All Electric Rogue/Dualis

[kerrton]

Building on the conversation in the 2012 Rogue speculation thread, there is a really cool program that Nissan is leading with electric vehicle and battery infrastructure development. Basically Nissan is a world leader in EV development, and they have a fleet of Rogue/Dualis pure electric vehicles in operation, here's the link:

http://www.betterplace.com/solution/

The unique thing about this concept is they're working on developing infrastructure for automated battery swapping for longer trips. The vehicle has a 160km range using Lithium Ion batteries, and if you need to go longer you pull over on the highway and the system automatically swaps in a freshly charged battery without you even having to leave the car. For those who are in Ontario Canada, the provincial government is offering massive incentives up to $10 grand for purchase of electric vehicles, and Nissan's "Better Place" program may take off in the near future. As Philip said in the 2012 Rogue thread, Nissan is investing HEAVILY (70% perating budget??) in cutting edge "green" technologies, specifically pure electric rather than hydrogren or hybrid like other companies. Here is a good related article on the Ontario situation:

http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2009/...-cars/

So like we said in the 2012 thread, it's unlikely that Nissan will pursue bigger engines for the Rogue in the future as this is old school "dinosaur" thinking, it's the type of thought that got GM, Ford and Chrysler into trouble, so Nissan is trying to predict where things are headed and move there before everyone else, rather than going to where things used to be. This is really cool and it makes me proud to drive a Nissan.

[philipa_240sx]

Wow, I totally missed that one.... and electric Rogue? Good find!

The Project Better Place eRogue is just a prototype/demonstration vehicle for now and has been touring the US in both San Francisco and Hawaii:


Image courtesy Project Better Place

More information here:http://www.betterplace.com/com...ogue/

Also pictured is a Nissan Dualis demonstrating a battery swap.

http://www.betterplace.com/com...-two/

Nissan will be showing a 'new electric vehicle' on August 2, 2009 at the opening of their new global headquarters in Yokohama, Japan. It will also be on display at this year's Tokyo Auto Salon.

[kerrton]

This is really cool, Nissan went out and basically created a completely unique concept with the goal of making electric vehicles feasible in the real world, with the development of the battery swap infrastructure. I would've thought something like this would be years in the future but Nissan has made it a reality with several work test sites.

And since Nissan bought the rights to use the Toyota hybrid system with the Altima hybrid, I'd say the odds are pretty good that the Rogue or maybe even the Murano will be available in a hybrid model in the next few years. Even the big trucks are a potential, although unlikely, as Chrysler and GM both have large SUV and trucks with hybrid systems.

[philipa_240sx]

And since Nissan bought the rights to use the Toyota hybrid system with the Altima hybrid, I'd say the odds are pretty good that the Rogue or maybe even the Murano will be available in a hybrid model in the next few years.

Actually, Nissan stated that they were working on their own 'in-house' hybrid system awhile back. It's supposedly going to debut in an Infiniti product in 2010. Carlos Ghosn (Nissan CEO), stated long ago that he felt hybrid technology was just a short term solution. The Toyota system is licensed... who knows for how long.

Nissan's real push has been zero emission technology: Pure electric using batteries or hydrogen fuel cells as a storage medium. However, there is a dark cloud above it that many refuse to acknowledge: The power source to charge the batteries must be clean as well to be truly zero emission. There is still alot of fossil fuel power generation throughout the world.

[Pescakl1]

I followed the news about the Ontario government initiatives and I applaud these brave initiatives while the federal government and others provinces go backwards like Quebec removing its hybrid tax deduction initiative (No point of saying we are the greener province in North America when our provincial government acts like that ).

But I have some doubts about the replacing batteries stations everywhere in the province: It will be quite expensive and won't bring enough flexibility to customers.

The way I see the future, we will have two types of cars (as we have several types of computers at home depending of our needs): Electric small cars for our daily commutes, shopping, and short trips. And hybrid cars (maybe with a rental type of use like communauto (fleet of cars to be used by people who pay a small fee and the fuel used)) for long trips and holidays.Do you see how many people drive minivans alone in it, but having to have this type of cars only for weekends and holidays?

Another point about the hybrid trucks and minivans: The problem right now with hybrid systems is that you are not allowed to tow anything with them (0 for the honda insight and either of the prius, 2 or 3).As long as manufacturers will have this limitation, they will not able to afford interesting hybrid systems for these types of car/trucks: When you buy a minivan or a truck, you expect to be able to tow at least 3500lbs.That is a shame because it is these types of vehicles who need the most the hybrid assistance to lower their fuel consumption.

[kerrton]

Interesting thoughts, I agree with most of what you've said. Regarding hybrids and towing, you can currently buy full size trucks and SUV's from Doge and GM that can low large amoutns, at least 5000 lbs anyway. I don't have the time to look up exactly what models and what they can tow but they do exist, however they don't use a CVT which one big limitation to towing in hybrids, and I'm sure there are other differences.

Your idea about using the right car for the application is the right kind of thinking, it's the cheapest way to increase efficiency TODAY without the need for expensive R&D and new technology. To take it step further, maybe it makes more sense to move away from personal vehicle ownership, but rather rent vehicles as you need them, and always choose the right vehicle for the activity of the day. None of these ideas are perfect, but with current technology and practical realities there are no perfect solutions.

Hopefully some big breakthroughs in battery technology will extend the range to the point where the Better Place battery swap sites aren't required, but we'll have to wait and see. In the mean time it's nice to see some solid leadership out of a company like Nissan, so at least there'll be more options for reducing our impacts.

[kerrton]

Not only is Nissan leading the charge into EV development including developing their own in-house hybrid system, they're now opening their own joint-venture lithium-ion battery production plant...

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2...tteri/

[philipa_240sx]

Yes, the new AESC plant in Japan is the first. Nissan/AESC will also be building a plant in the US using recently awarded grant money from the US gov't:

http://www.nissannews.com/news...mid=1

AESC was formed in 2007 and is a joint venture between Nissan and NEC:

http://www.nissan-global.com/E....html

[philipa_240sx]

Actually, Nissan stated that they were working on their own 'in-house' hybrid system awhile back. It's supposedly going to debut in an Infiniti product in 2010.

An article was published by Reuters recently regarding Nissan's in house hybrid technology:

By Yumiko Nis***ani

TOKYO, July 17 (Reuters) - Nissan Motor Co (7201.T) aims to develop its own hybrid technology for small and midsize cars and end its procurement of hybrid components from Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T), the Nikkei business daily reported on Friday.

Using the technology, Nissan aims to roll out a hybrid version of the Serena minivan, its best-selling minivan in Japan, in its home market in 2011, the newspaper said.

Nissan, Japan's third-largest carmaker, has said that it plans to begin selling a luxury car using its own hybrid system in 2010 but an expansion of its hybrid line-up would suggest a shift in strategy for the company, which has focused its efforts on pure electric cars. [ID:nT97678]

Japanese carmakers are under growing pressure to offer hybrid models as demand in Japan has jumped for gasoline-electric vehicles, which receive tax breaks and subsidies under a government initiative to promote cleaner cars.

"The plan underscores the increasingly difficult outlook for relying on electric cars as mainstay products so soon," said Yoshihiko Tabei, an analyst at Kazaka Securities. "Nissan's long-term focus will probably remain on electric cars, but it needs hybrid cars as bridge products for the next decade or so."

Nissan spokeswoman Yuko Sasaki said that while the automaker is considering various options regarding the use of hybrid technology, it has not decided on anything beyond the launch of the luxury vehicle next year.

Nissan, in which France's Renault SA (RENA.PA) holds a 44 percent stake, has set a goal of becoming the leader in the zero-emissions vehicle market. It plans to begin selling electric cars in the United States and Japan in 2010, followed by a global roll-out in 2012.

It sold its first-ever hybrid, the Tino hybrid compact, in 2000 in Japan, but has mostly stayed out of the hybrid market since then. Its only hybrid model now is the Altima, for which it procures core components from Toyota and which is available only in the United States.

"Nissan probably expects difficulty in improving profitability on electric vehicles with today's technology and with cost cuts mostly in the hands of motor and battery makers, while it probably has gained expertise on hybrid technology by using Toyota's hybrid components," Tabei said.

Shares of Nissan gained 2.5 percent to 569 yen on Friday, outperforming the broader auto sector, which finished flat.

FOR LONGER-TERM GAIN

UBS Securities analyst Tetsuo Yoshida said Nissan should be able to achieve profitability on hybrid cars faster than Toyota or Honda Motor Co (7267.T) did, because the technology is already available.

But making a full-fledged entry into the market years after its two bigger rivals would put Nissan at a disadvantage in terms of sales competition, he said.

"It probably would not even dare to think of competing with Toyota or Honda on sales. Its purpose is probably only to have mass-selling products that can meet tougher emissions regulations such as those in California," he said.

Hybrid cars have been in the spotlight in recent months in Japan thanks to strong sales of Toyota's fully remodelled Prius and Honda's new Insight, both with significantly lowered price tags, as well as government subsidies for low-emissions vehicles.

Honda's new Insight became the first hybrid to top the monthly ranking of best-selling cars in Japan in April, while Toyota's third-generation Prius, which debuted three months after the Insight, was No.1 in May. [ID:nT316781]

Analysts said Nissan's adopting its own hybrid technology instead of buying components from Toyota would not give it much cost advantage but would help it cultivate its technological development as well as secure a stable supply.

"Developing on its own will help Nissan build its technology and data, which will be key to enhancing electric cars in the future. There is also some risk in keeping the supply of core components in the hands of a competitor," Kazaka's Tabei said. (Additional reporting by Nathan Layne; Editing by Chris Gallagher)

[kerrton]

I'm really interterested in the lack of interest for this thread. For me, this is one of the most exciting topics on this forum. If, for example, I would've posted a topic along the lines of "Rogue to get huge 3.5 liter engine upgrade for 2010", I'm sure we'd have had 30 posts by now of really enthusiastic people getting all excited about this news. I on the other hand would've been disappointed as this goes against the spirit of the Rogue.

I'm not being critical of anyone, this is ok and this forum is about having fun, so I'm not putting anyone down, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't seem like many people are truly interested in alternative powertrains that will certainly dominate at some point in the future. But without public interest and enthusiasm, these powertrains haven't become mainstream yet and I would guess it'll be a long time before they do. If, on the other hand, this thread had a huge reaction with everyone SCREAMING and DEMANDING that this new powertrain be sold to the masses, as well as small clean diesels and hybrids, the car manufacturers would undoubtedly make this a reality. The current vehicle options are based on our demands, and we haven't demanded anything revolutionary like Nissan's EV, so it hasn't become a reality. These things will eventually happen but for now it seems we're getting what we want from the car makers - just an observation of reality I guess.

[ahhbeebee]

While I agree this is an interesting development, I have to disagree that lack of interest in this thread means people aren't interested in low emissions products.

I think the majority of us here had fuel efficiency high on the radar when selecting the Rogue.

I think the problem extends beyond this forum and Pescakl1 hits the nail on the head. People have to starting using the appropriate vehicle for the job. I forsee this change happening in the near future. All its going to take is a micro-car (sub $10k) powered by hybrid, clean diesel, or electric source. For us in cities, that's all we'd ever need most of the time.

Cleaner cars already exist, so we need to paint ourselves with the same brush - we all certainly could have gotten lower emission vehicles.

[kerrton]

Good points, this is the kind of discussion I was hoping this thread would generate!

[ahhbeebee]

Honestly,

although I love my Rogue, I'm not sure if I'd get it if there were alternative low/no-emissions options.

I personally do hope these vehicles make their way to the market soon - I was pretty close to buying the Prius at the time I got my Rogue, and now that the sticker price has come down, if I were to do it again, it would be high on the list. I did consider the Altima hybrid.

I don't know much about electric vehicles, but for the present, I think it'd be wonderful if clean diesel technology was more prevalent. They do in Europe, and the samples we have here in NA are torquey (fun to drive), and in many instances, outsave hybrids (fuel economy-wise).

[philipa_240sx]

Battery production starts in Japan:

July 16, 2009

Automotive Energy Supply CorporationNissan Motor Co., Ltd.NEC CorporationNEC TOKIN CorporationAUTOMOTIVE ENERGY SUPPLY CORPORATION BEGINS TRIALPRODUCTION OF LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES

TOKYO (July 16, 2009) - Nissan Motor Co., Ltd., NEC Corporation, and its subsidiary NEC TOKIN Corporation, today announced that its joint-venture company - Automotive Energy Supply Corporation (AESC) - has begun trial production of advanced lithium-ion batteries for a wide range of automotive applications at its Zama Operations Center.

With start-up capacity at 13,000 units/year, AESC will gradually ramp up production to 65,000 units/year by 2010.

Having twice the energy density of conventional nickel-hydride batteries, AESC's lithium-ion batteries employ a compact module comprised of laminated-type cells, that contribute to more efficient packaging. The use of manganese-type electrode offers thermal stability and the laminated structure improves cooling, thus contributing to the battery's safety performance. The battery has undergone extreme durability tests demonstrating average runs of more than 100,000 km(*) in field tests.

AESC will produce the lithium-ion batteries for Nissan's electric vehicle to be introduced in the U.S. and Japan, as well as Nissan's original hybrid vehicle, in 2010.

AESC intends to mass produce and market its batteries to any interested automaker, with an aim to become a global leader of advanced battery products and services.

(*) Based on tests conducted on Nissan's hybrid vehicle.

[Pescakl1]

Here is the first all electric Nissan car: The Leaf... looks like a Versa.Sounds good as a second car... except the price: about US$ 25-30.000.

There are a lot of articles on it but this one seems the best informed (a lot of videos of the car).

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/0...u-s-b/

[philipa_240sx]

Yes, the new Nissan 'Leaf' was just unveiled at the opening of Nissan's new world headquarters in Yokohama, Japan.

Here is the complete press release:

And the direct link to the article including photos:

http://www.nissannews.com/news...mid=1

And Nissan's Zero Emission Website:

http://www.nissan-zeroemission.com/

08.02.2009 , YOKOHAMANISSAN UNVEILS “LEAF” – THE WORLD’S FIRST ELECTRIC CAR DESIGNED FOR AFFORDABILITY AND REAL-WORLD REQUIREMENTSEvent ushers in a new era for Nissan and a new era for mobility

Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. today unveiled Nissan LEAF, the world’s first affordable, zero-emission car. Designed specifically for a lithium-ion battery-powered chassis, Nissan LEAF is a medium-size hatchback that comfortably seats five adults and has a range of more than 160km (100 miles) to satisfy real-world consumer requirements.

NISSAN LEAFSlated for launch in late 2010 in Japan, the United States, and Europe, Nissan LEAF ushers in a new era of mobility – the zero-emission era. The car is the embodiment of Nissan’s radical, transformative vision for the future and the culmination of decades of investment and research.

“Nissan LEAF is a tremendous accomplishment – one in which all Nissan employees can take great pride,” said Nissan President and CEO Carlos Ghosn. “We have been working tirelessly to make this day a reality – the unveiling of a real-world car that has zero – not simply reduced – emissions. It’s the first step in what is sure to be an exciting journey – for people all over the world, for Nissan and for the industry.”

Key characteristics of the LEAF include:

1. Zero-emission power train and platform 2. Affordable pricing 3. Distinctive design 4. Real-world range autonomy – 160km (100 miles) 5. Connected Mobility: Advanced intelligent transportation (IT) system

The “LEAF” name is a significant statement about the car itself. Just as leaves purify the air in nature, so Nissan LEAF purifies mobility by taking emissions out of the driving experience. Pricing details will be announced closer to start of sales in late 2010; however, the company expects the car to be competitively priced in the range of a well-equipped C-segment vehicle. Additionally, Nissan LEAF is expected to qualify for an array of significant local, regional and national tax breaks and incentives in markets around the world. As an added benefit, because the vehicle has less mechanical complexity than a traditional gasoline-powered car, Nissan LEAF is designed to be friendly to the wallet as well as to the environment.

ZERO-EMISSION MOBILITYNissan LEAF is powered by laminated compact lithium-ion batteries, which generate power output of over 90kW, while its electric motor delivers 80kW/280Nm. This ensures a highly responsive, fun-to-drive experience that is in keeping with what consumers have come to expect from traditional, gasoline-powered automobiles.

Unlike internal-combustion engine (ICE) equipped vehicles, Nissan LEAF’s power train has no tail pipe, and thus no emission of CO2 or other greenhouse gases. A combination of Nissan LEAF’s regenerative braking system and innovative lithium-ion battery packs enables the car to deliver a driving range of more than 160km (100 miles) on one full charge*. (*US LA4 mode)

Extensive consumer research demonstrates that this range satisfies the daily driving requirements of more than 70% of the world’s consumers who drive cars.

And, Nissan’s approach makes charging easy and convenient. Nissan LEAF can be charged up to 80% of its full capacity in just under 30 minutes with a quick charger. Charging at home through a 200V outlet is estimated to take approximately eight hours – ample time to enable an overnight refresh for consumer and car alike.

REAL-WORLD CARThe engineers and designers behind Nissan LEAF worked to create a competitively priced real-world car that would enable Nissan to lead mobility into the zero-emission era. To ensure comfort, spaciousness and cargo capacity, Nissan LEAF employs a completely new chassis and body layout.

”Our car had to be the world’s first, medium-size, practical EV that motorists could afford and would want to use every day. And that’s what we’ve created. The styling will identify not only Nissan LEAF but also the owner as a participant in the new era of zero-emission mobility,” said Masato INOUE, Product Chief Designer.

DISTINCTIVE DESIGNEven the smallest details can yield tremendous effect.

Nissan LEAF’s frontal styling is characterized by a sharp, upright V-shaped design featuring long, up-slanting light-emitting diode (LED) headlights that employ a blue internal reflective design that announces, “This car is special.” But the headlights do more than make a statement. They are also designed to cleverly split and redirect airflow away from the door mirrors, thus reducing wind noise and drag. And, the headlights provide yet one more benefit in that they consume about 50 percent of the electricity of conventional lamps, which helps Nissan LEAF to achieve its world-class range autonomy.

Through bright trim colors inside, Nissan LEAF creates a pleasing and stylish cabin environment. An environmentally friendly “blue earth” color theme originates from the Aqua Globe body color of Nissan LEAF’s introductory model. This theme is carried into the interior through blue dashboard highlights and instrument illumination.

CONNECTED MOBILITY IT SYSTEMNissan LEAF employs an exclusive advanced IT system. Connected to a global data center, the system can provide support, information, and entertainment for drivers 24 hours a day.

The dash-mounted monitor displays Nissan LEAF’s remaining power – or “reachable area” – in addition to showing a selection of nearby charging stations.

Another state-of-the-art feature is the ability to use mobile phones to turn on air-conditioning and set charging functions – even when Nissan LEAF is powered down. An on-board remote-controlled timer can also be pre-programmed to recharge batteries.

“The IT system is a critical advantage,” says Tooru ABE, Chief Product Specialist. “We wanted this vehicle to be a partner for the driver and an enhancement for the passengers. We also wanted this vehicle to help create a zero-emission community, and these IT features will help make that possible.”

HOLISTIC APPROACH TO ZERO-EMISSION MOBILITY AND ECO-FRIENDLY INNOVATIONNissan LEAF is a critical first step in establishing the era of zero-emission mobility; however, Nissan recognizes that internal-combustion engine (ICE) technologies will play a vital role in global transportation for decades to come. Because of this, Nissan is implementing its zero-emission vision through a holistic approach, which provides consumers a comprehensive range of eco-friendly technologies from which to choose.

For some consumers, Nissan LEAF will be the perfect match, and the only car they will ever need. For others, Nissan LEAF will be a logical addition to the family fleet – the optimal choice for the daily commute, for example.

While zero-emission is the ultimate goal, the company is committed to ongoing innovation in eco-friendly technologies that increase efficiency and reduce emissions. As a result, Nissan offers a comprehensive suite of automotive technologies, including CVT, Idle Stop, HEV, Clean Diesel, and ongoing research and investment in FCV technology.

WORLDWIDE PARTNERSZero-emission mobility programs under the banner of the Renault-Nissan Alliance include partnerships with countries such as the UK and Portugal, local governments in the Japan and the USA, and other sectors, for a total of nearly 30 partnerships worldwide.

In these partnerships major efforts focus on three areas:

1. Development of a comprehensive charging infrastructure through public and private investment, 2. Incentives and subsidies from local, regional, and national governments, and 3. Public education on the individual and societal benefits of zero-emissions mobility.

ZERO-EMISSION VEHICLE PRODUCTIONNissan LEAF is the first in the company’s forthcoming line of EVs and is a major milestone in the realization of the Renault-Nissan Alliance’s vision for zero-emission mobility. The first of Nissan’s EV’s will be manufactured at Oppama, Japan, with additional capacity planned for Smyrna, Tennessee, USA. Meanwhile, lithium-ion batteries are being produced in Zama, Japan, with additional capacity planned for the USA, the UK and Portugal, and other sites for investment are under study around the world.

[kerrton]

The European version of the Rogue is heading in an interesting direction for 2010, which is incredible to me as it's "here and now". See this link.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009...id-in/

[philipa_240sx]

Nissan developed their e4WD system over the past several years:

http://www.nissan-global.com/E...E-4WD/

IIRC it's been available on the Nissan Tiida overseas for a few years now (2005?). If you read the article above, you'll see it's not a Hybrid. It's a simple generator attached to the engine that powers an electric motor at the rear wheels.

IMHO, the e-4WD system was designed to meet packaging considerations on small vehicles. It's not particularly efficient as there are considerable losses... mainly in the form of heat. A traditional mechanical linkage with a drive shaft as in the Rogue is far more efficient... likely over 90%.

The interesting part of this technology is how it could be adapted to a hybrid drive train. By adding a battery you could turn it into a parallel hybrid system without changing the engine & transmission configuration. Although Nissan has not demonstrated this feature, it certainly could be possible.

As for the article Kerrton posted... it's purely speculative. Nissan will be tight lipped about a future Qashqai and Rogue as they always are with new vehicles. It's anybody's guess right now what they will look like. I would however keep a close on the Qashqai in the UK as a new model is likely to show up there first.

[crayb]

While I'm a big advocate for saving our earth, the technology is not there yet. We have to have practical solutions to our transportation needs. We've had battery powered items for years and now the majority of tools are electric powered (plug in), lawn mowers and lawn tools are gasoline powered, despite the availibility of battery powered models. Most of the golf carts in the course near me actually use gasoline/ diesel. No matter the consequence, we as human's are going to take the easiest route.

Many manufacturers are bringing products to market, and some of them are very good. Their long-term dependability is very much in question though. How will there quality be? We know very little about the risks involved should a crash occur. How will the battery packs stand up, will they leak over time, will the electrics interfer causing untoward medical problems?

Batteries currently FLOOD our landfills. Most people don't recycle spent batteries. This will affect us much greater in the future when all the chemicals leach out into our groundwater.

My area is rural and it's very unlikely a battery swapping station would ever be located near me. Our infrastructure already exists with gas stations in place, for the charging points or battery swapping stations to catch up with today's needs we'll be looking way past all our lifetimes.

A much better and easier solution to the world's dependence on fossil fuels is to make automobiles with greater fuel effiency. What has worked for us the past 100+ years is still working today, we just have overpopulation, too many automobiles on the roads, companies polluting our air, and a society that only cares about this very second.

I'm excited about all new technology, but until it can give me what I need as effciently as possible, and make a large impact on saving the planet, I'll eagerly wait for the future to find me.

Ray

[philipa_240sx]

Although I realize it's hard to live without modern conveniences, I try to make eco-friendly choices where possible. For example:

- I have a fairly small yard with about 3500 sq.ft of lawn. I use an simple push type reel mower. No gas, no oil, just human power. I have to admit it doesn't take much more effort than a push type gas mower... and I get to burn off the calories from the beer I just drank!

- I normally shovel snow when possible, however I also own a compact 5hp Honda snowblower. I typically use less than 6 gallons (32l) of fuel per winter... and I clean the equivalent of a 4 car driveway. This is much less than some of the big 2 stage machines I've seen/used.

- My A/C is typically set at 80F (26.5C). Just enough to be comfortable. I also use a programmable thermostat.

My car is unfortunately one area where it's hard to compromise. I chose the Rogue because it met my needs for a multipurpose utility vehicle. Yet it gives much better gas mileage than the mid sized SUV's and pickup trucks used by others in my field of work. The fact I drive mainly rural roads at speeds of 50mph or less boosts my fuel economy to 30 mpg and higher. I do however drive in excess of 30,000mi per year.

Just remember: Every little bit counts.

[philipa_240sx]

Just a note about the battery used in the Nissan Leaf EV an other Hybrids:

These batteries are designed to last a very long time. You won't exactly be chucking a 300+ lb battery into the landfill either. Nissan is planning a leasing program for their batteries. If it does wear out, you will likely swap it out at the dealer and the old one will be reclaimed and recycled.

Now if we could just eliminate the thousands of disposable alkaline batteries from going to landfills!

[Pescakl1]

Many manufacturers are bringing products to market, and some of them are very good. Their long-term dependability is very much in question though. How will there quality be? We know very little about the risks involved should a crash occur. How will the battery packs stand up, will they leak over time, will the electrics interfer causing untoward medical problems?

Batteries currently FLOOD our landfills. Most people don't recycle spent batteries. This will affect us much greater in the future when all the chemicals leach out into our groundwater.

Do you have the same concern when you buy the newest cell phone?Most people don't.They complain about it on cars because they don't like the inconveniences coming with it, but strangely, batteries are more dangerous in a cell phone than in a car, and they are not that concerned.

We cannot live anymore on fossil fuels. In a bit more than a century, we would have used what all the planet took millions of years to make. We have about 50 years of fossil fuels left. If we take care of this reserve, we may last a century, no more.At the end, only special types of transportation (probably aircrafts) will still use it, just for a few that can afford it, everything else will be moved by something else than fuel.

But you are right, you don't have to care that much for now. But your children will have to, they won't have your choices, so enjoy while you can.

About the technology on the future Rogue as on the Peugeot 3008, it is really not that impressive and the efficiency is poor (remember the first GM "hybrids"?).The gain in fuel economy will be close to insignificant (close to what the Honda Insight delivers) but it is a good marketing gimmick, and some will fall for it.For now, the only good one is the Prius, but the best technological choice will be something like the Volt (using the thermal engine just to recharge a more efficient battery) for long travel, pure electric cars, like the Leaf, for commutes.

Electric engines technology seems to be ready (maybe improve the towing capacity), just the battery technology is not great yet but a lot of different chemical technologies are tested right now and some are really impressive (no loss of capacity even at -40 degrees for example).

[crayb]

I'm very concerned about the future of our children and our planet. I purchase renewable items and do what I can to save the waste of throw away items. I purchased an i-Phone b/c Apple has to change the battery out, no contact with me or a landfill, when the battery has to be changed they recycle it.

I am a manical recycler, plastic, paper, cardboard, aluminum, glass...EVERYTHING they will take from my curb. I only purchase small, smaller cars despite the fact that I am surrounded by large trucks and SUV's (my G35 is a splurge I know, but it's only driven every blue moon).

I would hope that some type of auto would be made widely available that doesn't rely on fossil fuel, but we are a "path of least resistance society".

Ray

[philipa_240sx]

Some background information on the history of Nissan EV's:

Nissan's Pursuit for Zero Emission Mobility:The Unplugged Story- From Tama to Pivo2, A Look Back at 60 years of Nissan's EV Development -

The Dawn of the EV Age"His other concern was the batteries themselves. Thorne had selected the new lithium-ion batteries from Nissan, which were extremely efficient on a weight basis."

The above quote could easily be from a government official at a pitch for a future fleet of zero emission vehicles. In reality, the source is a scene from Michael Crichton's 1995 novel - and later blockbuster movie - The Lost World.

Nearly 15 years later, Nissan is still an industry leader in lithium-ion battery development. However, the real story of Nissan's history of Electric Vehicles starts much earlier, though not quite in the Jurassic era, in 1947. It was a unique period in the auto industry and the development of electric vehicles. Due to the post-World War II energy shortage at that time, the Japanese government encouraged entrepreneurs to produce EVs to cope with the crisis.

Tama Electric Car (1947)



"Tama Electric Car" was created by Tokyo Electric Cars Company - one of the ancestors of Prince Motor Co., Ltd., which later merged with Nissan. Developed by military aviation engineers who lost their jobs at the end of the war, the Tama utilized replaceable lead-acid batteries and generated 3.3kW power and a top speed of 35 km/h (22 mph). With a cruising range of 65 km (40 miles), they were used mainly as taxis. A compact pickup version was available as well.

Legend has it that the Tama marked a maximum speed of 35.2km/h (22 mph) and cruised for 96 km (60 miles), far better than the brochure specifications, in a Ministry-conducted test. The car was sold until 1950, when Japan's post-war recovery was well underway and oil supplies were stabilized.

Li-ion on the Prairie (1995)

Today, with oil futures again uncertain and the eco-system under stress, it goes without saying that the evolution of battery technology corresponds with social need and an entrepreneurial spirit - both driving forces behind the development of Nissan EVs. The lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries had been developed in 1990 by Sony Corporation. Just a day after Sony's official announcement, Nissan began to study the automotive application, and later in 1992 started collaboration with the company.

The first fruit of their efforts was in 1995, when Nissan launched the "Prairie EV," the world's first electric car with Li-ion battery power. Although the Prairie EV was limited to fleet sales, around 30 units were sold to various entities.

"The majority of the industry, even our colleagues, were skeptical about the Li-ion system," recalls Hideaki Horie, Expert Leader at EV Technology Development Division. "We chose the Li-ion battery because we believed in its potential and possible applications for vehicles, much higher than the nickel hydride batteries that were common at that time."



EV on Ice (2000)

One of the most unusual applications of the Prairie EV was the years it spent under extreme polar conditions as a support vehicle for the Japanese National North Pole Exploratory Team. In 2000, when the Prairie EV was undergoing cold weather testing at Nissan's Hokkaido Proving Ground, the owner of the inn where the evaluation group was staying told them that the International Arctic Research team was looking for an EV to use at their research station in Ny-Alesund, Svalbard, Norway - which at 79°N is the world's most Northerly settlement.

Nissan engineers thought it would be a great opportunity for an extended extreme cold test - which they themselves could monitor from warmer locations. It was arranged to loan the arctic researchers a Prairie EV fitted with a cylindrical Li-Ion battery. The Prairie EV, with no Nissan support or maintenance, served as the daily transportation from the base research station to the town and airport and, most importantly, while conducting meteorological observations. Zero emissions vehicles are critical for such use in order to not contaminate the research data with CO2 emissions.

"The Nissan EV became a symbol of our pledge at the International Arctic Research Village that the environment would not be damaged by the execution of research activities," recalls Dr. Hajime Ito, Chair NySMAC. "VIPs visiting our village were welcomed at the airstrip by the Prairie EV, which transported them to town without the slightest noise or exhaust gas. It was also an excellent vehicle for scientific purposes, such as the observation of wild animals, which you could approach without sound or smell."

In 2006, after six flawless years of service, the Prairie EV stopped running. Since Ny-Alesund, with a permanent population of just 35 residents, lacked a Nissan dealership, the vehicle was returned to Nissan for investigation and evaluation. When the car was examined, Nissan engineers were delighted to find that the problem was simply a disconnected condenser. Once repaired, the Prairie EV started right up (though cell performance had degenerated slightly but within projections), proving the feasibility and durability of the Li-Ion battery under extreme conditions.

LA Story - Altra EV (1997)

In 1997, two years after the introduction of the Prairie EV, Nissan revealed the lithium-ion battery equipped Altra EV (called the R'nessa EV in Japan). This award-winning electric minivan (honored as one of the "greenest cars" by Green Guide to Cars and Trucks in 1999) was sold both in Japan and the United States, though only an estimated 200 units were produced.

The initial units were delivered to utility companies, including Southern California Edison Company, Pacific Gas and Electric Company, and the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. They were even used as "meter maid cars" (parking enforcement vehicles) by the Santa Monica Police Department. For a brief period, you could also rent an Altra EV at the Los Angeles International Airport.

Part minivan, part SUV, part station wagon, the Altra EV had a relatively long wheelbase of 2,799 mm (110.2 inches) and 4,869 mm (191.7 inches) length - nearly identical to the 2010 Nissan Maxima's 2,776 mm (109.3 inches) wheelbase and 4,841 mm (190.6 inches) length.

Charging was by a proven, safe, user-friendly inductive battery charging system through an electromagnetic paddle inserted into a charge port located in the front grille. The 83-horsepower (62 kW) synchronous motor utilized a high-performance Neodymium-Iron-Born alloy internal magnet rated at an approximately 89 percent operating efficiency. The Altra EV's 12-module Li-Ion battery pack was located under the passenger compartment floor and offered a "real world" driving range (combined city/highway) of 130 km (80 miles). It also offered a 4-wheel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), regenerative braking, a 120 km/h (75 mph) top speed and an 800-pound passenger/cargo capacity. Altra EV drivers were treated to amenities such as air conditioning, power windows and door locks, a premium audio system and dual supplemental air bags.



Electric Movie Star - Hypermini (2009)

Shortly after the introduction of the Altra EV, Nissan challenged itself to develop a more compact and less utilitarian dedicated EV. The result was the legendary Hypermini, which debuted in 1999.

Hypermini featured a lightweight, highly rigid aluminum space-frame and was fitted with a neodymium magnet synchronous traction motor and high performance lithium-ion batteries. It took about four hours to recharge the batteries using a 200-volt non-contact inductive AC charger. Hypermini's driving range was 115 km (72 miles) on a single battery charge and it had a top speed of about 100 km/h (62 mph). The car was widely used in Japan and U.S., including at the University of California, Davis and a car-sharing project in Yokohama.

At just 2655 mm (8.3 feet) in length and 1550 mm (5 feet) tall, the dramatically styled two-seat Hypermini garnered attention wherever it went. It even appeared in two U.S.-produced movies, The Princess Diaries 2 and Sleepover, and a Japanese TV animation series, Shigofumi.



Fully Charged for the Future - Li-ion batteries

The turn of the century was a turning point for battery systems as well. Nissan took a major step forward and started developing compact laminated Li-ion batteries together with NEC, replacing the cylindrical cell used up until then. The newly developed laminated batteries are able to store double the energy in the same size. In other words, same amount of energy packed in the curry sauce, instead of a magnum bottle of champagne.

The evolution of battery development has accelerated in the last decade thanks in large part to innovations in home and personal electronics, especially cellular phones.

"We can even say that battery innovation owes a debt to the high school girls in the streets of Shibuya, who are extremely demanding, heavy cell phone users," said Horie. "They are eager to have more chat, more emails, in less charging time. The boom of cell phones definitely accelerated the enhancement of battery technologies."??????

The impact of the ongoing reduction of batteries size has been felt not only in cell phones and computers, but also in designing cars.

Pivo (2005) and Pivo2 (2007)

"You'll be unleashed from various constraints if you choose an electric powertrain," said Shiro Nakamura, senior vice president, Design, Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. "For example, it allows you to make the hood very low, contributing to the vehicle's aerodynamics and style. You can make the center of gravity very low by putting the battery under the floor, or you can even place the motor in the wheel. And ultimately, you can separate the cabin and the platform - thanks to the x-by-wire technology. We wanted to show examples of this freedom of design and mobility for the future with the Pivo and the Pivo2. These concepts feature rotating cabins and the ability to make the four wheels move individually."

The original Pivo was one of the stars of the 2005 Tokyo Motor Show, a feat followed by the next generation Pivo2 two years later. Continuing Nissan's tradition of exhibiting advanced EV concepts to the world's top motor shows, the Nissan Mixim electric sports car debuted at the 2007 Frankfurt Motor Show, followed by the Nissan NUVU (literally a "new view" of the urban transportation vehicle) at the 2008 Paris Motor Show. NUVU incorporates a witty representation of Nissan's green credentials, including solar panels across its all-glass roof and the use of organic and recycled materials within the cabin.




Looking ahead after more than 60 years of EV leadership, the year 2010 will mark the transition from of the era of conventional mobility to true zero-emission mobility, led by the introduction of the next generation Nissan EV.

Cars like the Nissan EV will take us another critical step closer to the day when Nissan lithium-ion battery-powered vehicles will drive cleanly and efficiently through urban amusement parks filled with Raptors and T-rex clones - and not just in novels and movies.

And, where the real dinosaurs on display may just be internal combustion vehicles

Quoted from Nissan Motor Corp. The full article with photos can be found here:

http://www.nissan-global.com/E....html

[kerrton]

An update on the current status of Nissan and electric vehicles (EV):

http://www.nebusiness.co.uk/bu...03808/

It seems Nissan is really convinced that EV's will be their road to the top, or at the very least the road to staying competitive. I really give them credit for putting words into action, and much earlier than anyone would've guessed. I still think the Nissan Leaf is absolutely amazing, given the huge financial hurdles, and the Better Place program is really impressive too.

Who knows if it'll be successful long-term, but you have to give them credit for finding something to be passionate about, and having the conviction to pursue it agressively.

[pawprint]

The picture of the White Rogue is too big and it’s hard to read this thread!

Anyway, I am very interested in the battery technology and have been following the Nissan LEAF.

I also believe it would be a great “second” car because of its current limitations. It can only go 100 miles without a charge. Which, for normal use is great, but not for a trip… So they are building re-powering sites, however it takes 28 minutes to recharge the battery to 100%. I’m sure within the next 5 – 10 years these numbers will get better and be able to replicate what we’re used to with gasoline.

What I am most curious about is the battery technology in cold, frigid weather. How many electric vehicles are driving around Yellowknife, NWT Canada in January? The Rogue pictured above is in warm San Francisco and Hawaii.

If they worked better in cold weather, I would buy an electric Rogue, Juke or LEAF, but anything larger will be too heavy and defeat the purpose people buy or need something large.

[philipa_240sx]

What I am most curious about is the battery technology in cold, frigid weather. How many electric vehicles are driving around Yellowknife, NWT Canada in January? The Rogue pictured above is in warm San Francisco and Hawaii.

Actually, if you read a few posts up Nissan did do some cold weather testing with the all electric Prairie EV. It was stationed at International Arctic Research team in Ny-Alesund, Svalbard, Norway. At 79°N latitude, it's the world's most Northerly settlement. The Prairie spent 6 years in the frigid arctic. It eventually stopped working due to a minor electrical problem. The vehicle was sent back to Nissan where it was repaired and continued to operate.

[philipa_240sx]

The really interesting feature of the LEAF is the batteries. Nissan is working on a leasing program to help finance the costs as the battery is the single most expensive component. The battery is removable and as the technology progresses, I am sure Nissan will offer battery 'upgrades'. They have also shown an automated battery swap system that could swap in a fully charged replacement just as quickly as filling up a gasoline car.

Many great things to come!

[Pescakl1]

The really interesting feature of the LEAF is the batteries. Nissan is working on a leasing program to help finance the costs as the battery is the single most expensive component. The battery is removable and as the technology progresses, I am sure Nissan will offer battery 'upgrades'. They have also shown an automated battery swap system that could swap in a fully charged replacement just as quickly as filling up a gasoline car.

Many great things to come!

That is the great thing/innovation with the Leaf: To stay at the top and for the buyers to not regret the investment (think computers, digital camera), the fact to have the last battery technology for your car is the best idea they had .

As for the battery swap on the road when you do a trip, I am with Pawprint on this one, I can only see the Leaf as a second car, a commuter car.

At the end of 2012 when the lease of my wife's van ends, that is my first choice for now, it is the benchmark (My wife will take over the Rogue).

As for the cold, a new battery technology is already there, called LMP (Lithium Metal Polymer), developed for the Bollore BlueCar. Instead of keeping the battery below 60C to avoid overheating (but losing capacity in the cold, the LMP battery needs to work between 60 and 80C which is easier to achieve when you put the battery in a enclosed packaging with some resistance for cold mornings. I talked with a Bollore Engineer for half a hour at the last Montreal car show and it looks really promising. Their only problem right now is to go from the prototyping phase to the production phase as tolerance between the layers for the battery are minimal for now.

[pawprint]

Maybe things are different in Canada, but electric, fuel cell and new hybrid technology are not introduced in our heavy winter locations. Quite the opposite.

Nissan LEAF- “According to Perry, the company's goal is to have 10 to 15 charging partners -- either states or cities -- in the U.S. when the Leaf first becomes available in late 2010 (it will simultaneously go on sale in Europe and Japan). Oregon and Tennessee are on board, as are such cities as San Diego, Raleigh, San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Seattle and both Phoenix and Tucson in Arizona.”

Most everyone agrees that cold weather will not affect the LEAF, however in 15 degree weather, running the xenon headlights, defroster, wipers (front & rear), heater, heated side mirrors & seats, and Sat/NAV running all the time will drain the battery quickly. A normal 15 minute drive can easily turn into 1 hour on snow & ice.

Admittedly, cars have more of a work out in cold climates.

Pawprint

http://www.thedailygreen.com/l...oA1NZ
Modified by pawprint at 1:08 PM 2/11/2010