Wondering if you guys can give me some tips on my alignment specs.
1991 CoupeJust got an alignment from Firestone after installation of Tokico GF springs (appox 1.3" drop) Kyb AGX, projectnissan adj. tension rods, new ball joints and new tie rod ends...Here are the final specs:
Left FrontCamber -1.40Caster 6.80Toe 0.09
Right FrontCamber -1.60Caster 7.40Toe 0.07
Left RearCamber -1.80Toe 0.16
Right RearCamber -1.40Toe 0.13
Is that too much neg camber in the rear? I got a lifetime alignment deal so I want to go back and make any adjustments neccessary...This is my daily driver...
Alignment specs
Camber specs for front and rear are as follows per the FSM...
Front -1°30' to 0°
Rear -1°36' to -0°36'
Chet or someone else much more knowledgable than myself can probably give you a better answer, but I think Firestone should be able to do better than they have.
I was always under the impression that camber can be adjusted to within spec using the stock equipment as long as the lowering springs used were pretty mild. I would think that a 1.3" drop wouldn't be a problem.
Like I said, some of the other guys on here can give you a much better answer than I can.
Front -1°30' to 0°
Rear -1°36' to -0°36'
Chet or someone else much more knowledgable than myself can probably give you a better answer, but I think Firestone should be able to do better than they have.
I was always under the impression that camber can be adjusted to within spec using the stock equipment as long as the lowering springs used were pretty mild. I would think that a 1.3" drop wouldn't be a problem.
Like I said, some of the other guys on here can give you a much better answer than I can.
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Nismo_Freak
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Nismo_Freak
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Exar-Kun wrote:I think they should have adjusted your caster, you got a nice caster split going on, and thats easily fixable with the adjustable tension rods.
camber would be nice around -1 to -1.5 degrees, not much more for any street car.-chet
Yeah, I run 2.5 deg. in the rear but I also drive the **** out of my car and it's lowered too far for me to correct it for the time being.
And yeah... I also thought they should have adjusted the caster. More than likely they didn't know how to use the adj. arms or they just didn't think about it since caster doesn't affect tire wear nor does it cause a pull. Not to mention on most cars it's not adjustable.
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WongFeiHung
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Q45tech
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- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Static numbers are those that the factory determined with new components would be correct traveling 55 mph down the road.
You MISSET the alignment so that it is correct travel down the road.
With worn bushings or bent arms/components the exact center of the factory range may not be correct for YOUR CAR!
Without special exotic sensors tied to suspension at speed to measure tire slip [toe errors] steering pressure [caster], tire temp [camber]............you must rely on the look of the tire tread and some quick temperature measurements to determine the real correct values on a used car.
Always make sure your weight is in the drivers seat so the camber change can be zeroed out!
You MISSET the alignment so that it is correct travel down the road.
With worn bushings or bent arms/components the exact center of the factory range may not be correct for YOUR CAR!
Without special exotic sensors tied to suspension at speed to measure tire slip [toe errors] steering pressure [caster], tire temp [camber]............you must rely on the look of the tire tread and some quick temperature measurements to determine the real correct values on a used car.
Always make sure your weight is in the drivers seat so the camber change can be zeroed out!
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Caster offsets the vector forces [car weight] from the vertical. Think of your shoe as a tire tread........caster forces more weight on the front of the shoe [tire] vs equal weight or more weight on rear.
Caster helps the tire return to the straight ahead position [when you let go of steering wheel] at the trade off of the need for increased steering force [with power steering it doesn't matter] .
Exact equal caster is important, as it [like camber] will steer the car off the road.
What every reading you chose make sure they are the same on the same axle with your weight in the car.......assuming that how you drive [alone] if you always have a passenger then set up accordingly..............naked [noone in car] alignments asssume equal weights in all seating positions.
Light/soft springs in lux cars are depressed by your weight in driving seat, therefore the left camber increases when you sit down..........depends on how much you weight......200# = about 0.5 x0.8= 0.40 degrees more negative camber! [left front and rear]...........caster won't change nearly as much!
Caster helps the tire return to the straight ahead position [when you let go of steering wheel] at the trade off of the need for increased steering force [with power steering it doesn't matter] .
Exact equal caster is important, as it [like camber] will steer the car off the road.
What every reading you chose make sure they are the same on the same axle with your weight in the car.......assuming that how you drive [alone] if you always have a passenger then set up accordingly..............naked [noone in car] alignments asssume equal weights in all seating positions.
Light/soft springs in lux cars are depressed by your weight in driving seat, therefore the left camber increases when you sit down..........depends on how much you weight......200# = about 0.5 x0.8= 0.40 degrees more negative camber! [left front and rear]...........caster won't change nearly as much!
sorry to butt in, but I have similar questions. I am getting ready to lower my ride by about 1". My (negative)camber settings are ~1 front and ~1.8 ... apparently this should throw the camb. off by 0.8 giving me ~1.8 and ~2.4 f and r respectivley. do you guys think this will increase my wear a lot or just a little bit. i just got new falkens.
Don't worry too much about the camber, as long as your toe is 0it's still ok.
BTW, My alignment spec is as follow:
Front camber -3.0 both sides (Thanks to Cusco camber plates)Caster left 6.7 right 6.8(PDM tension rod bushings and Nismo lower arm bushings)Toe 0.12 and 0.13 (close to zero)
Rearcamber -2 eventoe 0.11 even
Well, I do have both adj rear upper control arms and rear toe control arms though.
Later
BTW, My alignment spec is as follow:
Front camber -3.0 both sides (Thanks to Cusco camber plates)Caster left 6.7 right 6.8(PDM tension rod bushings and Nismo lower arm bushings)Toe 0.12 and 0.13 (close to zero)
Rearcamber -2 eventoe 0.11 even
Well, I do have both adj rear upper control arms and rear toe control arms though.
Later
that camber is excessive, seriously. unless your running a road coarse with tire build to handle the stress of that alignment spec, theres no reason to run that much negative camber.also, you dont want 0 toe, please inform yourself before telling someone that -3 degrees camber an 0 degree toe is "ok". in fact, for racing, your camber reading should be reversed...but thats another matter. also .12 toe is NOT close to zero, not at all.. .05 is close to zero.
geeze.-chet
geeze.-chet
Well, not to argue something here,but I do lots of road course events as well as drifting events.All my statement is based on either my personal experience or lots of West Coast Top Drifters.
Belive it or not, negative camber does not hurt tires, it's the wrong toe setting hurts tires.
Have a good day, pal.
Later
Belive it or not, negative camber does not hurt tires, it's the wrong toe setting hurts tires.
Have a good day, pal.
Later
please dont act like your talking to someone who doesnt know what im talking about. I was respectfull.
myself, dori-dori, smithsr, ITA240sx, c-kwick and dennis(q45 tech) had a long draw out discussion about the dynamics of camber and toe and caster a while ago, suffice to say, anything over 2 degrees is far overkill for any street car with street tires.
sure, for track events, with competition tires, you may want to run more camber based on your roll center and observed contact patch roll(makring the sides of tires durning the event/testing)
camber does hurt tires, because when you drive straight, if you have the tire leaning in(negative) a proportinate ammount of weight is shifter to the inside edge of the tire, versus toe angle, where if you have too much negative toe, the inner edge of a tire is quite literally being scrubbed allong the ground if its bad enough..
and your camber settings are correct for drifting, but you probably know that. I dont think many people want a drift setup when driving on the street. you should seriously try less positive toe, you'd be suprised how well the car would respond to steering inputs with less toe in.
anyways, suffice to say, I really do appreciate the input, its nice to know what you run for a drift car.-chet
myself, dori-dori, smithsr, ITA240sx, c-kwick and dennis(q45 tech) had a long draw out discussion about the dynamics of camber and toe and caster a while ago, suffice to say, anything over 2 degrees is far overkill for any street car with street tires.
sure, for track events, with competition tires, you may want to run more camber based on your roll center and observed contact patch roll(makring the sides of tires durning the event/testing)
camber does hurt tires, because when you drive straight, if you have the tire leaning in(negative) a proportinate ammount of weight is shifter to the inside edge of the tire, versus toe angle, where if you have too much negative toe, the inner edge of a tire is quite literally being scrubbed allong the ground if its bad enough..
and your camber settings are correct for drifting, but you probably know that. I dont think many people want a drift setup when driving on the street. you should seriously try less positive toe, you'd be suprised how well the car would respond to steering inputs with less toe in.
anyways, suffice to say, I really do appreciate the input, its nice to know what you run for a drift car.-chet
Exar-Kun,
Sorry my bad, I did not realise original post was for street setup.
As for my setting, over the past 2 and half years, I am still trying to find out what the best setting for my driving style. As a matter of fact, I was going to try less front camber in front says 2-2.5 degree to help both braking and initial turning in for cornering. However, since my car isn't lower enough. I constantly experienced excessive tires wear on outter edges. Well, it's bit hard to get a perfect balance point. Perhaps, I should seriously thinking about a set of coilover shocks.
Anyway, thank you for your comment.Have a nice day.
Sorry my bad, I did not realise original post was for street setup.
As for my setting, over the past 2 and half years, I am still trying to find out what the best setting for my driving style. As a matter of fact, I was going to try less front camber in front says 2-2.5 degree to help both braking and initial turning in for cornering. However, since my car isn't lower enough. I constantly experienced excessive tires wear on outter edges. Well, it's bit hard to get a perfect balance point. Perhaps, I should seriously thinking about a set of coilover shocks.
Anyway, thank you for your comment.Have a nice day.
-chet