently doesn't include custom mounts or intake manifold, it does include the labor required to install them. We also try to take great care in wiring, soldering all of our wire splices, routing wiring out of the way in flex loom or electrical tape, etc.

I don't know what offhand you do on that list...but we also prime the oil pumps to make sure the engine starts off without oil problems.

Quote »I've spoken to many members who have received misleading or bad information from Unstable. I won't quote anyone or their names for their own sake as they wish to remain neutral. Needless to say, I corrected whatever they were confused about and 80% of them just ordered clips.[/quote]Well...I can't speak intelligently about the situation if I don't know what they were told or why. Perhaps they misunderstood what we were saying. Perhaps we had a reason for doing things differently from how you do them...but they didn't ask why.

Quote »There is one member on 240SXforums.com who you took a long time to deal with. He is very unhappy with the service and came to me with questions in confidence. Per his request, I shall not say names because he is pending legalities.[/quote]Well, I'm not exactly sure who you are talking about, but I can tell a story about a customer. We have had a customer who was originally told that, "Due to the impending shipping strike, this clip could take 90 days or more." After 110 days, that person was not remotely understanding to the fact that we didn't have any control over it. Many other motorset options were given to that customer, none of which were satisfactory, until we finally located an SR clip we could offer. That customer was also moved ahead of others for potential install.

Part of the problem is...you only get one side of a story and you take it as fact. That is why many of the things you have said about us are just plain incorrect.

Quote »From what Mattback (who seems to be backing you) said on tamparacing.com, she ordered the pump through Motorex which took 3 months to arrive.[/quote]Just because he backs us doesn't mean he speaks for us. That water pump was purchased and installed by unStable Hybrids, on site in Florida, for no charge. It also didn't take 3 months. I am not sure when the water pump went out offhand...but the car was running perfectly at Nopi in September...and the water pump was changed in December. That is only 3 months...and the water pump was fine at Nopi. Once again, your information is incorrect.

Quote »Dennis - you really aren't my competition.[/quote]You are the one who said we were! You aren't really our competition because you don't really have the ability to do any custom fabrication work. That is the difference in my opinion. Besides, we have only been professional on message boards and you have been anything but.

Quote »Not just this, but I also have extensive aftermarket support for these engines from both Australia and Japan.[/quote]Uh...and? So do we. You keep bringing up examples of things that we waited on rather than getting shipped quickly. We can get things shipped quickly. That option is offered to our customers, but most don't want to pay the higher costs! We offer up the cheap way and the quick way...and most take the cheap way. We have ordered parts and had them in stock within a week before...and we can do that on a regular basis if the customer wants to pay the premium charged to us.

I want to explain further why we use mounts with our swaps. The only RB swap we have had experience with so far is the RB20DET into S13 swap. I stand by the idea that this swap requires mounts, and for the following reasons (from our website).

From what we have seen, the R32 crossmembers do bolt in to S13s. We don't like doing this with our installs for many reasons.

1) Most importantly, with the R32 crossmember, the front sway bar doesn't fit without serious modifications to the oil pan. This (driving without a sway bar) is a safety concern to us, and safety of our customers is very important.

2) Placement of the engine with the stock crossmember puts the motor too far forward and too high. With the stock crossmember and intake manifold, the hood has to be modified and it is impossible to fit a front strut tower bar. The placement of the engine also makes it difficult to fit a set of fans on the back of the radiator for proper cooling, although a single fan can probably provide the needed cooling capacity. The shifter also sits too far forward.

3) With the stock intake manifold, like we said before, the hood needs to be cut and a strut tower bar doesn't fit. Also, intercooler piping routing is definitely not optimal with a front mount intercooler.

As far as S14s go, we have heard that the R33 crossmember bolts in, but we don't have personal experience so far with how that places the engine. We should know more by the end of March, 2003. Of course, this leaves out the option of using an RB20DET in an S14, since the RB20DET wasn't available in R33s, only R31s and R32s.

It also only gives the option of R32 RB25DETs into an S13. With our mounts, we can make any engine work in any car. Want an RB26DETT in an S12 200SX? We can do that! Want an AWD conversion? We can do that.

Thank you,

Dennis KalmanunStable Hybrids

d240t2 wrote:
It also only gives the option of R32 RB25DETs into an S13. With our mounts, we can make any engine work in any car. Want an RB26DETT in an S12 200SX? We can do that! Want an AWD conversion? We can do that.

Probably a typo... but R32's never came with RB25DET's... only DE's. I double checked myself at skylines downunder with this info:

The R32 Range - The 8th Skyline release Released Name Engine Power Trans CC Rating 1989/05 R32 GXi CA18i 91PS/5200rpm RWD 1809 1989/05 R32 GTE RB20E 97kw@5600rpm 172Nm@4400rpm RWD 1998 1989/05 R32 GTS RB20DE 116kw@6400rpm184Nm@5200rpm RWD 1998 1989/05 R32GTS-T(M) RB20DET 160kw@6400rpm 263Nm@3200rpm RWD 1998 1989/05 R32 GTS-4 RB20DET 160kw@6400rpm 263Nm@3200rpm 4 Wheel Drive 1998 1989/05 R32 GTS(S) RB20DE 116kw@6400rpm184Nm@5200rpm RWD 1998 1991/08 R32 GTS25 RB25DE 142kw@6400rpm 231Nm@4800rpm RWD 2498 1989/05 R32 GT-R RB26DETT 208kw@6800rpm 368Nm@4400rpm 4 Wheel Drive 2568

Just FYI...

As for the topic at hand... I am sure it is hard for both parties to be right and be wrong. Night does provide excellent prices and tech support, and has been an asset to this forum... while on the other hand Unstable has provided some ground braking for the RB swaps.

While I understand that it can hurt business to just hand out information... it has helped a lot with people like me who have already done the swap and are working out their own kinks.

I'd definitely say lets move on from this and get back to what we do best... putting these motors in and helping each other out! Personally, I think we all get the point there are some unresolved issues here... and it seems like the same things are being said over and over... so let's drop it here and lock this thread or vow not to discuss it anymore. Both sides have been expressed clearly... so there is nothing left to discuss, and outside parties can make their own decisions on the topic.

Regards,Sig

I just want to see a video or something that proves night's car can move from the one spot where all the pictures are taken. As in. it can drive around and actually runs.

d240t2 wrote:As far as S14s go, we have heard that the R33 crossmember bolts in, but we don't have personal experience so far with how that places the engine. We should know more by the end of March, 2003. Of course, this leaves out the option of using an RB20DET in an S14, since the RB20DET wasn't available in R33s, only R31s and R32s.

Why the end of March?

Tell me then...Night has an S13 with an RB25DET swap out of an R33. Are you saying that the R33 X-member doesn't fit the S13? Is Night lieing to all of us?

Imissmyturbo wrote:Tell me then...Night has an S13 with an RB25DET swap out of an R33. Are you saying that the R33 X-member doesn't fit the S13? Is Night lieing to all of us?

I didn't say any of that. Why are you trying to make it look like I am attacking him? All I am trying to do is defend myself against lies and misconceptions here. According to him, yes, the R33 crossmember does bolt in. I can't tell you what the fitment will be like, because we haven't done it. We have an R33 RB25DET coming in this month for an install...that is why we'll know more at the end of March.

I just have a hard time giving out information that I don't know to be a fact from first hand experience. See, to me, I could just repeat something that somebody else told me...but if I don't know it to be a fact, then that makes me look bad when it comes back that the info was incorrect. If someone gets a piece of information from me, they can be confident that it is correct and that I am speaking from first hand experience. When I speculate, I make it clear that I am speculating.

And I knew there weren't RB25DETs in R32s, that was a mistake caused by typing that in a rush, early in the morning.

Thanks,

Dennis KalmanunStable Hybrids

d240t2 wrote:I didn't say any of that. Why are you trying to make it look like I am attacking him? All I am trying to do is defend myself against lies and misconceptions here. According to him, yes, the R33 crossmember does bolt in. I can't tell you what the fitment will be like, because we haven't done it. We have an R33 RB25DET coming in this month for an install...that is why we'll know more at the end of March.

ennis KalmanunStable Hybrids

For Which Car?........Spare me the phone call.

AFAIK, we only have one current RB25DET order...and the engine should be here very soon. Was that the answer to your question?

Dennis

Sorry didn't mean to make it sound like an attack but since I already paid for the swap I get a little worried about info like this when I hear it.

Night has never really bashed UH here, he just said you guys charge high prices and claim you need parts that you don't. And while your list of pros for engine mounts does make some sense, they are NOT required, but your website says they ARE. Maybe you should clear that up on the website (they are recommended not required).

Quote »I am not the one here pointing out the wrong claims on your site.[/quote]I have yet to see somebody point out anything wrong that we said or did. All I have seen so far is a lot of misinformation.

Dennis KalmanunStable Hybrids

guys why dont all of you take a chill pill

any way going to check out an rb 25 in 180 tomorrow struck some issues fitting the rb 25 transmission seems the trans tunel needs some massageing I'll take pics cheers

meggala

Quote »The SHIFTER does not sit too far forward, it sits in stock location unless you are dealing with a S14. [/quote]im planning on doing the rb25 swap in my s14.... could some please clear this up for me?

d240t2 - You said that you would have prices on the install kit after your sat meeting...so what's deal? Got an install kit + price ready?

Aww man, sorry. I was so beat down from all the errands I ran on Saturday, that by the time I was out at UH, I didn't have energy to work on a bunch of stuff. I forgot altogether about the mount/install kit. I'll get back with Jason and we'll figure it all out, then post it on the website and I'll let you guys know it is up.

As far as the RB25DET into an S14, I can't say for sure where it'll mount with the stock crossmember, as we haven't done it yet. Nobody else on here has done it, as far as I know, so any info will be speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt (unless someone I don't know on here has done an RB25DET into an S14).

The RB20DET shifter will NOT sit in the middle of the shifter hole with stock mounts, it sits far forward and may require cutting of the shifter hole, depending on the shifter used, etc.

Dennis

rb swap done into an s14 using the r33 crossmember and r33 mounts.

rb25 transmission also used with yoke from a z32 on to the stock driveshaft modified to fit.

http://www.enjukuracing.com for more information.

mattback...

Quote »rb25 transmission also used with yoke from a z32 on to the stock driveshaft modified to fit.[/quote]

are you saying he used a z32 driveshaft?

lol

Why don't we all just give good pertinent information on doing the swap to help everyone out? Wouldn't that be in the best interests of anyone looking for information on the swap? All of this fighting about who said what is bad business for all. There are some things that should be said about everyone but make a separate post for it. This post originally was set out to give information on how to do this swap. I am not looking to argue with anyone either. As you can see, I don't post much on this or any other forum. But I think that we are setting a bad example for any new or potential nissan enthusiasts looking for some useful information about their car.

I agree, Ben. I've only tried to defend myself against false allegations and misinformation.

Dennis KalmanunStable Hybrids

I just finished reading all of this. *damn*

The problem is that there's obviously some tension between parties. This is clouding the judgement of both parties and clouding lots of perfectly useable info posted in these posts. I mean Night actually referred a manifold by UH which says he has good intentions for the RB community in NA and Europe. You guys could be called the pioneers of such a swap. It's imperative that you work together as a team regardless as to who wants business. The reason is because in the end this may cause a split in the community and in turn cause a split in the combined knowledge among users.

As for Mattback. I don't know you, but anyone like Dauntless who is willing to take on the responsibility of his own shop deserve more respect then calling him an online mechanic. He has proven in more then one way that he is knowledgeable and capable of anything you throw his way..

I have nothing but respect for those starting their own business, and as far as i know you don't own your shop at this point.

For those who call asskissing, many mods on this board know that i dont hold any mods in higher regards then those who simply participate in this board, i do believe i've had some interesting arguments with a few of them.

Relax guys it's not worth the stress...